Cougars in Illinois?
 

Lately more and more articles are showing up about Mt.Lions or cougars making their way into the midwest. Granted, the Mississippi plays a big part in keeping them West, but what about us Illinois and Missouri hunters? Anyone seeing them? I know the rare occurences and rumors are always floating around, but does anyone have evidence or a story they would like to share? I almost think DNR keep findings or sighting quiet. What do you guys or gals think?

Thanks,

behinde my buddies shed in their timber thers tracks from a big cat..havnt seen em yet...in southern IL

There have been 3 confirmed cougars killed in the state of IL. One hit by a train, one killed by a bowhunter, and one killed by police in Chicago. All were tested and were indeed wild.

They are here. The DNR has no reason to hide anything. The cat killed in Chicago was positively traced back to a sighting in a barn in WI thru it's DNA. The cat had scraped itself escaping thru a hole in a barn when the owner startled it and left behind enough tissue to get DNA. When they shot the cat in a backyard in Chicago the DNA was checked and it matched alright. So it is testiment to the travels these cats can and do make.

The Mississippi may keep a good divide from the west but what you are most likely to see in IL here are cats of what I think they call the eastern cougar or "florida cougar".

Let me dig up a little info.

Here is some info from an officer with the IDNR Police:

Almost a simple answer----, we do not have a viable breeding population of mountain lions or cougars (same thing) in Illinois--have not for a long time. Reread that sentence, I did not say you won't find them in Illinois--I said there is not a viable breeding population. That said, we have had 3 documented mountain lions killed in Illinois in the last 10 years--I believe 2 were south american species (speculated that someone released them) and one originated from a population in the Black Hills of South Dakota (a young male--likely traveled here on its own, they are known to range far.)

Cougars are not protected in Illinois under the Wildlife Code.

HOWEVER, there is the Western mountain lion and the Eastern mountain lion (sorry I don't know the Latin species names). The Western obviously occurs out west in strong numbers and is hunted and managed in the western states. The Eastern is only found in southern Florida from a very, very limited population. The Eastern mountain lion is Federally protected as an endangered/threatened species. Therefore the Eastern mountain lion is protected in Illinois as well as Federally under the Endangered/Threatened species act.
Now that I've said all of that, the odds of you seeing a mountain lion are very, very small. I've investigated numerous complaints and spend a large amount of time outdoors and have never seen one or sign/evidence of one. It is even far more unlikely that it would be the endangered/threatened Eastern mountain lion. It would be much more likely to be a Western or South American species that would not be protected in Illinois.
So, to answer your question, yes you could shoot a mountain lion in Illinois if it is not an Eastern mountain lion. If you did shoot one, immediately call the local game warden or biologist and they can do the appropriate studying and testing to determine the species and, (every bit as important), possibly investigate other clues as to how it got there. Will you get in trouble? No, not if you have the permission of the landowner/tenant and it does not turn out to be an Eastern, (the chances of that are very low as I mentioned above.)
If you have any other detailed questions regarding mountain lions, you can try to contact Dr. Clay Neilson at SIU Carbondale, or get a copy of the June 2006 Missouri Conservationist which has an extremely good article about mountain lions. I hope that helps.

More from the IDNR officer:

For what its worth, I spoke to an expert (only one expert) on Mountain Lions and the answer I got surprised me tremendously. He referred to the Eastern Mountain Lion as Florida Panthers (mountain lion, cougars, panthers etc all refer to the same animal) and stated he did not believe genetic testing could show it to be distinctly separate from the Western Mountain Lion. He also said that there would be no obvious external differences. However, that was only one expert (trust me, this is his field of study, he's an expert) so I'm going to check into this further with USFWS.
As far as destruction of private property, it's a 2-way street, they can't let their critter roam at will, doing whatever it wants. Kind of like letting a cow or horse wander and eat up a farmers crop or stand in the road causing an accident. I know several years ago we had a CPO who killed a tiger--got the complaint call and showed up to see a multi-hundred pound tiger had escaped and killed a horse and a chained canine, apparently it showed interest in him and he didn't wait to see if he was next on the menu. It was in southeastern Illinois (Jasper County area) about 4-6 years ago and if you dig around you can probably find the newspaper article on it.

