RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Illinois Farm Bureau wins again.[:o]

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Here in MN, the NR will pay whatever their home state or province pays for a NR tag. So on that note come on up IL resedents see how it feels to get raped!

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Well, its apparently a done deal. Passed yesterday.Got some sketchy details from an outfitter freind who just talked to DNR.... $100 increase this year and $ 50 more for each of the next two years. The minimum quota is 20,000 with the first 7,500 being drawn from clients of outfitters. There will probably be online applications very soon.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Worked hard to locate a great public land spot close to Indiana, but count me out for 2006. Too much money. Me and my points will be spent in Iowa this year. Probably just stay home to hunt in 2006.

Curious if our state goes to reciprocal fees with this treatment.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

if their going to a lottery it needs to be done very quick.personally i was hoping for an end to the caps there is no need for caps where bowhunting is concerned.jmo

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

This is the part I hate...........outfitters getting the first 7,500. All Non-resident hunters should be treated the same whether they use an outfitter or not.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Why is that a problem? Outfitters lay out big $$, usually early in the year, and then have to hold their breath while they wait and see if their clients draw tags.

It appears you would just as soon not see any NR's, but, assuming that some NR hunters are going to be a fact of life, would you prefer the guy who drags a camper into Illinois, hunts unguided on the little bit of public land there is (land that you as a resident probably helped pay for) and spends almost nothing in your state? Or would you rather see the hunter that comes in and pays the outfitter who pays the landowner, pays the guides, pays the grocery stores, pays the motels, pays local taxes etc etc etc??

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

I guess I don't see it the same as BT but I don't see why a client of an outfitter would have any more trouble than anyone else in obtaining a tag. Why set aside 7,500 tags? I have traveled to Illinois for the last several years to hunt their PUBLIC LAND and I didn't do it out of a camper. First of all I have called the first day tags went on sale and had no problem getting a tag every year. I feel they should leave it fair game for all to call in and draw tags. I mean its not like your in a drawing or anything. If you know your going and your going to hunt w/ a outfitter and you've spent that kind of money to hunt I think you can use the phone like everyone else does. Secondly, Sure some of us are not spending the big money to pay an outfitter to hunt but that does not make our money we do spend any less valuable. We rent cabins from the DNR on the public ground to hunt. We also buy our groceries in IL as well as eat in their restaurants and buy their gas. I don't think it fair to say that a NR that hunts public ground is less valuable a hunter to IL economy than one that decides to hunt w/ an outfitter. I wonder how often a person that hunts w/ a outfitter returns year after year to contribute to IL. I might not spend the big outfitter fee but I come back EVERY year and spend money. I realize everyone sees thing differently and I just wanted to express my view of your comment. Aren't you a NR?

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

No people should be given preference for tags just because they make their living off of outfitting or because they have enough money to pay an outfitter. The outiftters are hated as much as they are because they are the ones who are leasing up all the ground and keeping residents from being able to hunt. By increasing the amount of land they control and by being able to guarentee all the clients a tag they will be able to afford to lease more ground and soon enough certain areas have very little huntable ground anymore. And worse they only lease the ground to use during deer season and keep all small game hunters out the rest of the year.

Money spent by those who use outfitters goes to the outfitters. Those who come and camp or hunt from hotels are the ones who use resteraunts, drive themselves all over the place, get groceries at the local grocery store and such. With the outfitters I know they provide everything and the money is more concentrated.

It really is irrevelvant now because there will be no limit so they can give the first 20,000 to outfitters and the next 100,000 to the other NRs. It just doesn't matter with the virtually unlimted tags now available. But to answer your question, I would rather see the NR who doesn't use an outfitter. Has very little impact on me as I have my land to hunt but the growth of outfitting is only a huge negative for the state in the long run.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Just to disspell some faulty info posted in the last two posts....

90% of outfitters do NOT have big, fancy lodges. Clients of most outfitters spend the money in Illinois on the EXACT same things as do-it-yourselfers do.

That means the ONLY money that stays with the outfitter is the hunting fee.

Also....the outfitters that have the big, fancy lodges.......built those big, fancy lodges utilizing local labor, local building components, and they hire local help to guide for them.

All of this spurs the local economy.

This subject is what it is.........paying money to hunt BIG bucks, or BIG any type of animal is here to stay.

