break the law
 

How many people in here follow the PGC manual to the T when it comes to the laws?Like shooting hrs. Would you shoot a nice buck before the shooting hrs if it was right in front of your stand and walking away from you?And how many hunters stays in the woods hunting and looking for deer up to 20 to 30 minutes after shooting hrs when you can still see 100+ yrds from the snow on the ground?

RE: break the law
 

Well I for one had a bear in my scope at 35 yds opening day. I had a bear permit and let him walk. There was still 45 min. till shooting time. Couldn't brag about an animal that was poached. But iI hear shooting all the time before legal hours.

RE: break the law
 

I'll be honest...I don't follow the hours to the T. I mean, in the morning the times are pretty close to when it is safe to shoot, BUT in the evening...they really need to go 1/2 hour past sundown. It's just riduculus how early it is. I don't go shooting off way before, but I mean if its only 10 min or so, then I'll take the shot.

Basically, I go by when I feel I can make an ethical shot that is not impeded by the light conditions. Honestly, I really don't even pay attention the the times during archery. But during rifle, I'll look them up to make sure that I'm stopping pretty close to them. Even after the hours end I still end up sitting in my stand till dark, just to see what I see.

I really think thay should go to 1/2 hour past sundown...the timeswould be much better that way.

RE: break the law
 

I agree 308 on your ethical shotand on it should be 20 to 30 min after sundown. Jerseyhunter,How canyou see a bear at 35yrds away in the morn at 45 min before shooting time with no snow on the ground when the morning hrs are close to when can actual see the game at? You got a night vision scope? But you still have lots of day time after the end of shooting hrs up to 35 minutes atleast till you can't see 100 yrds.And that is adding the +minutes for your region also. I think alot of people don't want to admit it on here because they lectured other people on the law and don't want to be hipocrits for them breaking a law also.But,I was just curious how many people on here was honest and would admit to it. JerseyHunter I think your full of BS. If I seen a bear at 35yrds away before shooting hrs he would have lead flying at him if he gave me a good placement shot.And most people who have never bagged a bear and hunted them and know how hard they are to even see one would of takeing that shot.Unless you are one of them who gets one every other year. But I would say 99% of the hunters in Pa. would of takein that shot on that bear if they could of seen it before shooting hrs.Especially at 35 yrds away.

RE: break the law
 

I also havehunted and have shot game after shooting hrs.But the shot was there and it presented good placement of my bullet.
I would of shot that bear before shooting hrs. if I seen it.I would still be proud of it and be boasting and bragging about it even before or after shooting times.Not with a spotlight of course.
I would be braggin about one if I hit it with my truck and killed it. LOL

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i have shot after hours and before if that bear was near me he would have been dead

RE: break the law
 

Follow the rules. It is easier in the long run.

RE: break the law
 

I don't think it's the brightest thing to admit to breaking the law, or to admit to potentially breaking them if the situation presented itself.

RE: break the law
 

Use your judgement!;)You want to be asportsman or just beconsiderd as a shooter?Your call!!

RE: break the law
 

Well said Southern Pig man.:D

RE: break the law
 

I probably would not knowingly violate the laws on legal shooting hours, but I wouldn't look down on or turn in someone who shot a little before or a little after legal shooting hours. My opinion is I have too much to lose by breaking such laws, even if I don't think it is a big deal and a poor law. I wouldn't want them, for example, to confiscate the rifle that my father built because I used it in a hunting game violation.

Where I hunt deer, Oklahoma, shooting hours extend from 30 minutes before sunrise to 30 minutes after sundown. This seems a very good standard. I find at 30 minutes after sundown I really can't see well enough any more (I can see well enough through my scope but not with my unaided eye), which is when I quit hunting. I took a doe this year at 20 minutes after sundown and my first deer three years ago was taken at 15 minutes after sundown -- legal, as I said above, in my hunting area in Oklahoma but is sounds like it would be illegal in some of your hunting areas.