Here is the link to the June 2006 Missouri Conservationist article:

http://mdc.mo.gov/conmag/2006/06/20.htm

I caught this image of what is believed to be a black (florida) panther on the farm in S. IL. Very characteristic picture with the low posture and long tail.

chicagotribune.com

Cops kill cougar on North Side

Neighborhood stunned as animal cornered, shot in back alley

By Jeremy Manier and Tina Shah
Tribune reporters
April 15, 2008

A cougar ran loose in Chicago on Monday for the first time since the city's founding in the 19th Century. But by day's end, the animal lay dead in a back alley on the North Side, shot by police who said they feared it was turning to attack.

No one knew where the 150-pound cat came from, though on Saturday Wilmette police had received four reports of a cougar roaming that suburb, roughly 15 miles from the site of Monday's shooting.

Whatever its origin, the 5-foot-long cougar's unlikely journey ended in the Roscoe Village neighborhood, where residents reported sightings throughout the day to the Chicago Commission on Animal Care and Control. Resident Ben Greene said police cornered the cougar shortly before 6 p.m. in his side yard on the 3400 block of North Hoyne Avenue.

Greene said he heard a volley of gunfire as he was bathing his 10-month-old son. His wife, Kate, ran upstairs screaming with their 3-year-old son, and they all took cover in a back room.

"At first, I'm thinking there's a gun battle in the street," said Greene, who owns a trucking company.

As the shots stopped, Greene heard the police yelling, "We got him! We got him!" He ventured downstairs and moved on his knees to the front door, where he saw police on his lawn. The officers had shot holes in an air conditioning unit on the side of Greene's house while aiming for the tan cougar, which died in the alley near Greene's garage.

Chicago Police Capt. Mike Ryan said the cougar tried to attack the officers when they tried to contain it. Police said they could not tranquilize the animal because police officers typically do not carry tranquilizer guns. Police said no one, including officers, was hurt and they did not know the cougar's gender.

"It was turning on the officers," Ryan said. "There was no way to take it into custody."

Normally reclusive creatures, most cougars retreated to habitats in the Rocky Mountains and Black Hills early in American history. But some researchers believe overcrowding in recent years has driven the animals back east.

Two cougars have been killed in Illinois in the last decade. In 2000, a train struck and killed one in Randolph County in southern Illinois, and in 2004 a bow hunter killed a cougar in Mercer County in western Illinois.

But in the previous century, there had been no confirmed sightings in Illinois of a cougar, which is also known as a puma, mountain lion or panther. The last known appearance of the animal was in 1864 at the southern end of the state.

The Wilmette and Chicago sightings capped a flurry of recent cougar activity in the area, though no one knows if that was all the same animal. Several people reported seeing a cougar at the end of March in North Chicago, about 20 miles north of Wilmette. A Wisconsin trapper came face to face with a cougar in January, about 25 miles from the Illinois border.

That trapper said the cat bounded away 12 feet at a leap.

Starting early Monday, frightened Roscoe Village residents began calling police with reports of a cougar which was bounding over high fences in the neighborhood. Greene said his wife got an e-mail alert about the animal Monday morning through a neighborhood watch list.

Frank Hirschmann, 50, of the 3500 block of North Seeley Avenue saw the animal pass by his home.

"I was sitting on the porch, and all of a sudden he crossed the street, and hurdled a 6-foot fence like nothing," Hirschmann said. He said he then ran into his house and watched police chase the cougar on foot.

Animal control officials were not sure if the cougar was wild or an escaped pet, though they noted that it is illegal to keep the animals as pets. It's unclear how a cougar could have traveled south into Chicago from Wilmette, but the areas are connected by a Metra train route, on which the cougar could have walked, and a waterway.

Ben Greene's neighbor, Romeo Dorazio, had just gotten home from dinner when he heard about 10 gunshots.

"I knew it was really nearby. I walked to the window and saw a cougar," Dorazio said. "It was the freakiest thing I ever saw."

James Reynolds was sitting in his living room when he heard what seemed like "fireworks popping."

The 45-year-old went out in his back yard and saw a cougar attempting to jump from his neighbor's fence to his. He knew it was a cougar because he had seen it on the Discovery Channel, he said.

