WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

They treed him once but he got away, this should get interesting!




Mountain lion spotted near Spooner
By Paul A. Smith of the Journal Sentinel
Mar. 5, 2009 11:55 a.m.

A mountain lion has been spotted near Spooner and is being pursued Thursday by Department of Natural Resources wildlife biologists.

The animal's tracks were initially spotted Monday by a homeowner in his yard near Trego, according to a DNR report. On Tuesday, a team of hounds followed the trail and treed the cougar.

DNR officials were then notified and took up pursuit of the animal Wednesday; attempts to capture the lion were unsuccessful, said Jim Bishop, DNR public affairs officer in Spooner, and are continuing Thursday.

Bishop said the wildlife officials intend to tranquilize the animal, take blood and hair samples, affix a radio collar and then release it. The animal is described as a 130-pound male.

The mountain lion, also known as cougar, catamount and puma, has a large breeding population in the Black Hills of South Dakota and has been spreading east into Midwestern states in recent years. A male cougar was verified near Janesville last year; it was later killed by police in Chicago.

There is no hunting season for mountain lion in Wisconsin.

The photo below was taken by Matt McKay of the DNR.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

These idiots want to release it??!! How many other Mt. Lions have been caught and released here in WI? They have their precious wolves and coyotes to destroy the deer population, do we need any more predators?

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I heard from the (coyote hunters) that treed this cat, that the DNR tried to shoot it with a blow gun tranquilizer. How will the DNR try to say there are no couger in WI. Do you think this kitty walked all the way from montana? Maybe they will say it's someones pet that got away. Maybe the trueth is this cat and others have been released here, YA THINK. What do cougers eat? I think the DNR has egg on their face from this one. I myself don't believe anything they say anymore!

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Considering that Panthers have been documented in Iowa and nothern Illinois for the last decade or so, I would tend to go with the assumption that they did, in fact, walk to Wisconsin.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

What do you want the DNR to do kill it??? I for one hope they do indeed catch it and collar it, then, yes, release it!

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Yes I do. The deer already have enough factors working against them. We don't need any more. Oh, and remember, Mt. Lions attack and kill people you know. Its only a matter of time before they become a threat.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

The DNR was bound to finally admit that there were cougars in Wisconsin. There were so many reports of possible sightings, that SOME of them had to be true. I hope they do catch it and collar it, so when they find a different one, they can't argue that its the same one. Hey Centauri, do youown the shirt and hat that have your quote about the wolves on it? I've seen them in a few stores in northern wisconsin.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Kill the cat because it kills deer to eat... give me a break![:'(]

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Real intelligent statement. There are more documented cases of family pets killing humans than there are of Mt. Lions.

These cats are just making a come back to their native home. Wonder what this great land once was before the white man totally iniolated the native americans, cougars, bears, elk, bison, wolves...... and the list just keeps going on. Unfortunately Centauri, it's not up to you to decide what lives and where they live. I for one hope to see a wild cougar in my neck of the woods in my lifetime. I'll give each one of them a deer a week. Lord knows we got plenty to spare in IL.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Nothing wrong with a few Mtn. lions roaming the country side. I'd rather have cougars than wolves any day.;)

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Would you be willing to give them one or two horses or beef a month if you had livestock? Getting the wildlife officals to admit that your livestock was killed by a wolf or mountain lion is almost impossible. One guy had a mountain lion standing over a calf it had just killed and waseating it. The wildlife officials denied his claim as there was no proof it was killed by a mountain lion. Even when they do pay a claim, the money is less than the real value of the lifestock taken.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Good point country1, very good point. Since I'm not a livestock farmer I can not answer your question. I can however see their point when something like this happens. I'm not against hunting wolves or Mt. Lions. Controlled hunting has to be done for these animals just like every other animal. But, loosing livestock shouldn't warrant the complete irradication of a species, should it? It's a fine line I guess and you made an excellent point.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

x2... My dad's co-worker has a trail cam pic of a mountain lion in southern ohio (brown county). I didnt believe it until I saw the picture with my own eyes. I definitely think they can spread and adapt for diffferent terrains, just like coyotes, bears, and wolves

