RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

well i know when i started hunting we used to go to potter county and you would see a herd of 20 -30 deer run past you . now your lucky to see deer on the mountain !

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

The population density of deer is still way to high nearly everywhere in the the state, even with the reduced numbers we are seeing today. The environment was never intended to carry a population this high. The forage is seriouly compromised and deer cannot get to their potential even when they make it to 4 and 5 years old. I hunt in Allegheny cty and am seeing as many deer as ever.The deer are definately larger and the new state record buck came from within a 1/2 mile of my home. A big part of the deer regulations are environmental and not to maximize the head, and that is fine because that helps ensure hunting will continue despite the PETAs of the world.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

Everywhere in the state the deer population is to high? That is comical. I don't want to start an argument with you but it might be like that in Allengheny County but not on game lands in 4C, 3D, 4D, I could keep going. Also,a big part of the deer regulations are enviromental? Somewhat but your forgetting about the timber industry and insurance companies. Believe me, wildlife is most definitely subservient to the timber industry. I am all for the Antler Restrictions but the Game Commission continues to make decisions based on guesses. That is not my opinion that is a simple Fact. In an article on there website they admitted that the harvest reporting system AND there estimate of deer population is flawed and incorrect. Tell me how in the world that they can continue this type of deer management(increased doe seasons) without knowing what they are really dealing with. I really think the ramifications are becoming worst as this continues

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

MY CAMP IS IN ELK COUNTY, THATS WMU 2F AND WHEN I FIRST STARTED HUNTING 14 YRS AGO IT WAS NOT UNCOMMON FOR ME AND MY DAD TO SE 50 DEER A DAY. GRANTED 99% OF THOSE DEER WERE DOES WE STILL SAW A LOT OF DEER. LAST YEAR OPENING DAY I NEVER LEFT THE WOODS ALL DAY AND ALL I SAW WAS A COUPLE GLIMPSES OF TAILS SO I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THE DENSITY IS NOT HIGH EVERYWHERE ONLY PLACE DENSITY IS HIGH IS WHERE THE CITY SLICKERS ARE IN ALLEGHENY AND IN EASTERN PA

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

Has anyone checked the record books? Has PA added to B&C P&Y more than normal?

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

Just curious as to how or what the "insurance companies" have didlee squat to do with deer populations in PA:eek:

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

It's simply another urban legend.

I've been in the insurance industry as an undependent agent for 30 years and have never once heardANY insurance comapny even mention deer inPA.

To anyone who has a hard time believing that, think of it this way...

Insurance companiesare a lot like the casino or the racetrack. They dont know who is going to cause a payout but they've have become pretty good at figuring what the payouts will be when they work with large numbers.If you win at the racetrack, you arent taking moneyfrom the track but it comes from the pool of wagerers. The track has already taken their share. If you have an insurance claim, there is little difference. Rest assured that the insurance company has taken their share. As a matter of fact, something like deer claims actually helps the insurance indutry make money. It's something they can plan for and charge for. Larger premiums mean larger profits. In the big picture, the kind of claim that causes the insurance industy worries about is the kind where they cant consistently predict the frequency or severity. Things like 9-11 or a group of natural disasters occuring in the same area in a short period of time.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

When there is more deer that means more deer causing accidents and injuries to people. This costs insurance companies. BTbowhunter makes some good points however, the insurance companies will pocket much more money if they don't have to pay out for these such accidents. You don't think insurance companies donate money to the Game commission????? On the PGC website they stated one of the reasons for the deer reduction was not only enviromental but also due to increasing amount of accidents.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

I did actuarial work many years ago for insurance companies and Btbowhunter is correct. Insurance companies pay out claims from the money they collect in premiums. If you don't pay for coverage for hitting a deer they don't pay you when you hit one. The more people worry about hitting a deer the more people buy the coverage and therefore themore money the insurance company makes. So in a wierd way, the more deer the better for the company.Granted the less people that make a claim, the less moneyis paid out but that isn't the entire picture. The company knows statistically how much money they are going to be paying out for a given area. From that they know how much to charge individuals for coverage to insure themselves of a good profit. You can bet your last dollar that if it weren't profitable for companies to cover for deer damage they simply wouldn't do it. This is just an old explination for why there are less deer that is told over the deer camp dinner table. It seems logical on the surface but it just isn't true.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

I have been doing a lot of arguing about the PGC deer management system. For the record, I would like to state that I agree with the Antler Resitrictions which are in place. Nothing has made me feel better than letting that small buck walk pass my stand.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

I DONT THINK THERE HAS BEEN A TYPICAL THAT HAS BEEN ENTERED IN THE TOP TEN ALL TIME SINCE THE 70'S. I KNOW THERE HAS BEEN NEW ARCHERY TYPICAL RECORDS BUT THE THE NUMBER ONE TYPICAL WITH A BOW RECOGNIZED NOW WOULD NOT MAKE THE TOP TEN WITH A GUN

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

I have noticed a drastic decrease in the number of doe where my camp is in 4D. I think the problem with deer population on private ground. Just this past year I have picked up 2 new pieces of private land to hunt on and i have seen more deer than this year already than I have seen in the last 4 years. Granted these properties are bowhunt only as they are too close to houses, but that is where they over population is. I have one family begging me to shoot the deer to keep them from eating their plants.