Officers shouted for him to go inside his house, and he saw them kill the cougar in about 10 shots.

A spokesman for the Illinois Department of Natural Resources said Monday that the state's current wildlife code does not protect cougars because they are not considered a normal part of the ecosystem here. The official said the only state regulations that might come into play would be gun ordinances, but because police did the shooting that issue is moot. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service lists the Eastern cougar as endangered. But police could not confirm whether the cougar shot Monday was an Eastern cougar.

Greene said he agreed with the police decision to kill the cougar.

"As far as I witnessed, they did a pretty good job," Greene said. "Hypothetically, if there were kids in the yard and the cougar jumps in, what would the cougar have done?"

Tribune reporter Jeremy Gorner contributed to this report.

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You tube of the Chicago cougar

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8SyLtekucw

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Biologists have confirmed that a cougar shot to death by Chicago police came into the city by way of Wisconsin.
The Cook County Department of Animal and Rabies Control says a DNA sample obtained from the cougar was a match to a sample from a cougar seen in southern Wisconsin's Rock County on January 18th.
Animal control administrator Dr. Donna Alexander says officials hope additional testing can further delineate the cougar's genealogy and paint a better picture of his life.
The remains of the 124-pound, 5-foot-4-inch male cat have been transferred to the Field Museum.
Chicago police shot the cougar as it ran through a residential North Side neighborhood on April 15th.

time to carry a pistol while bow hunting deer in IL?

I hear they're here, how many I wonder?

If the state knows something and isn't informing us hunters about them, and a child or hunter etc...gets attacked and killed, something will hit the fan!

Have you ever shared this before Matt? That is one cool pic and I'm glad I got to see it because the only cat I've ever seen in IL. was black just like this one. Wow!!

That's what happens when the states restrict hunting on these animals or ban it all together. It sucks for the animal that it has to be taken down by several inaccurate shots from cops that can't shoot instead of one skillfully placed shot from a hunter. But that's the way it is. :nonono2:

It has happened many times already with not just cougars. The "something" hits the fan for a little while until people have had enough time to forget about it and then it just goes back to the way it was. Liberals impose restrictive hunting regulations based on inaccurate numbers from biased surveys and the numbers of these animals comes back up. So much so that again they come back to residential neighborhoods in search of food and we have another incident.

Cougars in particular are extremely territorial. Most of the Cougars found in populated areas like that are believed to have been pushed there by larger Toms protecting their territory. It's either move out or get killed.

Uncle Matt, that Chicago Cougar was killed a few blocks from my old apartment. (If you saw my other post, I live in Chicago and one of the burbs) I knew some of the Cops that were going after it. That was a crazy day in my neighborhood.

In January I was out pulling down a tree stand right outside of Chicago and found some tracks that are AWFULLY strange. If any of you have knowledge in what big cat tracks look like when they are walking, let me know. Each track is over two feet apart and they run in a straight line, at one point walking along a log. The tracks arent perfect due to the snow but man, they sure look interesting. The Funny thing is that in October and November I had deer on my trail cam every night, then around the beginning of December until January I had exactlly one deer on them. If anyone wants me to post a pic, I'll put a few up. You can be the judge.

Here is a cougar print (top) vs a dog track (bottom).





Mountain Lion (top image)

1. Claw marks generally absent. If present, they will be sharp and narrow.
2. Four tear-drop shaped toes, grouped asymmetrically.
3. Trapezoidal-shaped heel pad.
4. Three-lobed heel pad with two indentations along rear margin.

Dog (bottom image)

1. Toenail prints generally present will be broad and blunt.
2. Four, round-shaped toes, grouped symmetrically.
3. Triangular-shaped heel pad.
4. Heel pad lacks distinct indentations and three-lobed appearance.

And definately post up those pics of the tracks you found.

No way. A CPO would surely arrest you here in IL.

I've shared it a time or 2. No one believes in it because they are all sold on cougars NOT being black. But I'm open minded.

let's see these pics!!!!

how can we have a pistol deer season but can't carry a pistol while hunting the countryside? wilderness?

we'll get our concealed carry one of these days...