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I think cougers have a place like the wolf. However in a populated area or in an area with farms they will be shot on site. Is this right? Well if your kids were in danger or if your livelyhood was threatened, what would you do? A couger will kill people, and little kids playing could provoke an attack. I would be very uneasy if one was near me. The thing that bothers me is, how did they get here? Did the DNR stock them here? I don't know the answer to these questions, but I find it unlikely that they have re-established them selves here on their own. We'll never know will we!;););)

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I live about 6 miles due west of Chicago and I saw what I'm almost POSITIVE was a cougar 4 years ago. I'm not suprised at all about one being verified in Wisconsin. And I agree with Lance and BowhuntingFool. I can't imagine why they WOULDN'T have just walked here. And I too hope they just release it and see where it goes and what it does and learn about it. We have plenty enough deer in these states to (obviously) sustain a few cougars. They aren't going to hurt the herd. In fact, I'd think it'll help keep the numbers down a little more. They'll grab the weakest ones and the sick ones first, right?

I'd like to see one myself. There have been reported sightings around Kankakee River State Park for years now, with a few reports of pairs of cats. I've been hunting out there for years now. I'd easily believe there's a breeding population out there. The habitat is perfect for them.

If they collar this one, they'll be able to learnalot about cougars in the Midwestfrom it. I know the males especially range pretty far. I can't wait to see how this turns out. But I'm all for letting it go.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

The DNR for years have denied claims of cougar sightings. You have to understand, the average Joe that lives in the area,that walks around the woods, that watched as many nature shows about cougarsas the DNR does, can not have the skills or knowledgeto spot one, report it, and be found creditable. After all mountain lion spotted can be confused with.... :eek: with :eek: oh yes, deer. Same color.

The DNR, with their infinite wisdom,has to have it run up a tree and photos taken in the presence of witnesses before they finally admit to their existence in the State.

At least we know so far, there is only one. After all the DNR counted this one cougarand we all know how good they are at counting things like cougars and deer, etc. Lets hope they used the right formula this time. Well I hate to tell you, but as my Dad used to say, if you see one rat in the barn, there's five more you never spotted.

And they want to collar it and tag it. That way they can spend hundreds, perhaps thousands of dollars of our alreadycashstrapped economyto track this one cougar as it wanders the country side feeding only on wild game prey. After all what else is there to eat other then game prey in crowed Midwestern farm land?

Cougars move to new areas when the area they are currently in is too populated by other males and breeding females. So when they are driven out of an area for a new territory, its normally for a new food source. Also they want a new territory for other reasons... breeding. So this one cougar just walked over here for a meal? Sure, I believe that. The DNR has denied their existence ina large, hundreds of square mile area, and this one decided to take a walk all they way past that unclaimed area,all the way to Spooner for a deer dinner.

Now all of you people that want cougars wandering around the State of Wisconsin, I want you to think of a different scenario...

Area with low deer numbers (like around my house), a viable cougar population in the area, lack of prey animals, (cougars need prey remember) cougars are not fussy about prey... now its your child waiting out at the end of the drivewayin the early morning for the bus to come pick them up and take him to school. How many children are you willing to let the cougars have? Is one too many, maybe two? How about one every three years? What's you limit? Or perhaps it will be ok if they just chase the kids and your pets?

Campers in cougar territory, fisherman along our lakes and streams, hunters sitting on stands (cougars climb trees too), hikers, bikers, all easy prey. Believe me, cougars hunt and kill people. And if your shaking your head right now saying it will never happen. Dream on. It can happen.

I will bet that if a human is killed by a cougar, the DNR will claim the cougarwas old, sick, confused,bad teeth, injured, or suffering from post traumatic stress syndrome. And then of course.. you can't prove it was a cougar that ate your child. Cougars hunt and kill anything they can stalk. Cougars are one of natures finest predators. Small children are easy prey to them. Even adults for that matter. Keep that in mind when your out gathering mushrooms, maple syrup, or hunting for horns.