The world changes constantly, that is the sad truth.

In 1978 I bought my first brand new 4WD pickup truck for $6000.00

In 2003 I bought my latest new 4WD pickup truck for...$41,000.00


I sure do miss the old days....but if I wanted a new and fancy pickup truck....I had to do what was necessary to obtain it.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

alwyshntn,
yes I am a NR. And to be fair, I should point out that even though I am a NR I work with an Ill oufitter and bring him hunters. Basically, it pays for my annual hunting trip to the golden triangle. I was using that example as an extreme. I realize that all NR's spend money in the state whether they employ an outfitter or not (some more yhan others).

As Big Country said, I'd love to buy a new 4wd pickup for $6000 and I'd love to hunt Illinois for free but the days of both are gone for good. It's not the fault of NR's or the outfitters. It's just the way things are going. Paying to hunt is commonplace in many areas of this great nation and it's getting more common every day.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

This whole plan was pushed by a small special interest group, the largest 15-20 outfitters in the state. The prevailing attitude was leave prices alone.

"The world changes constantly, that is the sad truth.
In 1978 I bought my first brand new 4WD pickup truck for $6000.00
In 2003 I bought my latest new 4WD pickup truck for...$41,000.00 "

This is the sad attitude I hate to see any hunters take. You cannot compare the typical inflation rate to what these deer tags are doing. Besides that, a typical pickup from 2003 has way more technology and basic features than one from the 70's! That is really a bad comparison. This rate increase blows away any inflation rate. We are talking about a 1,000% increase over the last 15 years. This is taking the sport to a completely different market strategy, to one operating entirely on a supply/demand basis. What sucks is that this is precisely how hunting was transformed in Europe, where now only the wealthy hunt. Other states will penalize Illinois residents. This propogates the screw one another attitude, and promotes an isolationist economy. All of us hunters lose. To pass it off as inevitable is truly negative. Write your legislators and complain. Don't let this happen in your state because what goes around, comes around. It benefits none of us. That is not an opinion, it is a fact.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

OK Zim, just who do you want me to call?

I tried the calling/e-mailing deal several years back when the ILDNR decided to go the BPS call in route. Brent Manning did not want to hear anything.

Is it the ILDNR or the good folks in Chicago that I should be calling?

You are telling me that 15-20 outfitters got the Illinois state government to raise the NR tags?

I miss the days when I could stop in any little mom and pop store to pick up my NR tag for a measely $126.00

But I sure don`t miss it enough to boycott my hunts in Illinois. Tell me where I should start to make this better?

State government did this increase thing, and you ain`t gonna beat `em.

Even if you could...they don`t want to hear from me......I don`t live in their state....

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

That is not correct and simply does not make any sense. Why would an outfitter want to jack up prices knowing they will lose clients due to the increased fees?

I have spoken to many outfitters. None of them support the increase in fees. This is our State government at work increasing state revenues without taxing Illinois residents.

The outfitter tags are the result of a handful of outfitters who got the attention of the DNR Director and it's legal team. Originally, the DNR proposal had a two-tier system where they would charge the outfitted clients a much higher rate than those who went through a lottery.
Tag fees were supposed to be much higher but instead will be increased over a 3 year period.

Thankfully the Farm Bureau, along with other groups and individuals brought some sanity to the situation and persuaded the legislators to lower the original fee structure. Hopefully the legislature will do something next year that will maintain the present fee structure(or drop it back to last year's level). We have a number of Illinois hunters that hunt out of state. They are not gonna like paying reciprocal fees and will raise cain.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

LLBUX,

"That is not correct and simply does not make any sense. Why would an outfitter want to jack up prices knowing they will lose clients due to the increased fees?"

That is correct. Let me clarify. The small group of influential outfitters that pushed the outfitter draw did NOTHING to oppose the proposed price increase when they most definitely could have. It was all happening at the same time. They did not because they did not care. Their clientel is upscale and an increase would not impact their business. If anything, it would benefit their clients getting tags due to less DIY competition. Let me point out this was a small goup of the wealthiest outfitters. All they cared about was getting preferential entitlements which is a bunch of BS. They should be stucturing their business around game management, not the other way around. If they don't like the rules, don't get in the business.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

ZIM-

I PM'ed you.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

The Illinios DNR does not have any thing do with IL deer management ..... Illinois deer herd is managed and controled by the "Illinois Farm Bureau" ...... You can call them now. ;):D

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Well, there you have it![:@]

No wonder I never get anything accomplished? I never deal with the right people.[&:]

I can see it makes sense now though.....seeing how Illinois GROWS big bucks!!

