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RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

There crazy allowing rifles in all of Tioga county.

Our paper had an article last Sunday and my predicition seems to be coming true. Landowners that never posted before are going to post now.

Ahh looks good for Bowhunters.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

The funny thing about this is you would never know about the bill if we did not have good media or sites like this. It sure as heck is not posted on the DEC site offering comment meetings. I am sure they took the appropriate measures, but they definately did not want too many people knowing about it.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

does anyone know if Pataki has signed this yet last I knew it was on his desk

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I had one of my reporters talk to Pataki Wednesdayat the Angelica (Allegany County) Fair, and of course, ask about the status of the rifle bill. He said, "I don't think it has been sent down yet. The principal makes very good sense but I don't commit until I actualloy see the bill because sometimes there is a difference in what people say a bill says and what it really says. When it comes down, I'll look at it and make a decision." His secretary said last week that it would probably still be a couple of weeks before it "gets on his desk." Will let you know as soon as I know.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

What about Chautauqua county?

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I heard Chatauqua is not included in this. I saw one article that listed it and another that didn't, but a freind who hunts in Chatauqua says it isn't part of the bill. Probably because of all the uptights at the Institute.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Significant changes for New York hunters

By Dale Miller
Wellsboro Gazette
www.tiogapublishing.com

Although the Wellsboro Gazette is a Pennsylvania newspaper, the location of Tioga County puts us in close proximity with our northern neighbors in New York.
A number of Tioga County residents hunt in New York, and the hunters have a ripple effect on our local economy.

There are others who work in hunting related or hunting affected jobs, such as Ackley's Sporting goods in Westfield, Dave Wilson's "The Taxidermist" in Harrison Valley, or Painter's Meat Processing in Elkland.

There are more local sporting goods stores, taxidermists, and deer processors that serve New York hunters than those I mentioned, but I listed a few because I wanted readers to be able to attach a few names or faces to the column this week. One big change that may have an economic impact is the change from a Monday to a Saturday for the opening day of New York deer season.

Out of area hunters will likely arrive Friday rather than over the weekend, meaning more meals, groceries, and lodging if they are using motels or hotel rooms. A slight increase in hunters is expected, due to more hunter friendly work schedules. New York estimates about 2% more hunters for the opening day, statewide.

The bigger change is a proposal that has been approved by New York's state assembly and state senate and that is for the use of rifles to hunt deer and bear in portions of the southern tier.

As of the writing of this column, the bill only needed Governor Pataki's signature to become law, and will be put in place for the 2005 fall season. Ten full counties and rural areas of an eleventh county are involved.

The New York counties include Allegany, Cattaraugus, Chenango, Herkimer, Montgomery, Oneida, Oswego, Otsego, Schoharie, Tioga, and rural areas in Broome County.

Of local significance is that Allegany County which is northwest of Pennsylvania's Tioga County, and that Steuben County is not on the list.

Local sporting good stores should see an increase in rifle and ammunition sales in calibers suitable for deer and bear. I suspect some hunters will sell their shotguns to finance the new rifles, but many will not.

This may lead to lower prices for slug slinging shotguns as they become more readily available, but locally higher prices for rifles as they become harder to find, at least in the first year or two.

If you are planning on buying a shotgun for deer hunting, wait! Prices may drop slightly. If you plan to buy a big game caliber rifle this year, I suggest you buy it soon.

New rifles will mean new scopes for many, especially if the hunters decide to hold on to the old shotgun, which they may still need in some of their choice hunting areas in counties not affected by the change. Add the ammunition, a sling or carrying strap, case for the rifle, targets for sighing in, and the economic boost may be significant. Only time will tell.

Some of the reasons given for the change include a decrease in hunter numbers as the population ages and recruitment of new hunters is not keeping pace with those men and women lost to hunting.

The decrease in hunters come at a time when most areas have been facing an increase in deer populations and New York has, in recent years, followed a similar pattern of increased deer management permits (commonly called doe tags) that Pennsylvania has used. However, it should be noted that the number of tags available in many units this year are scheduled to go down, not up, responding to higher harvest and lower number of sightings.

