WI Whitetail Population
 

The DNR is really getting it in the press these days with the lowest total kill count in 27 years!.

I just finally found the number I've been wanting to know: the desired herd size according to the DNR: 730,000 or 733,000. If my memory serves me, they recently estimated the herd size at 1.2 million so they're looking for about a 40% herd size reduction.

As I was searching the DNR site, I also stumbled upon this chart that shows how the DNR views the population by hunting unit. Though the categories are very broad, it gives you a more specific idea how the DNR views your hunting unit than just "herd control" or "regular."

DNR= Don't Know Right

I was reading tonight about harvest numbers in the Northern end, some counties were down as much as 40 - 49% in buck harvest. Add that to last years and thats a heck of a drop in the buck deer harvest.

The state of Wi. is under such pressure from the insurance co. because of car-deer acciedents, that the DNR is only concerned about cutting the deer herd. The big ( chronic wasting scare ) didn't work to achieve what they wanted. What can we do as hunters, attend the Conservation Congress Hearings in your area and make your voice heard.:hit::hit::hit:

So what exactly is the Goal?

and don;t understand -20 tp +20 of goal......wow that is far to broad...

JW

JW,

The goals are listed in the links I have at the beginning: 733,000 deer total, statewide. That number is reached by aiming for a herd that is 60-65% of the land's carrying capacity in the forested areas. They aim for a significantly lower (but unspecified) percentage of the land's carrying capacity in agricultural and urbanized areas because those areas can carry more deer and the interaction between deer and people becomes too aggravating to the people if the percentage is that high.

The chart of hunting areas doesn't tell us squat about how many deer are in each area. It only tells us how many relative to the number the DNR would like there to be (according to DNR herd estimates).

You can, however, guess some things. It does imply some things though: for example, if you are convinced that the herd size in your unit is lower than you desire, and the chart shows you above goal or way above goal--that's bad news.

Can I get an AMEN my brother???? However the whole CWD craze is pretty much what started the ball rolling. I have seen a few bigger bucks over the past years because of the DNR's management practices but how long can you sustain a deer heard when you wipe out the ones that cause it to grow (does). Not to mention all the buck fawns that get taken to Earn-A-Buck. Add all that up over the last ten years, no wonder the press is having a field day with this and about Time I might add...

Sswpriz, that's too funny, where did you find that?

That is a great cartoon!!

Seems like the DNR will be on the hot seat come Thursday.
RC
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/79231127.html

Yes, and with appointed by the Governor, leadership in the DNR.
We will continue to have nothing but problems with a small herd size. The problem with the meeting whether they be called by the Conservation Congress or the DNR themselves.
The DNR is not listening to us as hunters. They are listening to Gov. Doyle and his cronies.

Until Doyle is replaced by a Governor who will listen to us and allow the NRB to HIRE rather than appoint a DNR Secretary we will continue to have problems.

I just love it when Warnke or Frank says in articles that they are listening to deer hunters, yet I haven't gotten an email back asking questions about the herd or why the CWD area is still in EAB. What a joke they are.

Why does the DNR need to be blamed? Why not all the hunters taking more that what they need. Shooting anything that moves.How about all the road killed deer? Are you going to stop driving to save more deer? I dout it. How about all the deer that are poached? Its not the DNR's fault. People need to accept it and try do better so the population will grow.Like not shooting little bucks and fawns. And maybe one deer is enough. How about people that use their friends and family for extra tags. How about one deer per person.Take it or leave it.

Yankees13: What I don't think you get is that many hunters this year didn't even see a deer. I will admit our hunting group used to shoot 4 or 5 deer just on opening day and it was all about filling our tags as fast as we could, but now my cousin and I are limiting ourselves to 2 deer at the most in a season and we are trying not to shoot 2 does. What alot of unhappy Wisconsin hunters can't control is neighbors. Some neighbors don't get that they should let some deer go and think that when they see a doe and a fawn they should shoot them both because they have the tags for them. The DNR has handed free doe tags out for years in the CWD area and its devastating the herd. I've learned to let deer go and I have family members who aren't happy with my decision but I just tell them that if I don't let some go there won't be as many next year. Deer hunting is Wisconsin is a complete mess right now and will be for awhile.