RE: break the law
 

Here is another perspective. About 10 years ago, I was sitting at my stand around 630 am. My stand was located in the pine tress where it is a little darker that the open woods. Anyways around 655, I heard some deer coming. I could hear them getting closer and closer. So I got my gun ready, I could see them running on the edge of the hill. I pulled my gun up and as I saw the silouhette come into view on my scope. I squeezed the trigger and I saw the white from the belly of the deer. I saw the fire come out the end of my gun. Right then and there, I was scared out of my wits. I knew I had hit a deer and it was down. But was the risk that important? I mean what supposed it was a couple of hunters walking? I had to fill out my tag with a flashlight. I had to gut the deer with a flashlight. I know shooting hours a guideline but to me the real shooting begins when I can see the fluorescent orange on my jacket very clearly( and I mean bright orange not orange). Even if it is after shooting hours beginit can still be dark enough to not being able to see your target clearly. I know we cant use the "seeing the orange very clearly on your jacket reasoning" but it is alot better explaining to the police how you mistaked a hunter for a deer.

RE: break the law
 

The arbitrary shooting hours in Pa are ridiculous. Especially in the afternoon. They also dont consider cloud cover. Some days, if we want to stay legal,we have to virtually quit in broad daylight. On the other hand, on some some cloudy or rainy mornings, it's still not safe to shoot a half hour after legal time. It's a law that can make a poacher out of an otherwise responsible hunter if he happens to forget his watch[:'(]

RE: break the law
 

I think the hours set for legal shooting time are set for 2 reasons. Safety and game conservation. It sounds like in some states, shooting time ends at sunset for deer. Any hunter knows that a deer can be shot easily 15 -20 mins after sunset. There's plenty of light. I would think that states with these rules are trying to keep the kill down for one reason or another.

As for shooting too early, the same apply's. If you are gun hunting, there's enough light to shoot 1/2 before sunrise on a close shot even with the worse weather. Shooting time should be 1/2 before and after sunrise for deer if safety is really the concern.

Now this year during DE shotgun. I heard shooting 1 full hour before sunrise and 45 mins after sunset. There was no moon this day. You are shooting at silloettes. No excuse for that.

Im with jersey on one thing, I couldnt look at a mount or remember a deer I killed without feeling guilty. About 10 years ago, I drew a Refuge stand on public ground that I hunt. It was a clear, full moonlite night. I didnt even need the flashlight to get to the stand. As I headed to the stand, I came around the corner of a field and there was this deer standing there, 15 yds away. The 1st thing I thought was, 'who let that horse out in this field?' If my gun was loaded, I could easily killed him. But, I never would have been proud of it and I dont need deer meat that bad.

So, to each their own. But remember breaking the law makes all hunters look bad, not just yourself. Keep it in mind next time you are tempted by the dark side. ;)

RE: break the law
 

Pa is a a half hour before sunrise (ok) till sunset (stupid). It certainly aint because they want to keep the kill down here!

I agree that a half hour after sunset is reasonable.

Oh, and how about this for stupid? Illinois is a half hour before sunset till a half hour after for bowhunting but if you hunt the gun season you'd better read the fine print.... Quitting time changes to sunset!

RE: break the law
 

Quote:

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ORIGINAL: aldo88

I mean what supposed it was a couple of hunters walking?....I know shooting hours a guideline but to me the real shooting begins when I can see the fluorescent orange on my jacket very clearly( and I mean bright orange not orange).......I know we cant use the "seeing the orange very clearly on your jacket reasoning" but it is alot better explaining to the police how you mistaked a hunter for a deer.

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Exactly what I was going to say.

You have to remember that you can't depend on fellow hunters to follow the laws to the T either. "Naa, don't worry about it. Just put your hunter orange on when you get to your stand."

Just think about all the things thatlook like deer at dawn/dusk. Then add movement and the inability to see the hunter orange. Especially if they're walking downthe heavily used deer trail in thick brush where you're planning on seeing a deer. I hunt a shotgun only state and don't even want to think about brush busting buckshot flying before legal hours while I'm making my way to my stand.

