Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Alright I know this is a sore topic with some and I am probably opening up a can of worms here but here goes. There has been a report by several hunters in the Hamburg, NY area that they have seen a mountain lion in Hamburg. It appears a large animal also attacked a bow hunters deer decoy. Now I am not saying I believe it or not but here is a copy of the news article reported by television station WKBW Chanel 7 in Buffalo.
More signs of possible mountain[/b] lion[/b] in southtowns

www.wkbw.com/Story.aspx%3FNStoryID%3D7559+mountain+lion+hamburg ,+ny&hl=en]http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:OjLz7tafsUoJ:www.wkbw.com/Story.aspx%3FNStoryID%3D7559+mountain+lion+hamburg ,+ny&hl=en[/url]



"Nov 11, 2005 - There hasn't been a recent sighting, but there's another sign that something unusual is wondering around in the southtowns - possibly a cougar or a mountain[/b] lion[/b].

A deer decoy used for archery target practice in the woods in Hamburg[/b] appears to have been attacked by some kind of large animal The Erie County SPCA is investigating and the experts say it certainly appears from all the evidence and sightings so far that some kind of animal not normally seen here has moved in.

“Whatever hit this, hit it really hard, and would probably have had to get up to speed to do it,” said Joel Thomas, a wildlife expert.

Last week a group of hunters claimed they saw a big cat in the woods near the Village Green Nursery in Hamburg[/b]. So far no ones been able to positively identify the animal. "


So what have you guys in the southern tier by seeing?

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I live in the southern tier and have yet to see anything but coyote's and bobcat's. This subjecthas been debated before....

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I guess one of the ones the Pa. Game Commission stocked got across the line into New York. Sorry about that.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Like I said I realize that this subjected has been beaten to death before in the past. I thought maybe since it was reportedly seen by some hunters maybe I'd get a response from some one who had seen the cat since this is a hunting forum. I grew up in Hamburg and my Mom and my brother and his family still live there. My guess is it was probably a big bobcat that has wandered up here from the southern teir.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Well I hunt in the Catskills and I have never seen a mountain lion, but my brother and a friend of ours swear to God that they saw one. I know plenty of people who say they have seen a cougar also. I have seen a couple bobcats, but that is about it.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I don't know about Western NY, but on Nov. 14th WPTZ Channel 5 out of Plattsburgh, NY carried a story about a Mountain Lion that was captured on tape by a Homeland Security Camera near the border. Here's the link to see the broadcast story.
http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/index.html

Scroll down the page and near the bottom on the left is the link Nov. 14th Mountain Lion sighting?

It might not be 100% conclusive, but it is damn convincing to say the least. Just thought I'd add a little more fuel to the fire:)

Mr. .45-70

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Watch out. I hear Garfield is on the loose.:D

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I made a post over the summer about a mountain lion that my brother had seen while fishing the Elton Creek in Delevan, NY. About a month later there was a mountain lion spoted in the sam general area as the one he spotted.

Openning week of bow season in NY - In West Valley, NY I arrowed a doe and I lost her in the swamp behind my new house. It got too dark to track her and I figured I would come back and find her in the morning. I got back to the house and got in the shower and my fiance came home from the store and called me outside saying she just heard a mountain lion behind the house. I told her she was nuts and then heard the same thing two more times and had to agree with her that it didn't sound like anything other than a mountain lion. Next day I found my doe and both hind quarters were gone completely.

I went to the local Taxadermist and Archery Shop in Springville, NY - S&S Taxadermist and taked to a couple of the employees there about people seeing mountain lions and what they have herd and it turns out that they have herd plenty. Two of the employees have seen and herd mountain lions in the area themselves and said that the dog catcher has reported seeing a mountain lion on Beach tree Rd. Springville, NY and that a hunter reported seeing a deer carcase that had been drug up into a tree on Cole Rd Springville, NY - Both of these locations are within about 5 miles of my house.

