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RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

all's i can say about blaze orange is that it is a good idea to use........ but common sense goes a long ways as well. i wear it because i want to be seen by other hunters......... as for making it a mandatory law... i really dont think that needs to be done.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I have hunted in new york my entire life and regardless of if i'm on state land or private land i always wear blaze orange. Even if the other guy is responsible hunter and takes decent shots at deer i like the fact that maybe if i am in line with his shot at some distance my blaze will catch his eye before he pulls the trigger.

Now i know that if you are in thick pines or woods you can't see blaze but oftentimes travelling up route 17 in season you could see guys in blaze on the tops of the mountains in a car moving at 70 mph.

I think that it is just common sense now to wear blaze during gun season. I wouldn't want it to turn in a pennsylvania where the rules for bow season change every other week with the turkey season , earliy muzzle loader etc.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

See I am looking a little deeper. I go by the line of thought that i am more likely to see another hunter who is wearing blaze orage than one who isnt. That said, You are saying that you are more comfortable with full camo. The entire purpose of full camo is to go unseen. how can i be 100% sure that you are not in the background of my shot if you are invisible to the human eye. The only part of your argument that i partially agree with is that you shouldn't have to wear it on private land.
Although that brings int account an entirely new set of considerations. Tresspassing is typically not done in blaze oragne. Youare still taking the risk that tresspassers will not be seen or considered because you are operating under the assumption that the woods are empty. If blaze orange were mandatory it would make tresspassing that much harder.

But the fact remains teh rule isnt there for the people who spend the time to debate over it. It is there because of the people who cannot and will never be capable of conducting themselves in a manner that you or I would see fit. Those people are the reason that I wear orange and will continue to do so. You cant teach tehse people anything they are not interested in learning. Think about it for a moment. Hoow many times have you come off of state land and said to yourself.....Wow that was probably the guy spewing round after round into the forest all day. That is the guy that makes me want to wear blaze orange and i want him in a pumpkin suit.

The whole thing about hunting being a dangerous sport is nonsense. It is not a dangerous sport and it could be alot safer than it already is. But im sure you didnt mean taht it was inherently dangerous, you were just trying to make us BO advocates look bad because we fearwacko hunters. If you didnt fear these people you would be the crazy one.

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RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I understand the need to have freedom to make your own decisions. In this case though and in some others my opinion differs.

Wearing BO can be compared to wearing a seatbelt. you may think that it's a freedom of choice that you have and maybe it should be. But both decisions may also effect others.
If seatbelts do in fact save lives and you choose not to wear one and die because of it in a crash then you have effected the lives of your family. is that fair to them?

How do you think someone might feel if they were taking a shot at a deer, they thought the areabeyond was clear and wound up shooting you because you made the choice not to wear the BO. Some might be able to rationalize that it was your choice and it shouldnt bother me. I couldn't. AlsoIf the accident rate went up (more people being shot) then could it potentially give some fuel to the "no hunting" lobbiest? just a thought

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

the fact still remains that New York hunters VOLUNTARILLY wear blaze orange more than states that mandate it .Why make this a law ? How do you plan on enforceing it ? Hire more DEC agents and raise our taxes even more ?

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I bet 7 out of every 10 hunters shot in NY used to feel the same way as you.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

what is the big deal about throwing on a blaze cap or vest in gun season? why are some so addinmently against it???? can any come up with one good reason why they can't, won't, don't want to.... wear some blaze???

I understand that the initial bill was vague and didn't clarify between seasons and should of been vetoed last year. if they would clarify it to encompass gun season and gun hunters (deer/small game) and exclude bow hunters and turkeys hunters, I think it would work. I know this is a bit oversimplified (what about non-hunters and how do you distinguish between a fall turkey hunter and a small gam hunter, etc) but does seem logical to me.

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RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

cma -

You and I are gonna have some real issues if you keep comparing me to anti-gun advocates.

NY safety record is good in spite of knuckleheads who refuse to wear orange. Think of how good it be if they did.