I like the antler restriction, as long as we allow kids to continue to shoot spikes as they enter into the sport.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

BT,
OK - we have at least 2 insurance guys here:). I spent 22 yrs as staff adjuster in various material damage specialties. Wish I had a $ for every deer claim I handled over the years. Could take a 2 week guided deer hunt with some small mouth fishing thrown in.

Anyway - I've never ever heard of any insurance company lobbying for deer reduction.The risk factors stay almost the same every year. X number of deer claims = a specified premium for a specified vehicle.

No offense to anybody - but the big bad insurance company conspiracy theory is some old red neck cow dung that gets slung around to get everybody foaming at the mouth.

Its all Bushes Fault:D

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

I don't know if insurance companies donate money to the Game Commission. Before you make a closed ended statement - Do they in fact donate money? My guess is Hek No they don't. Why would they. For the most part Insurance companies lobby which does not always mean money gets thrown around.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

I'm an insurance agent and I can tell you for a fact that deer are way down on the list of concerns for insurance companies.Deer claims are predictable and insurance companies can adjust premiums accordingly.It's the consumer that pays the ultimate price in the end not the insurance company.I wish I had a dollar for every time I had to explain this to someone.I could afford to take AJ and myself on a hunt to the Yukon.The insurance industry does not donate money to the PGC.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

I agree Doug. Id be willing to bet the farm that no insurance company donates to the PGC or even has ever contacted them regarding the deer population.


I did hear that Allstatefunded a coyote stocking program though;)

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

i never thought insurance co.'s had anything to do w/ the HR. but while reading an art. in outdoor life or field and stream(have them both and cant remember which one) 2 months ago it had a art. about pa deer hunting and alt fact it was about alt. and in it one of his biggest things alt was talking about was the insurance co's. how if we(PGC,hunters) didnt cut the herdand keep it down they will do something about it. now i know you all are going to say that alt isent part of the PGC, but he started this and he is still touring and talking about it. so now i dont think they were the mainreason but im starting to think they were a small part of it.. i also hunt 4D and the herd is very low. now i do like AR i think some things need to be changed w/ it for it to work right but its a big first step.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

You guys believe what you want about the insurance companies but I am telling you they have played a role over the past years in the deer management plan. The Timber industry has played even a bigger part but that is a whole other can of worms I don't want to even bring up.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

Got even a shred of proof to your claim???

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

An article on the PGC website stated that the deer management strategy was due to enviromental causes and partly due to injuries correlated from accidents caused by deer. I've said my $.02 cents on this subject and I am done with it. Good luck on Saturday BTBowhunter and the rest of you.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

Good luck to you on Saturday as well!

Yes, youare correct.The PGC does consider accidents in their strategy.
Deer car accidents are somethingthat theentire public would like to see reduced. I can see how one could assume that the insurance industry might have something to say about that but it's simply not true. In the big scheme of things it's simply much too small of an issue to even get the smallest rise fron the ins companies. Even if it were a bigger problem, deer claims are an easy profit center becuse they are statistcaly easy to predict. If you can predict a claim you can adequately charge for it. Trust me on this..... Insurance companies WILL profit from anything they can predict and subsequently charge for.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

Alt admitted from day one that no one from the insurance industry ever contacted him.I've been in this business for 15 years and can tell you for a fact that insurance companies do not get involved with game management.Go back and look at every sponsor for the audubon conferances and Alt's new wave of seminars.Not one insurance company is listed.They truly don't care.Insurance companies have to pay claims but the best claims to pay are those that are predictable.Deer claims are just that.

BTBOWHUNTER,my coyote stocking efforts are coming to a close now that archery season is here.Those buggers make to much noise in the pen behind my house anyway.

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

Got a shipment of Mountain Lions due in December and a truckload of Abbagoochees to stock in February. Want to ride along when we stock?

RE: PA hunters, what do you think of the point restriction now?
 

If those crocs take in the allegheny river the A.N.F. should regenerate just fine.