The theory is that rifles with a longer effective range will be able to take some deer that were out of range for shotguns. There is also some speculation among hunters that new the regulations are another piece in the attempt to reduce deer to assist in the control of Chromic Wasting Disease (CWD) recently discovered in New York.

Regardless, some larger, more elusive bucks may now be in range and fall to a rifle, which could mean a slight increase in taxidermy work as well, again, especially in the first year or two of the changes.

Meat processors will likely see less change in total numbers. My guess is that there will be a larger percentage of bucks in this years harvest, and overall kill may be crunched more into the first few days, especially with a weekend opening day.

Granted, my suspicions are largely conjecture and speculation. Time will tell. The non-hunting public often does not see the ripple impact that hunting has upon local economies, unless that part of the public happens to be a person in a business or service that is affected by such changes.

This is a rural area. We hunt! Hunters spend money! That money ripples through our local economy. That is almost a simple as A, B, C, & D!

Author's Note: Eleven New York counties will be affected by the proposed changes in regulations. That does not mean all or even parts of all those counties have an open bear season. Check all applicable regulations before hunting for bear.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Guess my .243 will see some action in Oswego county.....I hope!!!

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I still can't believe that this bill seemingly popped up outta no where this summer. I'm just glad that my county isn't currently on the list.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

But what about next year? I heard that a few counties were included in the original bill, but the political winds shifted and they were taken out of the final bill. But what they can give, they can take away. Also, what about Steuben hunters, hunting on property adjacent to Allegany County and visa versa. If I shoot a deer with my rifle and it runs over into Steuben County, am I allowed to pursue it? What about finishing it off? If the gov. signs the bill it goes into effect immediately. Also, how did the counties get chosen? Why one county and not another? Who did the choosing and what was their criteria? How did some counties get out of it (like Chatauqua) and others tried to and were not allowed? And what is the plan for the future? And why wasn't the rifle season brought up at the statewide Spring informational meetings

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RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Hey guys, I am new here but I thought this would be a good topic to get started on. I spoke to the county legislators this past we and yes some of the land owners are going to post but it was a funny thing when they were asked if they were going to hunt with a rifle they unanimously said yes.
I myself being an "accuracy nut" will look forward to put four deer in my freezer this year.

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RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

As you may have guessed I am pro Rifle, I do not trophy hunt in-fact I may only guide this year because my wife is going to hunt for the first time ever and I may grunt and rattle for her I will have my rifle just in case. I also reload for our weapons so she gets lots of practice at TCSA (range) She goes for her hunter safety course 4&6 of Aug. She will be shooting my SKS with a scope and synthetic stock I am going to have to order the 5 rnd. Mag. for it ASAP. So the chest freezer should be full this year for sure.
By the way the land owners that are posting their land over this rifle issue, IT IS YOUR OWN FAULT! When you get a proposal together you should do so before it goes to the Governor by then it is TOOOOOOOOOOO late. The boat has left thestate and you guys are showing up at the dock with the oars. So post your land on yourselves as well.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I have talked to three DEC officers and they hav'nt heard anything about it and said that if the bill passed that it might take until next year to get implemented into the rulebook,so make sure before you go out with the grandads old 06 that it is legal.Thats all you need to have happen is getting arrested because the rules didnt get changed!

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I hear you there, but according to the bill it is to take effect immediately. So under the "letter" of the law the minute it is signed it is legal. By the way it is not Gradads 06 it is my New 06 LOL.;)

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

This is the last paragraph of the bill:


21 S 3. This act shall take effect immediately, provided that the amend-
22 ments to paragraph a of subdivision 2 of section 11-0907 of the environ-
23 mental conservation law made by section one of this act shall be subject
24 to the expiration and reversion of such paragraph pursuant to section 13
25 of chapter 600 of the laws of 1993, as amended, when upon such date the
26 provisions of section two of this act shall take effect.
.SO DOC S 918A *END* BTXT 2005



I AM NOT A JEDI YET!!! seems there is a clause in there I didn't see before!!!!!!!!!!!