What you need to understand is maybe that is not a bad thing not seeing deer. Maybe too many people took advantage of the deer population when times were good now they have to blame someone other than maybe themselves. I mean think about it times are good so people complain about paying for doe tags and when times are bad they blame the dnr. I dont hunt in your state but I do hunt my own land in Mn and we have the same problem, people blaming the DNR because they took to many deer over the years.

Yankees13 I do agree with you to a point. We have too many hunters in this state that do think they need to fill every tag they have. I have little time for those people. The DNR here loves those type of hunters, they have over inflated the deer herd numbers for years and have made it possible to buy as many extra antlerless tags as you want for $2.00 each. They do that to control the herd so they say. Well they have now controlled it damn near to death. The DNR is still spouting off that we have too large of a herd and need to drastically reduce it. The DNR doesn't let up on that stance even with the public outcry and dismal harvest numbers staring them in the face.

Now onto the rest of your post. You said don't shoot small bucks or fawns. In a state where we are not seeing deer numbers where we want them to be I'll shoot a small buck over any antlerless deer anyday if given the opportunity. Here's a free biology lesson for you SMALL BUCKS DON'T CARRY FAWNS, DOES DO. There is probably lots of info on the internet on which sex has the offspring if you want to look it up. I didn't see you post not to shoot does just small bucks and fawns.

Here's a breakdown of my harvest record since 1999 before that I can't really remember. I didn't shoot a lot of deer maybe 6 or so but I saw far more deer in the 1980s and early 1990s than I see now. It's not even a comparison. You had to send in for a doe tag back then not get one or more given to you automatically. I kinda miss that.
1999- small 8 pt.
2000- nothing
2001- adult doe and small 6pt. (The only year I ever got more than one deer).
2002- The only year I didn't hunt since I started in 1983.
2003-nothing
2004- 8pt
2005- adult doe
2006- nothing
2007- nice 8pt
2008- small 9pt
2009- adult doe

I am a meat hunter not a horn hunter and have yet to find a recipe for that. I did take a doe this year and passed up a standing shot on another one. I didn't want to shoot more than one on the land I was hunting. A big set of horns is nice but I'd rather see deer numbers and get one to eat. Maybe someday I will get a big buck, maybe not. To each his own. I can use at the max 2 deer a year. My deer meat will be consumed well before next season starts.


Now about the deer getting killed by autos that has been happening forever and will continue. I think someone posted that we now have about half the car kills as we did in 2000 so our deer herd is on the decline but the DNR can't see that.

Same thing as poaching I don't think it's as widespread as what people think because the cost and risk is too big. I can see it being more of a problem for someone wanting a large rack to show off. There may be some people shooting one to get by if they're desperate for food but it nothing I see much sign of around here.

Poaching is very wide spread.I know of 7 deer shot on my land not by me. People shoot and shine all night and It is very wide spread. People do it for meat horns and fun. I bet that were my land is that there is a deer poached everyother day or more.

If poaching is that widespread by you that's a problem. It doesn't mean it's like that here. Where I hunt is not right along a road you have to walk and drag a deer aways. To me most poaching would be done close to a road. You must have a pile of deer if one can be shot every other day out of season.

Just one spot. There are several people poaching.People who do it for fun and other to do it for food. And of course you got the native americans that can shoot 5 deer a person.Thats real fair to the tax payers!!!

Report it ont he DNR Hot line.

JW

You think that shooting 5 deer a person is bad, We had a guy shoot 21 deer in 1 year of deer hunting and it was all legal cause in the CWD area you can get 4 free doe tags a day. He didn't shoot all of them by us but that is to many deer to shoot for one person. He was amish and claimed he had brothers, sisters, and cousins that could use the deer.