A week ago I was out hunting behind the house and found a set of cat tracks that were the size of my hand in the mud along a logging rd behing my house - There were no claw marks that would make me think that they were dog or coyote tracks. I hear more and more about mountain lions every year in the southern tier and run into more and more people that claim to have seen them personally. How can all these cases keep getting put off as mistaken identities - I just wish that someone would pop one of these animals and calls channels 2, 4, and 7 first and then the DEC after the news crews are there taking pictures. I could care less weather they are around or not but i know what I heard and I trust what my brother saw was a mountain lion and that keeps me looking over my shoulder alot more when I am in the woods - I don't think one would attack a person just for the hell of it but its an erie feeling walking home in that dark down the same trail that I herd one on.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Did you see prints near your doe? Normally you would because of the surgical precision, they will often use their teeth to cut the hindquarters. In order to do that, you'll find cat paws with claw marks, as they are extended to push against the ground for leverage to finish the complete sepearation of the animal's hindquarters.

It's funny that you mention about somone popping one of these. You'd think it'd be done and well documented by now. All you see of the "physical evidence" are DEC cover-up theories. Other than that, there is no real proof at all. The people that supposedly shoot a cougar would not just be "let go" by the DEC if they were covering it up. You always hear the "My friend lost a cow, and it was a cougar, so I shot it, then I called the DEC. They came and took the cougar away, and now deny it was a cougar. Yet they did nothing to me to try to cover it up, letting me spew this crazy story without evidence." Right, Okay.:eek:

There might always be a captive release or escape around, that is not deniable. But a naturally sustaining population seems unlikely with as much firm proof as bigfoot has given us. Yet there's supposedly many more of the cougars in NY compared to the low suspected numbers of bigfoots.:D

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Snow is coming to N.Y.. With all of the Mountain Lion sightings in N.Y. there should plenty of tracks, so be sure to take a picture of them. A better idea would be, get some dogs onthe tracksand when you treethe huge cat,take plenty of pictures and video. About the cover-up theory...The federal government can not even keep secrets with people that are sworn to secrecy, so how is it that the DEC can keep a secret withemployees, who are not sworn to secrecy and live in the communities where these mountain lions are said to be released. It is ridiculous.Maybe the FBI and CIA, etc, should get some training tips from the DEC. www.pbase.com/mlo3135127

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I am a firm beliver that there are at least a couple mountain lions in the southern tier especially in Cattaraugus county seems like that's where I here the most about sightings. I do however belive that more than half of the stories out there are people jumping on the band wagon and talking alot of BS. But I'll extend an invitation to anyone out there to go out and go predator calling at night with me - I know I am not going alone at all this year from what I have seen and herd. I don't mind a coyote running in on me and blasting it with the 12gauge but I'm not so sure a mountain lion running in on me would be the ideal situation.

My brother goes to finger lake community college and he is in the environmental science program there. He said that about a week ago there was some type of forum that was closed to the public - invite only and supposably had something to do with all the mountain lion sightings that have been popping up around NY. He said that he tried to get one of the professors to get him in but he wasn't able to and said that there were DEC officers from all over on campus that had been invited. He is trying to find out more on what the details of the meeting were about but I have not talked to him in a couple of days.

Phade - when I found my deer there had been a pretty good wind storm that night and the leaves came off most of the trees and covered the ground. I didn't really look for tracks and the ground wasn't that soft in the area I found my doe so i'm not sure if it would have left tracks anyways. I did fid those other tracks along the logging rd though and they definately looked to be big enough to be lion tracks. I really need to start carrying a camera with me in the woods and in the car though. I see alot of really cool things that I would like to get photos of not just having to do with mountain lions. i saw one of the biggest bucks I have ever seen on my way to work they other day and over the summer saw a bald eagle about 20 ft of the rd sitting in a tree. Not things everyone gets to see everyday.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I saw the news tape on the mountain lion citings and the cat in the video was a mountain lion.I have heard they have been cited near the thruway near where I live.I can't get out in the woods but if I see one near the road,I will try to get a picture.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Bottom line...no wild mountain lions in NY state. Captive reared and accidental releases or escaped animals, MAYBE. No DEC conspiracies either. Before folks run these silly rumors, they ought to use their heads. This would be a liability nightmare. I know JHoffman and Rwalter63 are honest and not starting trouble, and Im not aiming my comments at these good guys. But the whole scenario is silly at best. Big cats drag kills and/or carrion off some distance and also at least partially bury it. Thats just what lions do. Coyotes, even just 2 or 3, will strip a deer overnight. Like many canines, they eat like gluttons, and literally gorge themselves with as much as they can carry.

