Hedhuntr

I just received my June copy of the New Jersey Federated Sportsmen and it says there was more CWD found in Oneida county NY! This time it was in wild deer unlike the last time were it was in a captive herd. Man, this is not good! I talked to a warden from Wisconson on a recent caribou trip and he works and patrols in the erradication zone. He told me it is pretty bad where he is from and said he hopes that it never spreads east because of the high deer per square miles in Jersey and PA and said it would really do a number on our deer pop. Sadley it looks like it may just happen after all since they found it in the wild deer in NY within the last couple weeks. The thing that really upsets me is that I think (my opinion only) that it may have been spread through the buying and selling of game farm animals. Here in Jersey there is only one high fence operation unlike PA and NY which have many. I have hunted one in PA and those farm buy sell and trade all the time with each other. CWD can have a long period where a deer will be infected and it could take awhile for the deer to show signs of it which can make it harder to tell. What do you guys think about all this???

Bill Yox

Hi Hedhunter, my best advice for you is to read the other CWD posts in this category. The info you have is kinda old, and we already hashed it out with more opinion. CWD is not "spreading" in Wisconsin either, yet they HAVE spent 3.5 million to chase it.

Phade

Holding back there a 'lil eh Bill?

Hedhuntr

Sorry Bill, I didn't look back that far in the posts. I have always repected and looked up to your opinion as a fellow sportsman and taxidermist but come on Bill, this is not good! I read the posts and articles and you just seem to me that you are kind of reserved about the CWD situation. I don't want to see the same thing that happened in Wisconson to happen in NY or NJ. Bill, I don't know how many deer per square you have in your region of NY but where I'm from in central Jersey we have in some places 50-70 deer per square mile! I still have to stand by my belief that even with the start of a small outbreak would be devastating where I'm from. Now add in the fact that their droppings could or would contain the prion that can hang around for years and add in that baiting is allowed in NJ and would most likely be right up until its to late. There was an outbreak of blue tongue here about 10 years ago and 60-80 deer died in a 72 hour period all within walking distance of eachother. People also seem to be lax to the fact that you can't catch it because it does not jump specie barriers, well tell that to the people that enjoyed there nice all beef patty's in England all 160+ of them that choked and croked when scientist said the tests show that madcow only effects cows. I won't even mention the three elk hunters a few years ago. Bill I hope I don't sound arrogant or disrespectfull but NJ can't even manage the state goverment let alone our Bear issue or our politicians why would I be led to believe that they could even come close to handling something like this! Oh, i know what they would do! Open deer hunting all year round, charge triple for the license, zones ect ect ect..... and then use the money to pay for the state deficit of maybe a new state security advisor (im laughing now) or maybe for a new sports complex or something like that.

Phade

Prepare yourself for the rath o' Bill Yox....

Seriously though, working this situation into a frenzy will not cure anything. Let those who need to make decisions, or develope possible options to be explored do so.

Misinformation ruins the best intentions of many people, and agencies. Sit back a bit, and wait until possible solutions are offered. Anything more on your part, minus a letter, etc. does nothing if you are not a trained biologist/chemist/random "ists".

Just wait, you'll see all the nuts screaming bloody murder in the coming months.

BuckAlley

I just read a article in the latest issue of NY Outdoors. It explained alot of what was going on w/CWD, and what measures the NYSDEC has done, and future actions to hopefully control it. Personnally I liked what I read, and it helped to put my mind at ease.