Yeah- Lets blame the Indians! You talk like the old market hunters of old. How do you know how many poachers there are doing the bad deeds? Sounds fishy to me. I read a post that blames the amish also, non-sense I say!

The point here is, we have killed too many deer in WI, due to a Natural Resources Dept.'s false deer numbers info. They have flat out lied to the sportsmen and women in this state, and yes we have erred by believing their propaganda.

In CWD areas they have always wanted every deer dead, period.
No deer managing there! Thank God for land owners who manage their own land.

Chew on this-We all are in this together, blaming the indians and Amish is discusting. Forget blaming each other and work together for a solution to this problem (lack of deer).:bash::fighting0007:

Deer licenses sold in WI fall 2009:638,040 gun licenses and 204,833 bow licenses.
Almost 850,000 licenses. And people wonder why the herd might be down? Maybe we have too many hunters. I know the NRA/SCI and many hunting shows are saying we don't have enough hunters. You must remember they are all trying to sell something, and don't forget it.
I've said it again and again, you DON'T HAVE TO SHOOT. If you are in an area that you think has low deer numbers then don't shoot, heck don't even buy a license. Get all the guys in your group to do the same for one year. Pitch your license money together and buy a few trail cams so that you can moniter your deer a little better (the camera will last several years, so it is an investment, an unused tag is just a waste).
The DNR can not force you hunt or shoot anything. Just because it's legal to shoot 10 deer, doesn't mean that it is a good idea. Cigarettes are legal but that doesn't mean it is a good idea to smoke them.

i really dont think its the number of hunter. the number has actually gone down in the last 10 yrs. 690,194 gun licenses and 185,122 bow licenses were sold in 1999.http://dnr.wi.gov/org/es/enforcement...eer_report.pdf
thats a total of 875,316.

its the way we hunt. the "if i dont shoot it the next guy will" attitude is the problem. ive done it. now ive got a 13 year old that wants to shoot deer and its hard to tell him not to. maybe someday he'll understand. no we dont have to shoot. but then why go hunting. im not sitting in a stand for my health. im there to shoot a deer. i have past many deer in the last 10 years. but the number of deer i see every year keeps getting fewer and fewer. its very frustrating. considering all the deer i have let go. i personally think it all comes down to money. if there was some way to hit the dnr in the pocket book then they would listen to the hunters. the state makes over $21,000,000 a year in licenses sale. if there was a way to greatly affect that number they would listen then. until then most of us are just giving our money way. and i dont like giving my money away. for the record i hunted with my son this year from the same stand. we saw 3 deer and we shot 2 of them. he shot one i shot one. it was his first deer. one shot, a good quick kill. ive never had so much fun while hunting until that day. ive never seen that kid so excited before. i will NEVER tell someone what to shoot or what not to shoot.

Until you have amish as a neighbor and see first hand what they can do to a deer herd I stand by my statement that they have ruined deer hunting where I hunt.

I went out for a drive today and saw something that is a factor in the lack of deer. - I saw a deer pole with thirteen antlerless deer still hanging on it.

Now, why would anyone need that many deer and then just leave em' hang there. The thing that really gets me is the DNR has promoted this behavior by handing out unlimited tags for little or nothing. Yeah, no one made them shoot all these deer, it was a uneducated decision made by unethical hunters, in my opinion.

I am calling the local warden and have em' watch to see if the deer are wasted.

So there you have it, unethical hunters, doing the dirty deeds of our DNR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bash::bash::bash:

I agree. Looking at the chart from the original post I notice that the red zone or the areas that are the highest over goals is the most populated by humans as well. I do not believe that there are more deer in Grant County than there are in Sawyer County. Just more people. It is about money to those that make the laws. Insurance companies spend more money lobbying than nearly any other industry in America. Hence, the urgency for our legislature and DNR to kill deer in areas that have the highest DVC's (deer vehicle crashes).