Another thing...they say it "appears" a large animal attacked a decoy. Hmmm, could it have been...a buck? They do it every year, slash them to bits with antlers (look like claw marks) and knock them over and spread them across the yard or field where theyre left unattended. We see this every year.

By the way, wanna see the truth with some of these "witnesses"? Ask them what a mountain lion sounds like. Then ask them what a grey fox, young horned owl, and birds like great blue and green herons sound like while on the roost at night. Now theres some animals that can make some very loud, very unusual vocalizations at night.

Outside of the odd captive animal thats been let go or escaped, we just dont have em! Heck, and I for one wish we did!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

what i dont get is people are all saying there are no wild ones, they must be captive ones that were released or escaped. so what?
the fact is they are still out there in the wild either way.
I do think a DEC stocking and coverup theory doesnt hold water, but i think they are out there.

But at the same time, I think its pretty closed minded for people to deny any possibility that one could have come into the area on its own from up north. There are always extremes in any case. It is a possibilty that they are out there, and could have come naturally, just not in huge secret populations that nobody seems to get on video.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

mountain lions don't drag thier kills up into trees.

leopards do that, and i'm pretty sure there arent too awful many of them running around NY:eek:

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

From where up north?

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Bill,

Thanks for the support, I am not trying to stir up trouble. I don't believe that there are wild mountian lions in WNY either. I do think it is possible that one was released or escaped and that is the main reason I posted this. I have family and friends who live in Hamburg and was just curiuos to see what people have seen and heard. I didn't see the video of this cat they supposed caught on film in Hamburg only the news story. On another note of wild rumors I don't believe I ran accross a hunter that lives in Springville with weekend and he said that someguy he knowskilled a 100+ lb wolf and that they had a photo of it next to a deer that it had just taken down. My guess is that they couldn't guess wieght and it was a large coyotte (possible with some wolf DNA in it.) . Eastern coyotes according to what I have read are starting to show signs of wolf DNA.

Thanks again

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

RWalter, I saw that "wolf" pic too...last year! In fact, the time I saw it the text said it was from Hilton NY and examined by C.O. Doe...a friend and neighbor of mine. Of course, it wasnt true, and just another fab photo. As for moose's comments about dragging kills up trees, I hope he wasnt referring to MY comments, I mentioned drags, but no trees. Anyone with even basic knowledge of mt lions knows all about cats dragging large game away from a kill site and covering it with ground litter.

I guess we all would love to have a lion sighting, or a wolf, or just something thats not the norm, if for no other reason then to be able to say "what if?" Heck, every year we supposedly break the world record deer around here, only to find out later it wasnt even close. Its kind of fun in a way, really. But, things like bigfoot and others just doesnt happen enough. I think if we had the high deer populations of the nineties during the seventies, before so much land had been developed, maybe cats WOULD have expanded to the northeast from their current range. With all the exotic game breeders Ive heard of, getting pinched by new regs, I dont doubt a few were released or escaped. I just know better then to think the state could legally stock them.

By the way, I doubt anyone feels youre stirring up trouble, just pointing out an article on this stuff.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

i believe they are out there, ive never seen one my self , but ive talked to a few people who are reputable , and would absolutly know what they were looking at.the sightings were around the n.y. city resovoir area . and an unnamed semi populated area . wild or released or stray pets or whatever a couger is a cougar!!!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

With as many people as there are getting into the exotic animal business do any of you think it is possible that enough of these big cats were released not by the DEC but by people that got in over their heads with caring for these animals that there could be a breeding population of these animals in isolated areas?
I read an article recently about the same problem in the everglades with people releasing reticulated pythons that got way bigger than expected and became a danger to the owners. Their is not a sustainable population in the everglades and it has wildlife biologists worried about what effects it could have on the ecosystem down there. There was a picture with the article of a 16' python that had eaten a don't quote me on this but I think it was a 9' aligator - they both killed each other - The python actually swallowed the gator but before dying the gator ripped open the side of the snake - The problem is that the gator was the dominate predator in the glades and now they are not sure which of the two are going to win that battle in the long run.
Another article related to this one had to do with people releasing captive raised mountain lions over in England and there is now supposably a breeding population that is causing a problem with livestock over there.