Hedhuntr

Phade, you are right. I shouldn't go and start running around like a chicken with my head cut off. I did get a little worked up over the situation (sorry) but if you lived her you would know the situation in NJ. In short I'll fil you in. It seems our game commision has recently had ther hands tied behind there back by our not so well liked DEP commish Bradley Campbell. He told the state biologist to supress data about a bear hunt because our now dearly departed ex governer got to much flack last time during election time. Well ''they'' (state biologist) went public about the politically driven statements that the commish said and now the biologist are going infront of a state review because Bradley got mad at them so he retaliated by saying that the wildlife commission is unfairly represented by general public because some of our biologist hunt themselves. All I am saying is that in NJ things aren't run in the best intrest of solid wildlife data and reporting and it frightens the hell out of me to what the politico's of NJ would do in a CWD situation. I have even heard MR. Yox talk about NJ and its issues before. Compared to NY we live in a 1/2 acre wood lot. The zone that had CWD in Wisconsin is half the size of NJ and they went on a erradication type alert to wipe em out. So it would be devastaing to NJ and all of the East for that matter. I told a buddy of mine about the findings in NY and he said that i called it to a T, I said the year they would find it and also the states they would find it in the east. I believe they will next find it in PA within the next two hunting seasons and in three to four years it will pop up in NJ. I hate to be a pessimist about this but you have to look at the fact that it is spreading. I also believe (and again I an no biologist) that deer contracted CWD from either A. sticking there noses in cow dung from cows that were infected or B. eating out of infected feed troths intended for livestock that either had ground up cows that were infected or troths containing ground up goats that had scrapie. Okay, I said what I had to say!

Now I am just waiting for Bill to rip me a new one and give me a whooping for my comments.

Bill Yox

Hedhuntr, no ripping from me! You are right to be concerned, especially with your states track record in the past as a guide. No, I sure dont want folks going off half-cocked on such an important issue, thats true. But, you have to know that Im very involved in this, not at the "what I read" sense though. I spent a day in the capital with a group that included Gary Nelson, the pres of NEDeFA, the largest deer farming group. Gary is from Wisconsin. I could go on and on about how CWD REALLY got to Wisconsin. It wasnt you as a hunter or me as a deerfarmer either. The NY outbreak has been very contained, not by us, but by the deer and the disease itself. Thats the point. To kill off deer in hopes of finding more seems ludicrous. The DEC here has done a pretty good job, but the regs are going to get tight and stupid, Im afraid. Add to that the many uninformed nobodies with a pen and a column in some hunting rag, and you get the hype that too many folks read and think is real or accurate. I LIVE this stuff. Its not heresay. Ive known the guy where it was found for twenty years. The story you read is NOT how its happened. There are authors who wrote stuff that was just plain wrong, and even lied. I know, as I know who they are. We watched as misquotes were rewritten time after time by people little more then parrots. No brains, just copying abilities. Now THATS serious stuff.

So, Im far from reserved, just holding my tongue in certain instances. Plus I dont care to be referred to as a know-it-all, as I have in other posts in the past. As for the cow dung, etc, let me help you out a bit. CWD is very species-specific. Cervidae only. Not bovine, and theres no cross contamination. Also, its law that theres no animal by-products in feed intended for any ruminants, cervids or bovine. Also, scrapies is a related wasting type disease, found in sheep. You mentioned EHD, or epizooic hemeraggic disease (bluetongue) earlier. EHD has killed more deer each year then CWD has all total, easily. Also, after Wisconsin had their CWD fling, did you know that last year they enjoyed their second highest hunter harvest in history? Didnt catch these facts in the local rag mags, did ya? Hahaha, because nobody wants to say so. Its way easier to holler that the sky is falling. You also mentioned baiting. I could never figure out how deer, or diseases, could decipher between illegal or artificial baiting, like food plots, bait piles, feeders...and the "legal" ways of concentrating deer, such as overpopulation, leaving crops over-winter, etc. I know, Im being sarcastic, but facts are facts. The facts are that nobody knows if deer need to rub there noses or their asses to spread this stuff.

Heres another. They are now proposing that deerfarmers need 10 ft fences. Hmmm, major airports put up fence surrounding all airport runways to keep deer away from planes, to protect human life. And they use 6 or 8 ft fence. Hmmm...See what I mean?

Hedhuntr, forge ahead and ask questions, and be concerned. I wouldnt take my "trying to sound cool" approach as cavelier or not concerned. Im trying to put out some inaccuracies fires and keep a level, albeit bald, head.

Phade

I know you and I often have differing opinions, but you actually like NY Outdoor News?

lol.

Phade

Now this is a legit conversation.

If we had the technical skills, I bet we could fix everything, because we aren't calling each other deragatory names like what happened at the season meetings.