So lets tag this ONE and then spend thousands to track it as it wanders the country side. And yes, Wisconsin did at one time have a healthy cougar population. Of course this argument does not hold water. When we had a viable cougar population, what do you guess was the human population density at the time? How many cities and towns were around? How many people wandered the woods and fields into areas where there was a chance they could interact with a cougar? There is a reason our ancestors wiped them out. Cougars kill!! They kill wildlife, domestic animals, but most of all people as well. How many class A predator's like; humans, bear, wolves, and now cougar does an area need.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Ok so your point is that because cougars can and will attack humans they should be exterpated from the area? What about bears? The can and will attack humans or rutting bucks they can and will attack humans or the farmer's 2000lb bull it can and will attack humans............see my point? I don't think Wi. will ever be in danger of having too many cougars.........wolves yes, cougars probably not in my or my grandchildrens lifetimes.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Stop drinking the DNR's Kool-Aid guys. They will never, ever admit that there are too many predators in Wisconsin.Maybe you people who disagree with me should go out and see whatwolves have done to thenortherndeer population.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

What about bears you ask. I think any wildlife biologist (other then the DNR's) will admit while a bear has a prey instinct drive, it is much different then that found in a mountain lion. If you ask anyone who spends time or lives in bear country, bear while dangerous, are not the aggressive hunter of people as a mountain lion is. Normally a face to face confrontation of human VS black bear has underlying reasons. Let me ask you... If you had a choice of which one you would have to face with, which would it be. 99% of the people would pick the bear. You yell and wave your arms and bears run off. Will a cougar? Lets hope so. Cougars hunt people as a food source. Bears normally do not.

Rutting Bucks.. here again, you are listing special circumstances. The animal is in mating mode, and see you as a rival or threat. NOT A FOOD SOURCE. Would you not agree with that statement. The rutting buck is not hunting you down to eat you. And if given the chance, would probably run the other way. Yes, or no?

The farmers 2000 pound bull... first off that creature is not running loose among untrained personal is it? No of course not. Its fenced in. But let me ask you. If that creature is suddenly loose in the city and can not be captured or cornered.. do you know what the police sometimes do to it, to protect the public? That's right.. they shoot it. Also those people that are normally injured by one are interacting with that animal because it is part of their profession. They are not walking in the woods or waiting for the school bus. Also to the best of my knowledge, bulls are not HUNTING humans as a source of food. Their attacks are based on a totally different set of values.. Yes, or No?

Even Timber Wolves.. the ones I have seen in the wild (while a PITA) have fled from the sight of humans. Although that is not always the case. And I suspect that if the future you will see incidents involving them As they too are a Class A predator.

See my point. You basically say it is all right to have a class A predator among the population because there are not many of them. And my point falls back to.. this predator HUNTS humans as a food source, not encounters humans as an outside occurrence. If you knew a cougar was in your area, would you want your child waiting outside by the side of the road for a school bus, or walking home from school alone? Yes or No?

And while Wisconsin might not ever have too many cougars... How many is too many? How many attacks on livestock and heaven forbid humans, or children will it take before there are too many? Also, the DNR said the same thing about wolves. That they would never be a threat or problem to Wisconsin. What they forgot to add is.. by who's standards. If there is only ONE (like I believe that) then it would be pretty easy to solve the whole problem right now. I think a 30-06 would do it real well.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

So you think that the wolves are the reason the deer numbers are down???? What's in your Kool_Aid my friend? There are many reason the numbers are down, wolves play only a small part in it! How bout the winter kill off??? Car-deer kills?? Bears??? Coyotes??? Hunters?? with your logic cars should be banned from N.Wisconsin because they are a threat to and kill deer?? Keep reaching!

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

We have had a similar situation in western Indiana. Couple of weeks back there was a confirmed sighting and they locked schools down and such...
http://www.wibc.com/news/story.aspx?ID=1066273

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Well our Dnr finnally admitted that our deer herd was 830,000 last year not 1.5 million as they said earlier. There are large zones in Northern Wi. that have as little as 7 deer per square mile, these are area's that a few years ago were the top area's in deer kill in the entire state. Now Winter,wolves,bears, coyotes,
'fishers, bobcats and hunters have brought the deer down to this lever. Now comes the point of can the deer ever recover because of these low numbers. Probably not, at least in the next 20 years or so, This winter is again very hard on them
RC

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I hadn't heard about the possible sightings in Indiana. By the way, Terre Haute is about 60 miles north of where there were several alleged panther sightingsin Illinois a couple months back.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Cougar attacks have happened in places where they have run out of habitat because of urban sprawl or what have you........If Wi. had 10 cougars throughout the state, do you think they would find enough habitat to survive w/o resorting to hunting humans? What if you lived in montana would you eradicate all the grizzlies because they could potentially kill people????? Or how bout if you lived in Africa, would you eliminate all the dangerous game there that preys on humans? I am not saying that if a cougar were spotted close to homes or school or the population in general it shouldn't be dealt with............but to say kill it because it could potential hunt people is kind of absurd, if the cougar in question is found away from population. And as with CWD, wolves and other things the DNR wants you to believe just appeared one day, Cougars have been in Wi. for decades.Have there been any human killings or maulings reported in Wi. in all those years?????