Just a thought - it gets off the DEC conspiracy theroy bit - and gives a different perspective on things.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Well, thats what Ive been saying right along! Ive been told Im wrong in other posts, but lets just say I know what I know. Remember, I too hold some breeder permits in NY state too. Either way, I think having big cats out there would be cool, I wish the country here were a bit bigger for them.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

i live in allegany Co. NY , late Aug. 6:30ish pm, woodchuck huntin with 14yr. old. it's hot out he'd played all day , sweaty ,smelly,he want's to sit alone by a round bale, about 150yds away.
can't sit still , 15 min. walkin back to me by my van as i watch his hunt.
he gets 10yds. from van ,then!!!!!!!!!!, i spot something moving on a ditch line(uncut hay on ditch , cut hay on both sides of ditch ) that runs into a thick woodlot. put the binocs on the area , think i see poss. bobcat,seen them before no big deal, then cousins 2 dogs show up checkin wooddy hole , then movement in the ditch comes closer to the cut hay field,still can't confirm what's there, suddenly a adult WOLF ,yes WOLF, comes out of the woods into cut field, goes 20ydish ,he spots the same movement i'm seeing!!! wolf suddenly bolts away from the movement, tail between legs,and cleared out of that field in a heart beat!!!!!!! meantime dogs work up towards ditch. then the movement put it's head out of the uncut hay.yell to kid, get in quick!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!there's a mountlion on the ditch!!!!!!! the cat was watchin the dogs, but the dogs finally see my van and start running down to see me .( the dogs just love to see me???)
the cat moves back into the hay , gone, (they blend very well in dead hay)about 30sec. later , cat moves into cut field on other side of ditch,stalking,slow and low,lifting his head to smell the wind ,crawlin right to the bale the kid was just at!!!!!!!!!!!! still slow crawlin, smellin , HUNTING , gets to bale , loses the kids scent, comes out of stalk mode and starts to move out across cut field in a gallop. best i could i made a cat growl , cat stops on a dime, looks all around, starts movin kinda sideways, lookin back my way, i call once more , cat stops , looks around again, then just took off to the woods on other side of field.(about 4 min.total )
got home called NYSDEC, asked lots of ques. , they said , we never released wolves or big cats!!! i said to them, that's what you said about the cyotes and look at the prob. with them !!! then i hit 'em with lower lic. sales, higher deer pop., (insurance) deer collisions claims. i told them they won't admit introducing these deer prayin animals so they won't be liable after someone gets attacked, then they said we'll have our superviser call and talk to you. they never did!!!!!!!!
5 days later cat was spotted by highway dept. employee 'bout 3 miles away.

don't beleive if you don't want to , but in the last 2yrs spotted 5 wolves , and yes i do know the diff. between cyotes,or coydogs, and a wolf!! HAD WITNESSES ON ALL SIGHTINGS,ONE A LONG TIME TRAPPER!!!

remember; THE HARDIST THING TO OPEN IS A CLOSED MIND !!! Cats
have a 150sqmil. range, and consume 1 adult deer per week on aver.

i've watched this site for 7mo. but this subject made me join to speak out!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

HOLY BRAIN DAMAGE, BATMAN!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

any pics?

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

sorry guy's , kid's 22 , my 222 and binocs were fresh outta film !!

but i did carry a camera everytime after till it got to cold for my eq.

never carried a camera before this when hunting . always preferd to shoot my game with BULLETS , just think they preform better , atleast for me they do .