Thanks for the heads up dude....

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Because as I have said in many other posts, the state should not be involved in subsidizing outfitters. A non-resident hunter who hunts on private land or public land and doesn't use an outfitter should have equal opportunity to obtain tags as a non-resident who uses an outfitter.
I've met some non-resident hunters in my area and have no problem with them. In fact they were more respectful and are probably much more ethical than some resident hunters I know.

Let me give you a hint about Farm Bureau............I've been involved and crossed paths with the organization many times. Although I grew up on a farm and helped farm in Indiana, its the same Farm Bureau. They do help farmers on some issues but they are a huge business and have many interests. Farm Bureau likes to control things and although they would like you to think they are ALWAYS working in the best interest of farmers........it ain't always so!!

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Cougar Mag I would just like to say THANKS for having a open-mind about us NR. I know alot of people have different opinions about NR in all states but I have been very fortunate in running into great people not only in IL but also IA and KS. In the end we are all outdoorsmen who love the opportunity to get out and enjoy it. Hunting has become a product so to speak that everyone is trying to capitolize on. I would like to see us all (midwest states) get on a even playing field as far as price goes and make it possible for all people to have the opportunity to enjoy what we each have to offer. I'm not saying open the door to unlimited tags (which we do in MO) but incorporate a lottery drawing and make it affordable for all. May not be the right approach but its just a thought.:):D

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Since the IL state legislature has taken deer management away from the DNR and handed it over to the Illinois Farm Bureau .... begining in 2005, deer licenses can be purchased at ...

Illinois Farm Bureau, 1701 North Towanda Avenue, Bloomington, Illinois 61701.

Phone: (309) 557-2111

http://www.ilfb.org/

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

The Farm Bureau is absolutely about business and money and really do not do as much as they should in other areas to help farmers. We had the local FB come by here the other week and do their typical sales pitch as to why we should join and how we could get discounts at such and such resteraunt that we don't ever want to go to, and a whole bunch of perks that were worthless as far as I am concerned. I asked them, hey, how about doing something usefull and working out a health insurance program so the farmers can buy the insurance in bulk and have it be like a company works so we could get lower premiums and better coverage as study after study have shown how underinsured the American farmer is. No, they would rather bend over backwords for the corporate farm industries and other high enders in the industry. No thanks...

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Update!!

The DNR website promises details on NR archery licensing procedures on June 15 2005!

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

i hear its going to be a lottery.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Apps are supposed to be available June 15, We will probably be able to apply online. The first 7500 will be drawn from outfitter clients and then all others will be elgible for the other 12500. The drawing is targeted for July 15.

At least thats the story for now:eek::eek::eek:

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

I wonder how many non-residents use an outfitter. What I really don't like about all this is......nevermind, I ain't going to say it again. [:o]

What if other states did this(maybe some do), give preference in drawing a tag to those paying an outfitter. That would stink having the thought of not drawing an elk tag for instance in Wyoming or another western state because I wasn't using an outfitter.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

I'm absolutely not trying to start a fight. I'm going to do my best to ask this with all due rspect, but what do you have against outfitters? I wouldnt use an outfitter close to home but I have used many when I hunted far from home. IMHO ethical outfitters provide a service by helping facilitate hunts for those who want to hunt areas and/or animals that they cant hunt at home. Most , but admittedly not all, outfitters are locals just trying to make a living. Unless he is a scrooge who needs no maney and simply puts his earnings in a vault, money paid to a resident outfitter (by the way Ill resident outfitters are the only ones who get their clients in the early drawing) winds up being spent in your state or gets added into your tax base. Considering the investment an outfitter makes in advance by leasing ground, reserving accomodations, advertising, promoting etc etc etc it seems only fair that DNR and the legislature should consider those expenditures when they pass a law imposing a quota that DNR has said is not biologically necessary.