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Ask any old timer who lives up thereabout how good the deer hunting was back then, heck, ask anyone who hunts up there how good it was. I will guarantee that they will say it was once good. Ever since the 70's and 80's, deer numbers have been progressively dropping, even more in this current decade. Wolves are not a native animal anymore, so the deer do not know the threat as it has been stamped out in their instinct. Now that they're back, they don't know if its a danger or not. As for winter, deer are very hardy animals and they know how to survive. Car deer kills play only a small part, maybe some with bears, and you got me on coyotes. Its true that they're everywhere. Hunters have been playing a good role of managing the population, but we can't hunt 24/7, but predators like wolves and coyotes can and must.

Please, tell me why you support wolves.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

The mountain lion population is at an all time high,and even the wildlife officials agree this is true. There have been confirmed sightings in the U.S.from the west coast to the east coast and from the U.S./Canadian line to southern parts of the country. Even areaswithout urban sprawl havewitnessed lion encouters. Many very rural areas that have not had mountain lions now have them.Where I am from (very rural area)itis notuncommon to hear another confirmed sighting of a mountain lionin town. It is the same for other small towns in the area. The wildlife officalsalways say our area in not cat habitat, and the mountain lions that are spotted are just transient malesmoving through the area. They don't have much to say when afemale mountain lion is killed or there are pictures/video of mountain lioncubs.Roscoe Villageof Chicago hasexisted fora long time, but two or three years ago they had a mountain lion running around that neighborhood. It was finally shot and killed by the Chicago PD.

It is alarming how many lions have been shot in ND, SD, NE, etc.that were veryclose to schools or recreation paths (sometimes it was just feet away from a recreation path or across the street from the playground of an elementary school). Some werein a tree and others were hiding in tallgrass, bushes or some other cover. They have even found them in drainage ditches andculverts. I knowmore than one farmer whoexperienced a close encounter with a mountain lion intheir farm yard. I know of one hunter who shotoneless ten feetfrom him (the mountain lion was behind him). I know of other hunters who have shot a mountain lion within a few feet of them(some in front of them and some behind them). There have been confirmed cases where a deerhunter was being hunted by a mountain lion. This is one of the reasons why I strongly feel that WI and IL need to have a concealed carry law.Even without a concealed carry law, they should at leastallow bow hunters and rifle/shotgun/ml huntersto pack a loaded sidearm while afield. This should also include state andfederal lands. The wildlife officials where I am from have been quoted that it is only a matter of time before there is an attack by a mountian lion- and this is not an area with urban sprawl. IMO, the same can be said regarding the wolves.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

No disrespect intended, but, after reading the above statement, if you were to do just a small amount of research I will not need to tell you why I support the wolves!

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I guess those that live in such areas of ourState where population density is not ashigh(where I do) would be FORCED to hope that the cougars will not resort to hunting humans if the DNR has their way. The problem is in Wisconsin, we are a State of tourism and people. People wander and enjoyevery part of this state. There for you run the risk of interaction with a dangerous predator. Name me an area in this State, where this habitat exist? Where there are no people for 50 to 300 square miles (that's the male cougar's average territory claim, with females being less). Also if WI had 10 cougars this year, and 50% of them were female, and a female has three to five cubs, lets average one survives,how many would you have next year, and the year after.Also remember,aside from humans, no species preys upon mature Cougars in the wild

Now as these "isolated cougar populations" infringe on another cat's territory and span out.. Do you suspect these younger "inexperienced hunters" are going to encounter a human? Of course they will. And do you know what inexperienced hunters take as prey.. anything they can find. So lets go back to the child waiting for the bus. What if it was your child? How many cougars are too many then? How does the DNR then apologize for this little infraction of their failed policy?