Your posts show that you don't have a very good grasp of other NY safety facts, in addition to the value of BO. Your continuous comments about training youths .... did you know that men age 40 and higher are responsible for the majority of "mistaken for game" accidents in NY? So much for the "teach em early" theory. Its chuckleheads who have some experience in the field and think they know it all who are shooting each other.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Still no good reasons for not wearing some (a little) blaze. The "I like to blend into my surroundings" isn't a "reason". And wearing blaze has nothing to do with anti gun or anti- hunting sentiment. that's just typical propaganda nonsense.

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RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Wow this one became intense pretty quick. Should it be a law, probally not. Should we wear Blaze during gun season. Without a doubt. Every death or injury that occurs from guns is just one more point for the AntiGun nuts.
IMO Small safety issues add up to help us all.
BesidesI don't know what the big deal is about wearing it. Deer can't see it, Crazy dudes with Guns and Buck fever can.
Sounds like a win win to me.
In the end tho I do believe it should come to personal choice.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Last time I checked deer cannot see orange, only a select few animals see it. Blaze orange is a great idea during gun season and should be mandated not be voluntary. We all have families to get home too, hunting is fun, but family is life. It should be the law. During archery season that is different. How can we argue that it should not be mandated. It's safer by far. If you don't wear Blaze Orange during gun season, you shouldn't be allowed out there period. The only way I can see someone gun hunting without orange on is that they are the only people on there land and know it. I believe then it would be an option, but only then. I know some people might say it oour right to where what we want out there, we know the risks, remember this, hunting isn't a right it's a privledge!!!!!!

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

There's always blaze camo, if you're so concerned about blending in. I hunt primarily on private land in the Adirondacks, and when I'm on a drive, my hat switches from one with an orange rim to one that is all orange. Another member of my camp wears a camo blaze vest when on a drive. It's all personal preference, just like anything else one wears in the woods.

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RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

If you want your state to tell you that you must wear orange, I respect that decision. I don't agree but I respect it.

I live in a state withno sales tax, no income tax (the only state that has neither). Adults do not have to wear seat belts, you do not have to wear a motorcycle helmet and you do not have to wear orange during any hunting season.
Does my state encourage every one to wear seatbelts, helmets and wear orange in the woods, of course it does. BUT, we have our right not to. That's the big difference.

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RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Jimmy,

Live Free or Die baby.

Personally, I have never understood the motivation around making BO mandatory. I have read many excellent arguments being made here, especially where the decisions you make on wearing BO or not have a further potential impact than just upon yourself. That said, is it the government's responsibilty to protect us from ourselves? Not sure I can buy off on that one. Furthermore, what is the financial liability that the government or landowner has if someone is injured or killed by a gun wound on their property while hunting? Does BO legislation release these liabilities? I doubt it. Might help or hinder a case either way, but put the argument into the hands of an eager attorney, he'll get around it.

In NH, a guy actually sued NH Fish and Game after running into a Moose on I-93. The accident killed his wife. He claimed that it was NH F&G's responsibility to keep that moose out of the highway. During the trial, the judge asked him "sir, you hit that moose in a straight section of the interstate. You could see the animal well over a half mile away. Why didn't you avoid hitting it." The answer, "I thought it would move." A sidebar example not having anything directly to do with BO, but maybe an example of the type of lawsuits this legislation is meant to avoid.

It may lower the probability of the accident from happening in the first place, but if that's the purpose, there have been examples already made in this thread which do a better job of accomplishing that task.

I actually feel just as safe in full camo during spring Turkey season than I do in BO (which I do wear in my voluntary state of NH) deer hunting in the fall.

I've dragged on enough.