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

An adult Cougar must make a deer kill once every ten days. I'm shocked that no kill sites have been reported with all these sightings.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

BC,a adult wolf and a mountain lion at the same time? COough cough BS!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

charlie i was wondering when you were going to add to this thread . I was beging to think you gave up on computers

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

to charliep (brain)

please hunt western ny , and don't ever look behind you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

deer # are down , would like too feed what many who LIVE here , have and still see , something new to the menu !!!!!!!

and by the way to all you CLOSED MIND PEOPLE , a member in a hunting group fired 2 shots thanksgiving morning in stueben co. , at a MOUNTANLION , wanted it dead to show NYSDEC!!! no hits.

so don't open your mind to the cats or wolves , no biggy to me or all of us who live here who do get to see them !!!!! 44 years myself.

even an area paper had a 4x8 in. articale from the NYSDEC with the headlines " MEET YOUR NEW NIEGHBOR " basicly telling you what to do if you incounter one !!!

cough,cough , you guys probably think the world is still flat; surprise it's not !!!!!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Hundreds of similar stories and no hits in them either and nobody ever has a camera - even those claiming multiple sightings. Like Charlie and others, I am still waiting for the FIRST picture that is not from an email chain letter or any verifiable proof.

Got to admit the lion and wolf together is a real tough one to swallow, especially lacking any real proof of either. Now if bigfoot was chasing them, I could see it.;)

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

No just giving up on someone actually being able to prove their sightings.

I just had to comment on the wolf and Cougar at the same time, sighting.

Guess I'm just to closed minded to believe it.

I was attacked once but luckily my space ship beamed me up just in time.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

as for the picture deal , most people use guns when hunting , you won't see pic. till one does get shot !

i didn't shoot at the cat or wolf , i use my brain when hunting , in this area i live in , it's called " endangered " by NYSDEC !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


FINES & LOSE YOUR LIC. DUH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

as for seeing a cat & wolf at the same time , we have a big cyot. prob. around here , WOLVES DON'T LIKE THEM AND DO KILL THEM WHEN EVER THEY CAN , helps get rid of 'em

now i can say , SORRY ,I shared my son & my exper. with some of you veiwers!!!!

peace OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

BChunter1961,
When you come on a forum and the first thing you do is start by posting a story that you must admit is pretty bizarre, you can't expect very many people to believe you. Most people would chuckle if you had just claimed to have seen just a mountain lion or just a wolf, but to see both in one outing... Come on, you've got to expect some razzing!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

well call me crazy also if ya'll want. but from 1961 when i was born ,only the crazyones like me ,reported the BLACK BEARS , CYOT'S , RIVER OTTERS , AND BALD EAGLES here in alleg.co. ,

PRAISE THE LORD !!!!!!!!!!!!!

now the CRAZY NYSDEC lets us hunt the BLACK BEARS & CYOT'S !!!!!!!

maybe take a photo of a RIVER OTTER OR BALD EAGLE !!!!!!!

ANIMALS THAT WERE NOT HERE BEFORE AND NOW ARE !!!!!!!! DOESN'T MATTER HOW THEY GOT HERE , THEY ARE HERE ,FACT.........

THINGS DO CHANGE WITH TIME !

i've said enough , so heckle me somemore , tis your right!!!!

GOOD HUNTIN TO ALL

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

just the notion that the DEC would give a mutant like yourself a hunting license terrifies me.

i am moving to Wyoming, I feel safer in the woods with mountain lions than with people like you[8D]

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Bobcats,Moutain Lions and Wolfs OH MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

Hmmm, Im 45 and I recall otters, eagles, coyotes and bears down there all along. Wolves and lions, in tandem, though? No way. Call me closed minded. Or realistic.

You know, for two years everyone has been saying how the bucks are all shot out. Yet this year guys have been shooting some real trophy bucks here, and theyre 3 and 4 years old too. My question...how the heck did they get that old...in just one year? Oh well, fun post to goof around with, guys!~

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

O.K. you're crazy!

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I admit I was firmly holding tongue in cheek on that story. But I was also amazed that it took DAYS for anyone to respond to that.

I was wondering when Bigfoot was going to be tossed into the conversation. Hell, I almost put it in there.

RE: Moutain Lion in Western NY?
 

I was talking to a friend who hunts in the Alma area in Allegany county, and he heard from someone that heard from someone who heard it from an old guy who would never lie, that about a month ago the DEC released 7 of them, thats right 7 all at once and he saw them do it. Now I just can't believe how some so called intelligent people can suck up these stories. I'll bet some western states that do have a confirmed population, may have this number in the whole state. But I guess it's deer season, and every year on this forum we go through the same discussion.