Here again, you are comparing apples to oranges. Look at the population density for Montana or AfricaVS Wisconsin. Look at the amount of "wild country" in Montana. Compare that to Wisconsin and our population. Would I eradicate all the mountain lions and grizzly bears? If I lived in an area where they visited, and I had children. I would not give that animal much odds for a safe existence if I saw it. Would I be wrong? The law says I would.

And don't ever think for a minute that in Africa dangerous prey animals do not take humans. Add to that hippos, elephants, snakes, and other creatures. We might not read about it every day in the Sunday paper, but I can assure you it goes on. Watch the animal channel. There are all sorts of shows about that. Would I eradicate all of them... nope. I do not live there.


How do you want to deal with it? Trap it and turn it loose in wild country where there is already a cougar population? It will wander right back out. Also, is this before or after it threatens or worse yet, perhaps kills some one or some child? And I will bet before you can "spot it" and convince the DNR it is even there.. do you want your kid walking around? When it's too late, ask yourself why you even let this situation develop when you had the means to stop it.

Absurd maybe to you. To me it makes sense. Where in WISCONSIN is there no population? Name me an area. Where is there not a population densityof somesorts, anywherein Wisconsin for these big cats? You name any part of our State and I will bet you, someone lives there. There are towns around there. There are tourist that visit that area. And if that cat could or might hurt someone.. you bet I would kill it. Faster then you might believe.

There have been no human killings by cats to the best of my knowledge. And these cats I also suspect have been in WI for years. But I will guarantee you one thing.. I spot one around my house, there will be one less cougar for anyone to worry about. If I want to show the kids a cougar, I'd rather do it from a Zoo instead of on a camping trip or hike.

There is no way you will ever convince me that cougars are needed in this State. And while you might like the idea of a cougar wandering around in the wilds of Wisconsin, let only hope that your idea does not eat someone in the future.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I don't understand why I need to research anything. Give me a straight answer.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

You need to research something and gets the facts and educate yourself, this way you can base your answers on facts, not here say or what you "think" is right!


OK, because I did my research and educated myself enough to know that the wolves are not going to wipe out the entire deer herd! There are MANY factors that are the problem like some I listed above, but, you seem to think aren't a problem! I disagree, nuff said!

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I base my facts on first hand experiences and what others have experienced. Name your sources.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would want cougers and wolves near their families. You know what- the bleeding heart-tree hugging-peta puppies are the ones that want them critters back in our state. Most of them idiots live in the city and want these critters back so they can see them from their cars when they go to the country on their sunday drives. They don't have to put up with the wolves and cougers. I agree with cayugad on this one. Kill em all! Bury the evidence, and get on with your life. I feel there is a big difference though when you put bears in the same class as wolves and cougers. I'd take the odds any day with a black bear. The DNR denied there were cougers here for how many years?
It all comes down to the term of a DNR verification. Until now they always used that term to discount any sightings. This time they had to deal with yote hunters who treed the cat. Now they can't deny it any longer. The big problem with the DNR is they don't tell the trueth and people just don't trust them.

As I have said before, walk softly and carry a big gun.:D:D:D

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Some of you on here are completely ignorant on your facts and assumptions. If we use your theories then we need to kill off just about every animal on the face of this earth.

Someone who thinks cougars should be erradicated needs to do some research before they make an uneducated post. The number of people being killed by their own family pet vs. being killed by a cougar is something to ponder. In that case I better load up my shotgun and go blast my dog since he will be around my kids.

Give me a break people! 99% of all cougars are completely afraid of humans and will run at first sight. There is the 1% and that 1% goes for every animal on this planet.

For all that are using the attacks on children waiting for the school bus at the end of the drive needs to find a better arguement. What's stopping the stray dog from mauling your kid to death?

I just don't get your guy's arguements.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Here is a little info for all of you who claim cougars are a serious threat to human life. Should I run these numbers against the popular family breed of the Pit Bull?

http://www.cougarinfo.org/

22 confirmed human fatalities in two countries in the last 119 years. Truely human killing machines we have here!

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Here, I will go ahead and do it for you. This includes 25 breeds of dogs in just over a 19 year span. Anyone see the difference?