It is because regardless of Illinois great majority of rural area every friggin detail is dictated by Chicago, it's corrupt systems and corrupt politicians starting with Mayor Daley. Because Chicago can't keep from dribbling all over themselves the whole state has to wear the bib.

If you want to get CC passed we all have to stand together. It will be work and will take time. Go to the meetings like the one salukis posted up here. Check his link.....

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/midw...y-meeting.html

Not to start a fight or anything, but it wasn't as easy as that when the cops took the shots at this thing. I got the story the news didn't talk about, but may have depending on what outlet you saw it.

The cat had been spotted and all sorts of cops were trying to track it down. Finally 2 cops spotted it cutting between 2 houses (houses in this neighborhood are VERY close together, usually 6 or so feet as most. When the Cops came on it the cat was darting to get away and about to jump a fence at around 50 feet. They didn't have any time to get sharp shooters or tranq guns. They had to get a shot off fast before the cat disappeared again and with how much news was going on around this, they had to kill it before mass pandamonem (sp) broke out. The guys that took the shot were good shots, they just had to shoot immediately with a handgun in a alleyway 6 feet wide and if that cougar turned it would be on them in 2 seconds. You'd be a little shaken too if your 50 feet from a cougar and it has no where to go but straight at you.

Don't mean to sound rude, but I knew who these cops were and believe me, when they woke up that day they didn't think they'd be face to face in a 6 ft alley with a cougar. I and many of the other hunters around there praised them, it couldn't have been easy.

Uncle Matt, I'll try and uplaod the photos in the next few days. Unfortunately with the snow melting the way it was a few weeks ago the tracks are very great but I have good pics of the trail of whatever this animal was. Im going to try and get out there again this week and see what I can find.

That is absolutely,positively without a doubt a small common house cat.

There has never been any evidence of a black mountain lion existing.Melanistic traits do not exist in cougars.That's a fact.Florida panthers are not black.

Doug I agree 100% there is not such thing as a black Florida Panther or black mountain lion in north america. Pike

Sorry it took so long, but Ive been swamped with work. Here are some of the pictures I took earlier last month. I wish I would have gotten out there before we had a warm day. The tracks themselves are about 20 inches apart from each other and front track to rear track is about 65 inches. There are no big dogs that live in the neighborhood. The biggest one is a German shorthair and it is never far from its house, but these are way to big for a shorthair. On a good day, you can make it to the Sears Tower in 30 minutes from where these pictures are taken. If they aren't from a big cat, sorry about it, they are just nothing like Ive seen before here in the Midwest, Especially in backyards in the greater Chicagoland area.

Also, there are some coyotes that live in the neighborhood and the tracks cross here and there and you can tell when they cross there is a BIG difference in the tracks. Let me know what you guys think. Im up for suggetions of what it is.

Uncle Matt, quick question for you. Im not sure the answer to this put have heard peoples views. If you are shotgun hunting for deer aren't you allowed to carry a sidearm that is legally large enough for deer? I can see not being able to carry a .22 or .38 but If Im carrying a .45 which is legal to shoot deer in Illinois, isn't that legal? Again, Ive never carried a handgun hunting in Illinois but Im pretty sure that in Michigan, Wyoming and Kansas if it is a legal caliber to shoot a deer you are legal to carry in during the Firearm season. Bow season I completely understand not being legal to carry one but Firearm it should be OK. Not that I would ever carry one but just thought Id ask.

Also, I think Matt hunts around where I have hunted in Southern Illinois and the property owner of a piece of land that I have hunted has said in the last 10 years there have been a couple instances where he has seen a BIG black cat, larger than a house cat on a track of his land. He said that he doesn't tell anybody because he isn't there to brag about it but he has lived there his whole life and this is far different from a house cat.

When I was in school at U. of Kansas there was documented evidence of a large black cat in Douglas county. There were about a dozen good pictures of it over a couple years and it was some sort of large panther/cougar type cat. The crazy thing about it was that one spring it was spotted with 3 kittens. Now the large cat was declawed from the tracks they had found in the previous couple of years, but the kittens all had there claws. It had to have meant there was another large cat roaming the hills that no one ever saw.

Well yes you can indeed carry a handgun during firearms deer season. But not during archery as salukipv1 posted! You may also not carry a handgun when hunting the muzzleloader only season. You mentioned a .45 which would only be legal in a revolver and not an automatic.