Cheers,

Dan

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Did you ask a talking deer?:DActually have seen some recent studies suggesting deer see more color than was previousely thought.
But that is not the point - making another law is. As I and several others keep pointing out in these threads, NYS VOLUNTARY compliance is already higher than virtually all states where it is mandatory!!!! This means more people are in violation of the mandatory requirementsthan do not choose to wear it in NY. I wear it in gun season here as do most( hence the high voluntary compliance rate)- make it mandatory and those who doen't see its value now will probably continue to not see its value. Plus I have to believe that, if made mandatory, therewill be the careless few who, not seeing orange, will automatically feel it is safe to shoot - not always the case! We currently also enjoy one of the lowest accident rates for hunting without mandatory BO!

There is another question I have asked thatthe proponents of mandatory BO never answer. Considering they are sure that somehow NY's high compliance rate can be pushed past every other states mandatory rate, they should have the statistics to answer. Question- whatare the current accident rates in the states that have moved to mandatory BO as compared to their rates before it was mandatory - has there been a significant, statistical lowering of the rate?
Anyone?

Steve

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I see talking deer!!!!! There have been many tests over the last decade that prove deer only see certain colors. While I do not know the specific names of the tests, I'm sure they are out there. I see that no matter what your side on this is, people will do what they want reguardless of the risks. If Blaze Orange dosen't work or dosen't reduces the risks while hunting why do we dress our children in it if we take them out hunting or in the woods during the season????/

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

The point here is that we agree that Blaze Orange increases the safety of any hunter that is in the deer woods. Any nitwit should know that. The difference is I want the opportunity to make that decision for myself. I don't need or want another law.

There's enough laws already:

As a hunter I am told how old I have to be before I hunt, I am told I need Hunter Education, I am told when I canand cannot hunt, what I can and cannot hunt, what weapon I can use, what weapon I cannot use, what time I can hunt, what time I cannot hunt, what sex of the animal I can shoot, what sex I cannot shoot, how many I am allowed to shoot in a day, in a season, how many points a buck has to have to be legaland what regions I am allowed to shoot. All of the above are designed to be laws that are in the best interest of the (in this case) deer. Absolutely nothing wrong with that....

Another law that tells me I have to wear orange because it's in my best interest....thanks but no thanks.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I agree that there are more and more laws coming into effect every year. I really don't think that mandating blaze orange or a law that is similar will snowball into more restrictions for hunters. As you said, they tell us when to hunt and what to shoot, that's part of the game, and if you want to play you have to abide by the laws. It's no different than driving a car, while they don't tell us when or what to drive they tell us it's has to be inspected or insured, and have plates, and what side to drive on. While it does infringe upon some rights there has to be some type of structure behind it or it dosen't work. It's all about being safe, not limiting out rights and privledges. I understand your point of view that you do not want anymore laws nor do I but we have to make the best of it no matter what.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

again why make it a law when so many are doing it anyway and how do you suggest enforceing it ? I'll bet you will be the first one whinning when the taxes go up

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Why would taxes go up to mandated Blaze Orange? Go to Wal-mart and buy a 10 dollars vest. As for enforceing it, that would be tough, but needless to say it wouldn't be any different than any other law. There would be people who break it everyday like every othe law. Never been a whiner much, it cost money to live, taxes are part of life and people need to get used to that. Sure I don't want to pay more jst like you, but what ae you going to do? Since you don't know me it would be very inappropriate for you to pass judgement on me. Taxes are part of life, if you cannot afford it get another job, Stick to the topic, Blaze Orange in NY. Try to be a little professional in your replies and not make direct personal attacks on people you don't know. Computer muscles and poor attitudes like yours make this place hard for people with intelligence to make there opinion heard. Stop being cheap, or get a better job to pay your taxes and not worry about me.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I will not be brought into your own private hell about his topic.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I'm surprised that so many are pro BO. When I 1st opened this thread I was lookin for BO to get slammed big time. It's the law here in Delaware and Maryland. $25 fine here if you get caught with no BO hat on, even if your in your own stand! I think thats a bit much.

I hunt a lease farm and there are 2-3 guys who won't wear BO all the time(inc the land owner) using the excuse its private land,the deer won't spot me, etc...etc...bla...bla...Accidents still happen on private land and hunters will tresspass and kill your non BO Butt! I wear a BO cap even when I'm scouting. I don't trust anybody!