[*]Between 1979 and 1998, severe dog bites resulted in at least 332 confirmed human deaths. Twenty-five breeds of dogs were involved. Seventy percent of dog bite fatality victims were children.[*]Although rottweilers and pit bulls were responsible for 60% of the 1997-1998 dog bite fatalities, these breeds have accounted for far fewer fatalities in past years.8

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

Only 22 kills is good, but did you see the number of attacks? Still a very dangerous animal.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

They are dangerous. I'm not sure anybody here has debated otherwise. I'm just pointing out that they are not anymore dangerous than a dog.

There are many things in this world that can kill you. To eliminate Mt. Loins because they are dangerous is just plain silly.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

We need to face the facts, and one of the facts is that the wildlife officials will not admit or "confirm" that a person was killed by a wild animal unless there is basically an eye witness. Sometimes it almost has to be avideo tape. As I stated earlier,I know of a farmer whohad a healthycalf killed by a mountain lion.The mountain lioneven started to eat the calf, but the wildlife officals denied his claim as theirwas no "proof"thecalf was killed by a mountain lion. Photos of mountian lions have been taken in my area, and the wildlife officals say the pictures are of a big tom cat. The only tom cats I know that are even close to 100 lbs are mountian lions. Maybe it was a big tom cat that killed and started to eat that farmer's calf. One of the facts is that the wildlife officals are not always honest with the public nor with what they report. This places the reliability of their reports in question.

If a person who is attacked by a mountain lionlater diesfrom their injuries, do they classify the deathasa result of a mountian lion attack or as a result of health conditions/complications (heart, stroke, pneumonia, age,etc.)? How many of the people who just disappear and are never found (parks, rural areas,etc) are killedby a wild animal and eaten? When a missing person is found dead: and it is evident that an animal has been eating on the body,how do they classify this death? So lets admit the likelihood that human deaths from mountain lionsand wolvesare greater than those reported.

There are good dog breeders, and their arebad dog breeders. There are good pet owners, and there are bad pet owners. The majority of dog attacks are due to one of the previously mentioned reasons (bad dog breeders and/or bad pet owners).Severaldog attacks are due tochildren not being trained how to treat a dog, or having a dog that does nottolerate children well around children. If an intruder or attacker is attacked or killed by the family dog, how is this categorized in the records? How is a death of person from a trained attack dog for protection/security recorded? What about attacks anddeaths by police dogs? What is the percentage of human deaths by the familydogvs thetotal of the family dogpopulationcompared to human deaths by mountain lions vs the totalmountain lion population? There are millions of dogs and threeto five thousand mountain lions.

A stray dog does not stay around. It is either captured by animal control, taken in by someone or killed. Does animal control come out if someone reports seeing a mountain lion? Not likely unless it is in town and refuses to leave.

Summary - It is likely that deaths bywild animalsare higher than reported.Attacks or deaths by attack/security dogs may be included in the numbers. Attacks or deaths of intruders/attackers by a family dog may be included in the numbers.Human error is partly to blame for dog attacks (you don't have a family pet around a baby or childuntil it is has been made clear to the pet the pecking order and the pet has demonstrated its recognition and willingness to obey the pecking order, teaching children how to treat a dog, etc.). There are dog breeds made aggressive and strong for fighting that should not be a family pet in most instances.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

False! Several reports of confirmed kills since 1890 were people that were by themselves when killed and were later confirmed through autopsies.

Did your farmer friend get pictures of the cougar eating his calf?? I've seen countless calfs killed by coyotes.

From what I read it was still a confirmed Mt. Loin kill. Out of all 22 confirmed human kills in two countries in 119 years there was only 2 instances of this.

Hard to explain or define the unknown. Who's to say the just didn't fall of a steep cliff.

This is why we have autopsies. Not hard to tell if it was post-mortum.

I will venture to say they would be less than 1% higher. Probably higher with bears than any other animal.

The classic dog attack arguement!!!! There is some truth to this, but what about ole' Goldy the Golden Retriever who had never even barked at someone before.

Still a confirmed human kill.

Police dogs and security dogs are considered law enforcement officers not dogs. It is considered a kill by law enforcement.