Here's some info on legal handguns for deer hinting in IL:

Centerfire revolvers or centerfire single-shot
handguns of .30 caliber or larger with a minimum

barrel length of 4 inches.

And legal handgun ammo for IL:

For handguns, a bottleneck centerfire cartridge
of .30 caliber or larger with a case length not exceeding
1.4 inches, or a straight-walled centerfire
cartridge of .30 caliber or larger, both of
which must be available as a factory load with
the published ballistic tables of themanufacturer
showing a capability of at least 500 foot pounds
of energy at the muzzle.Note:There is no case

length limit for straight-walled cartridges.

Now those tracks you posted sure look interesting to me. I can't see the track imprint itself enough to say anything. But I don't believe a dog would usually walk on top of a fallen tree like that. And it looks like whtever was there kinda lept up onto the log from the spacing of the tracks showing very good balance.

I have no doubts that there are cougars in IL. And alot more than people may believe. They are rather secretive and don't roam open fields so not seeing them much isn't anything unusual. They don't put themselves on display. In the next 5-10 years I think peoples opinions will change quite a bit as evidence stacks up.

No black cats? Yep. And no cats in Il either.........

I would agree that there is a rising population of cougars in IL. I have heard a lot of sighting in my area LaSalle/Bureau counties. I would love to get one on camera.

Seriously,there's no such thing as a black mountain lion.They simply don't exist.They don't have the melanistic gene.

Cat's do not show claws in their tracks.

I agree with you, I never said there was a black mountain, even though I think that would be a pretty cool sight!

I'm not saying you did.Uncle Matt was trying to make that claim and I'm simply saying that there's no such thing.That picture is of a house cat.It's not even close to being disputable.

I'm not making the claim that you don't have mountain lions in Ill.There has obviously been concrete proof.I'm just saying people are not really seeing mystical creatures that don't exist.

This guy is something else. Next thing there will be no pink elephants. Holes will be blown in the whole Bigfoot deal. And Obama will be a good president.

I don't think anyone was claiming there was a black mountain Lion, maybe a black panther. There have been reports across the US of people releasing panthers that they thought would make great "Pets" and thought they would fair better for themselves in a state park or a wide open area. This is what I believe to be a lot of sightings of big black cats across the midwest. Thats what was being claimed for the Big Cat that was roaming around 25 miles west of Lawrence KS where I went to school.

Personally, I think that there may be a big black cat or two roaming around down in southern Illinois. There is a forum on a website that only covers S. IL hunting and there are some pretty convincing stories and photos. I don't want to give away locations but the gentleman that I heard it from was within the Saline/Williamson County area in Southern Illinois. Im not sure if thats the general area that Uncle Matt hunts, but again, the gentleman that told me this I trust completely so I believe he is true. Another weird thing that they have told me about the farm which is VERY big is that they never find a deer carcass, ever, and with the HIGH population of deer on this farm, there is something weird about that, plus they RARELY ever see a coyote. Now, Im not saying this proves one way or another but just kind of interesting.

I have seen some BIG black Feral house cats as well. We finally got one we have been chasing for 2 years last year (In Michigan). This cat was known to stalk deer and try to take them down! It never did take one down but this cat thought it was a frickin' lion. I saw it attempt this once, it was pretty insane. When we finally got him in a trap, I couldn't believe his size. Was almost the size of a coyote! Almost a shame to put it down. So personally, I believe there are big black cats like panthers or cougars out there, but I also think that there are some extremely big Feral cats out there as well.

Uncle Matt, by the way that Obama comment made me laught out loud!

I have personally had a bowhunting stalk blown by a ditch cougar ie housecat stalking the same deer, but one the size of a coyote?? C'mon....

Spaniel, believe me, if someone on here said it, I wouldn't believe it either. I wish I would have snapped a picture of it after we "dispatched" it with a .357. It was beyond any typical house cat I have ever seen. Next time I'll be sure to get a picture, but I don't think I'll see anything the size of this thing for a long time.

I have no reason to call you a liar, I'm just trying to imagine a 30+ lb cat.


Maine coon cat perhaps? Males can go 25lb-ish.