This is one of those laws where you gotta protect the hunters against the few dumm asses that will shoot at anything that moves. I personaly don't object to the law here - it just forces and protects everybody against the few who could pop a cap in your back/chest. If it saves a life,that could be a fellow hunter or even a friend - I say go for it. If your one of the guys who already wears BO, no harm no foul.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

lou-louI am sticking to the topic of this thread . In order to enforce a law that we don't need the DEC will have to put more officers on the job , an orange patrol if you will , and in order to pay these officers the state will have to come up with the money somehow and you guessed it taxes

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

give me a break - more DEC officers for BO, don't think so. Don't you think those that are out there could enforce the law - if they see someone in violation - write a ticket or give a warning - no extra time involved - they are out there anyway.

with that said, it wouldn't be the end of the world to have a few more ECO around to enforce all game laws (poaching, etc.)

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I was thinking the other way. I am somewhat shocked at how many people are anti BO. Because they don't like being told what to do? They put the chance of not being spotted by a buck above 7 out of 10 huntes losing their lives? Don't make a lot of sense to me. Private land, public land, or your 1/2 acre backyard it doesn't matter. The simple fact is it WILL reduce hunter fatalities and everything else is irrelevant.
Go tell a widow of a hunter that was shot that at least her taxes are lower. Give me a break and lose the Rambo attitudes.

I agree!!

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Perhaps I misunderstood what you are trying to get across. Actually, 10 out of 10 hunters will die, but a very tiny number will die while hunting. In 2003, we had only three fatal accidents, and in 2004, only four fatal accidents in the entire state of PA. Hunting is a very safe sport. With nearly a million of us buying licenses, this is amazing. If you would like some statistics as to our hunting accidents, here is a webpage:
http://www.pgc.state.pa.us/pgc/cwp/view.asp?a=461&q=158315

Now, what is amazing about this is that in 2003 and also in 2004, none of the fatal accidents occured in spring gobbler season when we are not required to wear any blaze orange. It seems that the most fatal accidents occur during rifle deer season when we are required to do our pumpkin immitation.

Of further interest should be the fact that way back in the early years of hunting in PA, there were far more accidents and far more fatalities. Were those old guys not as safety conscious? Perhaps it is more due to the fact that most of them hunted deer by driving and shot at running deer.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

am i missing something here ? did the forests of ny suddenly become a killing ground ? as far as i know there are actually far fewer shooting related deaths now than 20 or even 10 years ago. a couple of you sound like every time you walk in the woods some idiot is shooting at you ! wow -paranoia ! i do wear blaze orange when i hunt on the ground but the state doesn't have to pass another law to tell me what to wear. when i'm sitting 20' off the ground in a treestand i don't want to have the orange glow and look like some christmas tree ornament . deer do see blaze as a whiteor light color from the studies i've read and i'm sure a white object moving in their area will alarm them. you all are welcome and allowed to wear any color you want , i want that same option, thank you very much !!!

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RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I think some of youmissed the obvious here. Mandatory blaze orange is not to restrict you as a hunter in the way some of you describe. Maybe you feelit isnt needed to protect YOU.Well, itsa lawto protect the OTHER guy. Its a law that says you must be visible to the other guy. Think of it this way. Wouldnt it be nice if it was left up to you if you wanna wear orange and be seen? But its ME who wants to be able to see YOU. Thats why its not really your choice. Im there too, so my choice is to be able to see you. You may not like orange, but I need to see you. Why should I bear the burden of having shot you because I couldnt see you in the line of fire? I could identify my target, see the visble backstop safely, and fire, not knowing you existed.

One other thing...go look up a tree in the winter when theres no leaves, or fewer leaves. Yep, lots of sky. Deer, if they look up, probably see that too. Orange, grey, white, whatever. Some instances might put you in the line of vision with deer and a dark background, but many also do not.