I will also agree on the Native american thing, We have some native american res. around my house and they shoot TONS of deer, god father said they hunt wherever they want and kill whatever they want, one indian said he shot 31 deer by the time gun season rolled around, 22 of them were bucks... so whos to blame?!?!?

"tons of deer?" second hand information? Who's to blame? this is an uneducated post.

First of all, the native Americans, as a general rule respect our natural resources more than any white man. I am a white man who has read and am informed on this subject. Race has nothing to do with violators!! People who violate are greedy and selfish.
The Native Americans were here first and history will back me up on this one, they only take what they need. Sure there are violators of every race, however, we need to be careful not to lump a whole race into the problem.:wink:

I completely agree. i hunt in an area that has plenty of Amish and not only will they shoot every deer that they see in a season, but they are willing to trespass to do it. Once the guys I hunt with clear out they are all over land that is not theirs.

Also, the best way to manage deer is to manage your trigger finger.

You sir, have obviously never hunted in Washington State, where they take more fish and game than they could ever eat. Regardless of who was "here first" this land is not theirs and they are no better stewards of that land. If they were then would the reservations look as they do? I have seen the decimation to some smaller elk herds done by small groups of Native Americans, AND White folks. As far as only taking what they need, then can you explain why the Makah Indians took a whale? did they "need" that whale. Do the Puyallup Indians need to take hundreds of thousands of Salmon? the answer is, No they don't but they do. Because they can.

You are correct about the amish walking on land they can't hunt. We catch them on our land every year but our grandpa who owns the land says he has to be a good neighbor and not complain and they amish know this so they do it anyway. Also one amish was joking about how he said he had a trigger finger because he shot 4 deer with his gun.

Spoken like a true "cracker" A native American should never take more that he or she needs (save it for the Cracker) I am not sure if the Native American is a better steward or not, but I do know they couldn't be much worse!!! before you start knocking the reservations take a look at your own ghettos, and don't forget it was the "cracker" who created them, Why? because the native American were eating to much Game!!! give me a break!!!, The crackers want to get rid of the wolves, coyotes, eagles, hawks, why??? they are eating too much of the "Crackers" game, by the looks of this post the Amish may be next. The Maskah take a whale (Big F'ing deal) because it is part of there heritage. It seems to me the "Cracker" holds lotteries for High rolling "Crackers" to hunt some of our more exotic animals. Yes the Native American takes a lot of salmon, Have you ever seen the "Crackers" net fish in AK??? well, it is all but done now, The Cracker over fished!!! go try and catch a cod in the north Atlantic, Oh bow to the Great Cracker, but don't take his deer or fish.

I think you hunters from Wisconsin should wake up, the dnr is doing the right thing, the state was being overrun with stunted, diseased animals, I think they want to wipe out the herd and start over, for years it was DEER SHOOTING, NOT DEER HUNTING!!!! You are going to have to learn to hunt, Oh wait a minute--- it was the wolves, coyotes, Native Americans, The Amish, Uh--well--uh could it be me????? Oh NO Not the cracker!!!!!!!! Doc
Doc

Then dnr makes the rules, they can be responsible or not.

I've heard for years that 750,000 is the number that must be reached to have a herd that can be hit hard and recover. Funny they chose a lower number like that.

Why would the state not play both sides? Hunters won't stop buying tags and those that want the herd smaller wont stop trying to "influence" the state to do it. As long as there's money to be made you can forget any loyalty.

Have said for years hunters are there own enemies because they can't shut up, we just have to brag and boast and doing that to a politician is bad medicine. If the government of WI didn't know how obsessed you guys are about deer hunting and your addiction to it, you'd probably never here a word about it. But your like crack addicts and they know it. They sell the bad medicine you desire. So what if they cut it with crap, you'll still buy it and they can seel some to whoever else wants some deal.