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Hey guys,

I live in Montana but head back every year to hunt in the Fillmore, Ny. area.
I think that is in Allegany county am I correct?

Montana

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Montana: Yes, Allegany County is one of the few counties which will see rifle season, if the governor signs the bill. So get ready to pack your rifle. As it stands right now, I just got through speaking to one of Gov. Pataki's liasons. He said that he didn't think that he will sign it until "the end of the summer." He also said that he doesn't know if he will sign it or not.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I was told he had 10 days to sign or veto it and if he didn't it became law without his signature.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I get the feeling that it will die a slow death and won't happen, at least not this year, so don't put those slug guns away just yet.....And Oak Duke-welcome to this forum, look forward to your input! See you on the hill!

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I am for the rifle bill, but will still have my 870 Express with the 23" Super Slug barrel as my primary weapon. My, hopefully if the bill passes and get one, Remington 700 .308 will be my back up. If the bill doesn't pass, I will have my Knight DISC Elite .50 cal. as my backup if the reliable 870 does fail.

A week and a half ago I got my NY Outdoor News. They finally covered the bill, and in full force. Half the paper was about the bill. It said in there that Pataki has 10 days to sign it and hasn't looked at it yet. Hopefully when I get the next edition this Thursday a final decision will be made.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Well you learn something new every day!

BASIC BILL PASSAGE PROCESS
[hr]

1. The bill is introduced (First Reading) in either the House or the Senate.
2. The bill is assigned to a Committee.
3. The Committee takes testimony on the bill and makes recommendations to the full chamber.
4. The bill is read again (Second Reading) and is adopted or rejected.


5. If the bill is adopted, it is read a third time (Third Reading) and is adopted or rejected. If the bill fails to pass on Third Reading it dies. If the bill passes, the bill moves to the second chamber and the process is repeated.


a. If the bill is amended in the second chamber it is sent back to the originating body where they must concur with the changes. If they concur, the bill proceeds in the second chamber to Third Reading. If the original chamber does not concur with the changes, a Conference Committee is appointed to settle the differences. If no compromise is reached, the bill dies.


6. If the bill passes the second chamber it is sent to the Governor. The Governor has four options when the bill arrives on his desk.

a. The Governor can sign the bill into law, or it becomes law after a period of 60 days passes without the Governor's signature.

b. The bill can be amended through the Governor's Amendatory Veto powers.

c. If the bill is an appropriations bill, the Governor has the option of using his Line Item or Reduction Veto.

d. The Governor can veto the bill in its entirety.
7. If the General Assembly wishes to override the Governor's veto, it takes a 3/5ths majority vote during the Fall Veto Session.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

well at least we know we are on step 6 of 7.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Pretty myopic. If hunting access is lost over this, it will NOT be worth it.

I like guns as much as the next guy, but if you think that using a rifle is going to get you that deer you couldn't get with a scoped, rifled shotgun, you're in for a big surprise.

Everybody seems to be looking for the easy way out these days, rifles instead of slug guns, inlines instead of sidelocks, crossbows instead of bows, whatever makes it simpler.

You could just try setting up at the correct end of the field with your slug gun, you know. Of course, that would take some actual time and effort and hunting skills.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

If you looked at what Knight offers on their DISC muzzleloaders, their safety system is 100% reliable if both safety systems are engaged. Your older style blackpowder guns don't exactly give you that guarantee. Some of us would like to make it home at the end of the hunt if we happened to slip and fall walking up a hill.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

Let's assume that is as big a deal as you suggest....

That's not the point. Triple pellet loads, 209 primers, scopes, and especially saboted bullets have transformed the muzzleloader. You don't need a rifle law, you already have a single shot rifle!

Some of US would like to make it home at the end of the night, too. Adding more and more range to hunting weapons increases the risk, as well.

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Yep .... no arguement from me there. But perhaps you forget the reasons that slug only laws were enacted in the first place - proximity to people and limited range.

I have no dog in this fight. I have a 30-06 and a 30-30 in the gun cabinet right next to my slug guns.