I'm no saint though. The first year I hunted with a bow I had the perfect setup. I was on posted land. I did my homework and new exactly what trail this big buck was going to be using at first light. I was hunting from a makeshift ground blind and there was virtually no wind. Then about 30 minutes before legal shooting time (which makes it an hour before sunup) I heard it. The deer was making his way towards me. I brought my bow up and got ready for the shot. I could barelysee my pins (no tritium at the time) but I knew I could shoot instinctively if needed. Then he came out intoa small clearing where he had to cross a path about15yards in front of me. He wasbroadside with no idea I was there. This was a mature buck with a large rack and I could see his silhouette perfectly except for a portion of his vitals because of the tree that wasbehind him. I knew exactly where the vitals were though so I knew I could make the shot.This was going to be my first wallhanger. So I drew back and let the arrow fly. I immediately heard my arrow ricocheting through the tree's and the buck took off snorting away. Icouldn't believeI missed such a clear shot at such a close range.

Come sunup I realized a few things.

1. Being inexperienced and full of buck fever I made the mistake of putting my 40 yard (backyard fun) pin on him by mistake and shot over him.

2. The tree that was behind him wasactually about 2 feet in front of him after reviewing his tracks.

3.Just because the land is posted doesn't mean someone isn't going to teara fewsigns down and walk in.

4. If someone had walked in with their climber just before me and I didn't hear them that arrow could have been embedded in their chest.

5. If there was someone in a climber that was as inexperienced as I was I could have been the one with the arrow in my chest.

6. An arrow can be just as lethal as a bullet in some situations.

Sorry for the longwinded post, but if itmakes just 1 first year hunter think twice then it was worth it.

EDIT: Just wanted to add that I was about 17 at the time and new to the hunting world in general. Don't want you all to think this was last year or something because I said it was the first year I hunted with a bow.



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RE: break the law
 

I'd bet there isn't a PA hunter here that can say that they follow all the laws to a T...the little game book we get doesn't even scratch the surface of some of the ridiculous laws PA has.....I've seen the master book, it's unbelievable and needs a law degree to desipher most of it....

I'll sum it up from a quote from a member here in the past....

What is lawful isn't necessarily ethical and what is illegal isn't necessarily unethical.

I follow all the game laws I am aware of but following them to a T....isn't realistic.

RE: break the law
 

If you can clearly make out the animal in the scope and it is 20 min. before shooting time, I would say go for it. I start heading out when I see the last ray of light hit the tops of the trees. So I don't have much to say about that end of daylight.

RE: break the law
 

LOL, I had read this post last night and didn't really think much about it until this morning. I was walking to my stand about 40 minutes before sunrise when about 40 yards ahead was the sillouette of a deer eating apples under an apple tree. We have lots of snow so I could see her pretty clearly but not clearly enough to be confident that I wasn't looking at a yearling or a button buck. I just stood there until she finally figured out that I was there and left. Tonight as I was sitting in my stand I decided to climb down when I felt that it was too dark to besafe orconfident that I would actually be shooting what I thought I would be shooting. I looked at my watch and it was about 30 minutes after "legal" sunset. After this I got to thinking about this thread. I guess my opinion is that the sunrise hours seem to be fair, but the sunset hours are too early. I like the idea of 1/2 hour after sundown.

I just thought it was funny that I ran into this today after reading about it yesterday.:)

RE: break the law
 

There was atleast 4inches of snow on the ground, and wheather you believe me or not I don't care. Just cause you are unethical enough to shoot it doesn't mean I am. And I have seen this bear twice on the same path the past month and also probably last year as it was smaller then.
And you say 99% of the Pa hunters would have taken the shot.[:'(]You Pa .hunters crack me up with all you bitchen. I'd never let you hunt with me that's for sure.



Here's my post from another site.


Now that I know someone wants some I'll go tag it.
Had one at 35 yds this morning, put the scope on it and watched it amble away. Oh this was at 5:45 and shooting time wasn't till 6:34. Looked nice against the white snow. All during bow season he comes by at 7.

RE: break the law
 

Just another copy andpaste as of today.