I knew you would ask. This would be hard to come up with because you would have to know how many humans each dog has had contact with vs. how many humans each Mt. Lion has had contact with. The numbers I gave of dog kills was something like 335 kills in the years on 1979-1998. Those are some incredibly high numbers. 22 confirmed kills by Cougars in the U.S. and all of Canada in 119 years is extrememly low. Black Bears have this number beat by over 200% and I've not heard one person say kill off the bears.

Neither does a cougar. They travel a lot more than a stray dog.

Why would they? If someone reports seeing a cougar in the country animal control should not get involved. Guess what??? That's where they are supposed to be. We just had one walking the streets of Chicago for a month and he didn't hurt a thing. He was killed because of the scare factor.

My summary: People don't like cougars cause they have been taught that they are viscous animals. Far from the case. It's the same reason people kill every snake they walk up on. It's because they've been taught to fear snakes by generations of uneducated people. There are many things in this world that can kill you. Snakes, spiders, bears, wolves, cougar, lightning, humans, vehicles........

People need to quit killing because of being scared. Start educating yourself and children about these animals. When you hike out in the middle of a National Forest you need to know that there is a risk of being killed by a cougar, wolf, bear, rutting elk, falling off a cliff, etc. There is a lot more out there to fear than a cougar.

RE: WIDNR on the trail of Mt Lion, real deal!
 

The farmer saw the mountain lion with his own two eyes. Like I said it must have been a big tom cat that killed and started to eat his calf. That is what they call the mountain lion in pictures that people have taken. Believe me it is not a tom cat.

Years back a local farmer askeda wildlife offical if they were bringing back the wolf. Whenhe asked whythe farmerreplied he saw one. They toldthe farmerhe needed to have his eyes checked. Then they said it was a big coyote. The more they talked, the moresarcastic thewildlife officals became to the farmer. They did not like it when the farmer said if it was just a big coyote it can be shot. Not long after that they admitted there were wolves in the area. There are some good wildlife officials, but there is a good portion that are not honest and treat the locals like they are idiots. As I stated earlier, this puts all their reports in question. I also questionif deathsin recent years from wild animals have not been recorded improperly or not recorded at all. I don't put it past some (not all as some are honest and very good)of the officals to slant the numbers in their favor (having a human death from a wild animal does not look good on their record - even worse for multiple deaths). I would not doubt that deaths from mountain lions is not at least5 times the level recorded if not more. How many REPORTED deaths/attacks in the last 5 to 7 years? The mountain lion has been known to kill animals 10 to 15 timesits body weight.

Regarding falling off a cliff, did they fall off a cliff due to an attack or being chased/hunted by a wild animal? Hard to do an autopsy with a "conclusive" findingwhen the evidence that is needed is gone (eaten) or too badly decomposed.

What you call the "classic dog argument" is fact. You don't wake up a dog by touching it, you don't start to touch a dog while it is eating, you don't make sudden moves around a dog that does not know you well, you don't tease the dog,you don't make eye contact with a dog that does not know you well, you don't have young children around pets unless they are supervised - teaching how to correctly touch, handle and communicate withthe animal. If you want a sure way to get bitten by a dog, make a quick/aggresive move arounda dog that is protective/territorial anddoes not know you well. Dogs with females and/or children are protective. Farm dogs are very protective and territorial.

A stray dog does not stay a stray dog for long. It is taken in by animal control, taken in by someone else or killed. A mountain lion stays a mountain lion.

Regarding the mountain lion is Chicago. Wildlife officials admit that whenamountain lion has no fear of humans, it will attack. If it had not been killed, it would have only been a matter of time before it attacked or killedsomeone. Even the wildlife officials where I am from have stated it is only a matter of time before one attacks a person. Some of the locals have had close calls.

Most black bear attacks are from two main causes. They have fed the bear, or the bear felt they were a threat to its cubs.

If you do a statistical analysis of deaths and attacks from dogs vs. deaths and attacks from mountain lions, I would not doubt that the mountain lions would show to be more aggressive and dangerous. If peoplerespected dogs like theyrespect mountain lions, the attacks/deaths from dogs would be much lower.

Yes, there is a risk of being attacked by a wild animal while being outdoors. This is why ALL areas and states should have concealed carry. Cougars are vicious animals. It is in their nature to kill, and they do it often to survive.