They would probably stay there regardless of what happens with this bill. I can't see 50 yds in the areas I gun hunt every fall, and I've grown quite fond of the terminal performance of 12 ga. slugs on deer sized critters.

My point is that rifles will not make a significant difference to the hunting in our neck of the woods, and perhaps folks should be working on improving their skills instead of their range.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

I agree with all that you guys said. My slug gun will be my primary weapon because all of the spots I will be hunting is shotgun legal. One spot where I hunt will be open to rifle hunting, that's when a rifle would be my backup. That's beside the fact.

I got my NY Outdoor News today. The bill hasn't been even put onPataki's desk yet. They said that Pataki said that if all that he hears about the bill is true he will sign it, but he is going to look at the bill first to make sure of what he is signing because he said sometimes people can misunderstand what is said in a bill.

They say that Pataki is likely to sign it sometime in August.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

cma3366a, I also reload for my 30-06 and shoot at the range 2 times a wk.
thesource, I hunt the same with a shotgun as I do with a bow, I place my stands where the wind blows into my face, I scout the entire hunting area to make sure there are deer there. Rifle hunting will increase the chance that when I hit the deer it will drop where it is hit. Rifle hunting is not any easier then shotgun hunting the only difference is the range in which I can land a kill shot. Oh and @ 32 hunting accidents over the last year you stand a better chance of being hit by lightning while in a submarine layingon the bottom of the ocean.

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At least some outdoor focused papers are keeping us in the loop.

I'd think they would have some sort of action soon...hate to see a bill like this pass at the last moment before the season.

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Yes I agree this is going to be my wifes first hunting season and I don't know whether to have her shoot the rifle or the shotgun.

RE: New York rifle bill passes: UPDATE
 

You're kidding, right?

Rifles possess no magic power that will anchor a deer on the spot. Bullet selection is critical in determining terminal performance, and unless you're willing to pay for the super premiums, there are no guarantees.

The last buck I shot with a 12 ga slug (35 yds with a Federal Expander) literally got flipped over sideways and barely twitched. Deer shot with a 30-06 through both lungs with a bullet that has failed to expand have managed to travel hundreds of yards and required hours to track down.

There is no problem with the "knockdown power" of a 12 ga or 20 ga slug. You want a rifle so you can shoot out to 300 yds instead of 100 yds. As a bowhunter who is used to 15 and 20 yard shots, I just don't see the need for the added range.

I also think its somewhat irresponsible to pass a rifle law before you pass a Blaze Orange law.

It only takes one mistake to ruin your day.

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thesource, Do you shoot rifles? Have you shot a rifle to kill anything? I have done all of the above, I have NEVER had a deer go more then 2 steps after being shot with a .270 winchester, I have shot woodchucks @ 450yds in the head with a 22-250 that didn't even twitch. If you cannot shoot a rifle with the accuracy needed to drop a deer where it stands, by all means use a shotgun. I reload my ammunition and test every batch so I know where it hits and what it does when it hits there. Presently I am loading a 165 gr spire point which will do the job.

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I would have to concur on that one. I do mostly bird hunting here in MA, where they require blaze orange. Going out there to NY deer hunting where they have no blaze orange requirement had me come close to shooting a person once. With added range of a rifle, that gives you more distance to keep your eyes open on and giving you less ability to identify your target the farther you have to look out. I think at least an orange hat would be sufficient, just enough to warn other hunters your not deer.

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Ok,I supposea few will always look for the "easiest" weapon. I had to chuckle though,at the choice of crossbow (of which I have no problem with) over a compound bow. But, the point Id make though, is simply this...Most of us NYers know of guys who have traditionally gone down to PA to hunt deer. Ask any of them why, and most will tell you its because they enjoy shooting their rifles. I believe that a majority actually do like shooting the rifle, and this offers them that opportunity. Its not about being easy, in my opinion. Hell, the guys who use rifles because its "easy" start in September, after dark. I too often see the fragmented bullets in deer to prove that, lol.

I personally probably wont be able to take advantage of a rifle season here in NY, but Im not against one either. Ive always been a proponent for weapon efficiency, out of respect for the animal.