More from the birdie....

the count by 2:30 p.m. yesterday was 280 bears and the final tally will be on the division's website by noon sunday.
two bears that aren't in the count will cost two poachers money. they got them on newark watershed land, the state got a tip, and one guy with a revoked license got seven charges; his pal, who had a license and bear permit, was charged with failing to check it in and the butcher where they brought the bears faces charges for unlawfully possessing them.


Our Co's do their jobs.

RE: break the law
 

Funny I was just thinking about this last night. In MD its 30 min after sunset. Well with the 6" of snow we had yesterday I was hunting in the evening, and told my wife Id be home at a certain time based on the sunset+30 min. I didnt have my watch with me, and only a cell phone tucked away in my pocket. I hunted until I couldnt see, and then climbed down. When I got on the ground my cell phone vibrated and I saw it was my wife, she was wondering where I was at because I usually call her when I get back to my truck. I hadnt realized that with the snow on the ground it was over 45 min past sunset (actually almost an hour). Luckily I didnt shoot anything so dont label me as a poacher, I just didnt realize what time it was. We need to have rules for the idiots, but in certain circumstances there is different outcomes.

RE: break the law
 

With snow being white, it reflects all light. I doubt lawmakers would go out of the way saying if there is a minimum of 2" of snow on the ground, legal hunting time is extended 40 min. (if legal hunting time ends at sunset). Because you will have guys pushing the snow on the ground thing.

RE: break the law
 

i think in the matter of safety a half hour before sunrise and a half hour after sunset is reasonable. i talked to a guy who hunted in germany and it seems there hunting education is so tough it allows the person who passes the course the ability to hunt at night. its all about the conditions but i dont think the states will be able to come up with good safe regulations for it. i use to shoot my bow at 3 a.m. at 20 yards in my yard all the time while waiting for my hunting partner to pick me up. for me it was easy to find the front shoulder and adjust for the outline of the deer. i dont think i could shoot game like that though under real conditions. i think part of being ethical is being able to see where the animal goes after being hit. now 10 minutes before legal shooting time during the snow and full moon is a tougher choice. what would you do? in my hunting areas it would be easy for others including rangers and game wardens to figure out who shot what where and at what time so you know what my answer would be. it wouldnt be "but officer my watch said it was legal hunt time" . the challenge and heart break is following the rules too.

RE: break the law
 

Personally, if I can't make a positive identification on what I'm shooting at. Then I'm not taking the shot. I have been in many situations where I've had deer within bow range and gun range, but I couldn't tell if they were legal. So I didn't shoot.

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Well i was wearing my 400 sq. inches of orangeout to my tree stand and when i got up in it about 15' up i took off my orange. Long story short! Game warden came (private land) and nailed me, i honestly thought it was no harm really in a treestand. Well they are suspending my license for that.

Live by the book or not at all anymore!! A sad Hunter.

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Well I think you can the decision. Like I said, if I can clearly make out the parts of the deer so I know exactly where I am shooting, then I would take the shot.

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What state you live in? And what was the reason he was doing on private property?

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I was thinking the same thing.

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most hunters here in pa.will shoot before hrs if they can see.just opposire towards dark.reason is that they have all day to get deer out of woods in morning than in evening when its dark and they are tired.

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So they are to tired to get out of a treestand when shooting time is up?:D

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in archery they will shootat dusk but when its 20 degrees and windy and tired from sitting in treestand all day, no, they will pass most of time.

RE: break the law
 

I was thinking exactly the same thing as you. If it came down to me losing my hunting rights over this, I would be looking for a good attorney to fight it. Sorry, but I didn't sign away my constitutional rights when I purchased a hunting license and I doubt that you did either. If they get me at the road (public property) that is one thing but if they trespass on my land to make sure I am doing things by the book, they better lawyer up!

RE: break the law
 

turkey jerky and diji200,

I have know i idea what he was doing there! i had asked him and he said normal checks. The land is private and it's a gunclub! I do know the club has a couple of homeowners thatare not happy with the gun ranges but who knows. Maybe that was it. :(