I wouldnt be pleased if an outfitter leased a place I previously hunted for free but guess what? It's happening everywhere.

If you want to pick on thr rogue, bandit outfitters please feel free to do so. But legitimate outfitters have a right to do business and any business has the right to not have their businees hurt by laws and regulations that are that are purely the result of poltical pressure

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

I personally don't have a real problem w/ outfitters in general but ran into a not so ethical one while hunting in IL. I was hunting a timber strip that ran through the middle of a large CRP field. I was hunting the head of the strip and the strip ran another half a mile or so and continued onto private land that was leased from a outfitter. The ground I was on was public ground and I made the effort to contact the outfitter before hand and ask him what the situation would be if I were to shoot a deer and it run onto him. He assured me it would be no problem and to just contact him and it would be fine. The next day I let my little brother sit in my stand in the strip. While sitting there he observed two gentlemen cross out of the leased land and onto the public ground circling the strip. They came upon the head and spread apart walking the strip out all the while throwing something out of a bag in their coats while wearing latex gloves. He walked upon my brothers stand and noticing him began grilling him as to whom he was and where he was from. He introduced himself as the gentleman that I had talked to previously. My brother then said I think you talked w/ my brother two days before he acknowledge that he had talked to me and said good luck. I knew this was the beginning of trouble and the next morning we decided to go back and pull the stand. While pulling the stand I looked around where my brother had said he had seen them throwing things from their pockets. I soon found the ground littered with MOTHBALLS. This outfitter had 13,000 continous acres to hunt on and in my opinion ruined several days of our hunt. My first emotions told me to find this [:@]hole and let him have a piece of my mind and maybe a little more. We let the IL authorities handle it though and once we mentioned his name they knew just whom he was and said they have had alot of problems w/ him and he is not on the up and up. I check out his website when I returned home and man he really preached ethical hunting and so on and so on. He boasted high success rates which now I can see why when you drive off pulic ground you know is holding good deer and litter the boundaries w/ mothballs. This guy is a disgrace to hunting and has given me personally a bad impression of outfitters and the lengths they go to make there money sometimes at other sportsmen expense. I know BT and you are probably reading this saying not me. I am not aiming this your way because I do not have any idea of your situation and ethics. I also am not trying to label all outfitters because just like there are unethical hunters doesnt mean they all are and the same for outfitters. Just had to get that off my chest.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

I really got off of the subject there but BT the bottom line is you are not a resident of IL and nor am I. Here in MO outfitting is beginning to pick up but not like in IL. Its out of control there and getting worse all the time. You are not going to win this arguement w/ the folks in IL because it is the land they have hunted since children in some instances and not ours. So it is VERY understandable that they be upset. Don't you think? I would not rub salt in the wound by asking HEY whats the big deal why don't you like outfitters ;because I think we all know the answers already. I know you are trying to protect your investment but at the expense of who or what? Do the needs of the few (outfitters) out weigh the interest and needs of the many (IL sportsmen) or is it that the needs of the ones with the deep pockets matter the most today? I know outfitting is here to stay but the way they are taking over all the good hunting ground and pushing more and more people onto state lands and combine that with development you have to wonder if your children or your grandkids will ever be able to enjoy the outdoors the way it was meant to be.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

alwyshntn

I hear ya and I do understand the Ill resident hunters who arent happy with outfitters to a point. I'll only say this. The guy who has never traveled away from home and paid to hunt has far more right to complain than anyone who has gone somewhere else to hunt with an outfitter for whatever species. After all, any hunting pressure anywhere from a NR takes something away from the residents. A NR using an outfitter anywhere at anytime could be stepping on the toes of some local.

On the other hand, anyone who has ventured away from home and has used an outfitter anywhere else is being a hyprocrit if he then complains when it happens in his back yard. Plain and simple.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

I have never used an outfitter and never plan to. I have hunted away from home and hunted with a friend but i have never outright paid cash out of my pocket to hunt. I see very good points from the both of you. I personally dont think an outfitter should get any more preferance the Joe Blow from across the border or down the street.

RE: Illinois closer to $504.25 NR deer license total
 

Thats my point. A non-resident client paying for a hunt should not get preference over a non-resident not using an outfitter. Since both will be paying the same price for a hunting license and permit, both should be treated the same in acquiring those permits.