For what its worth, I personally hate having stupid laws tell me what I feelshould becommon sense. But Im just telling you why they do it, not as my choice or my words. Also, for whatever its worth, many hunting related shootings are self inflicted. Go figure...

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Let's stop this and get to the facts, Is this really about people who don't want to be controled anymore by laws or goverment and want to do as they wish or is it about people wanting to be safer in the woods come season time. All this macho crap is crazy, there are going to be more laws than we can shake a stick at in the near furture, and we can't do a thing about it , reguardless if we vote or not. This is not about them (being gov't) tring to control us more so people need to get off that kick. It's about coming home at night to our wifes and kids. They say that there is enough laws as it is, but the fact is that there wouldn't be that many if people were not stupid and careless and wouldn't break the laws. To me it is absolutly crazy not to gun hunt without some sort of orange on, those who want to have a CHOICE in the matter, it's your butt that your putting out there, why take unesssessary risks if you don't have too. Is it the rush of not being seen that makes you feel good while your out there?Folks it's deer hunting , not Iraq or the military where you have to hide from the enemy, or practice covert ops. I feel that this may get personel pretty soon with some of the people in here and there opinions, let's be professional and practice good judgement in what we write in here.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

If we would all just wear somekind of orange be it just a headband or arm ribbons or a BO feather in your cap something is better than nothing when hunting where there is more human pressure than in moree remote ares. I own acreage and do wear some BO during gun season andjust a bitduring archeryusing2 smallshoulder patches of BO and at times i stick BO stickums on my bow itself. Lets all try and talk this out, while there is always going to be some conflict on this matter as hunters we can all agree on one thing. "the anti hunters are watching and are most likely responding to some of these posts just to stirr up matters a bit. Remember we are all here for the same reasons
To hunt and enjoy our friends, family and our love for the outdoors.

Take care; Jim

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

Actually, I thought I did post some facts. Weren't they the ones you wanted?

First off, I do wear blaze orange during rifle deer season. I object to the fact that I have to wear it because I believe hunters should be responsible for their actions. Aren't you supposed to identify your target and determine that the shot is a safe one to take BEFORE you take the safety off and put your finger on the trigger? I do. What I object to is that we treat such incidents where a hunter is killed in mistake for game as accidents. They aren't accidents. They are an abdication of one's responsibility to hunt safely. If I kill someone on the highway with my car while driving recklessly, I can be convicted of manslaughter. Manslaughter is a felony, and with such a conviction one loses his right to own any kind of gun. Shouldn't the penalty be the same for hunting recklessly? If it were, I would wager that we wouldn't have as many hunting incidents where someone shoots another in mistake for game. Would you be a bit more careful if the penalty for shooting someone would guarantee you could never hunt again or own any kind of gun? Would you be more careful if shooting at someone and missing got you a conviction for reckless endangerment with the same possible result that you might not be allowed to hunt or own guns for the rest of your life?

I refuse to wear blaze orange during spring gobbler season. Turkeys can see blaze orange as well as I can, and the old gobblers and hens soon learn to make the connection between danger to them and blaze orange. If we mandate blaze orange in spring gobbler season, we might as well cancel the season. At least very few hunters wouldl kill mature gobblers anymore.

Finally, I get tired of the "Oh, if we can just save one life, it will all be worth it," mentality. We could save lots of lives if we would not drive cars. Highway fatalities number somewhere between forty and fifty thousand each year. Hunting accidents a whole lot less. Coming to a state near you. Horsepower limits on cars in the name of safety. Say fifty horsepower? The Brady bunch thinks we could save lots of lives if we could just confiscate all guns from us irresponsible citizens. Just think. If nobody owned guns, we wouldn't need a blaze orange law, would we?

I don't care what your politics are. It isn't about freedom to choose whether or not to wear blaze orange. It is about carelessness. Instead of putting the onus on those of us who hunt safely to defend ourselves against careless hunters, we should put the blame squarely where it belongs, on the shoulders of the careless hunter who doesn't practice gun safety.

RE: Blaze Orange In NY
 

I would also wager BO would be mandatory!