Centauri

I base my facts on first hand experiences and what others have experienced. Name your sources.

mr.mc54

I can't believe anyone in their right mind would want cougers and wolves near their families. You know what- the bleeding heart-tree hugging-peta puppies are the ones that want them critters back in our state. Most of them idiots live in the city and want these critters back so they can see them from their cars when they go to the country on their sunday drives. They don't have to put up with the wolves and cougers. I agree with cayugad on this one. Kill em all! Bury the evidence, and get on with your life. I feel there is a big difference though when you put bears in the same class as wolves and cougers. I'd take the odds any day with a black bear. The DNR denied there were cougers here for how many years?
It all comes down to the term of a DNR verification. Until now they always used that term to discount any sightings. This time they had to deal with yote hunters who treed the cat. Now they can't deny it any longer. The big problem with the DNR is they don't tell the trueth and people just don't trust them.

As I have said before, walk softly and carry a big gun.

2 Lunger

Some of you on here are completely ignorant on your facts and assumptions. If we use your theories then we need to kill off just about every animal on the face of this earth.

Someone who thinks cougars should be erradicated needs to do some research before they make an uneducated post. The number of people being killed by their own family pet vs. being killed by a cougar is something to ponder. In that case I better load up my shotgun and go blast my dog since he will be around my kids.

Give me a break people! 99% of all cougars are completely afraid of humans and will run at first sight. There is the 1% and that 1% goes for every animal on this planet.

For all that are using the attacks on children waiting for the school bus at the end of the drive needs to find a better arguement. What's stopping the stray dog from mauling your kid to death?

I just don't get your guy's arguements.

2 Lunger

Here is a little info for all of you who claim cougars are a serious threat to human life. Should I run these numbers against the popular family breed of the Pit Bull?

http://www.cougarinfo.org/

22 confirmed human fatalities in two countries in the last 119 years. Truely human killing machines we have here!

2 Lunger

Here, I will go ahead and do it for you. This includes 25 breeds of dogs in just over a 19 year span. Anyone see the difference?


[*]Between 1979 and 1998, severe dog bites resulted in at least 332 confirmed human deaths. Twenty-five breeds of dogs were involved. Seventy percent of dog bite fatality victims were children.[*]Although rottweilers and pit bulls were responsible for 60% of the 1997-1998 dog bite fatalities, these breeds have accounted for far fewer fatalities in past years.8

Centauri

Only 22 kills is good, but did you see the number of attacks? Still a very dangerous animal.

2 Lunger

They are dangerous. I'm not sure anybody here has debated otherwise. I'm just pointing out that they are not anymore dangerous than a dog.

There are many things in this world that can kill you. To eliminate Mt. Loins because they are dangerous is just plain silly.

country1

We need to face the facts, and one of the facts is that the wildlife officials will not admit or "confirm" that a person was killed by a wild animal unless there is basically an eye witness. Sometimes it almost has to be avideo tape. As I stated earlier,I know of a farmer whohad a healthycalf killed by a mountain lion.The mountain lioneven started to eat the calf, but the wildlife officals denied his claim as theirwas no "proof"thecalf was killed by a mountain lion. Photos of mountian lions have been taken in my area, and the wildlife officals say the pictures are of a big tom cat. The only tom cats I know that are even close to 100 lbs are mountian lions. Maybe it was a big tom cat that killed and started to eat that farmer's calf. One of the facts is that the wildlife officals are not always honest with the public nor with what they report. This places the reliability of their reports in question.

If a person who is attacked by a mountain lionlater diesfrom their injuries, do they classify the deathasa result of a mountian lion attack or as a result of health conditions/complications (heart, stroke, pneumonia, age,etc.)? How many of the people who just disappear and are never found (parks, rural areas,etc) are killedby a wild animal and eaten? When a missing person is found dead: and it is evident that an animal has been eating on the body,how do they classify this death? So lets admit the likelihood that human deaths from mountain lionsand wolvesare greater than those reported.

There are good dog breeders, and their arebad dog breeders. There are good pet owners, and there are bad pet owners. The majority of dog attacks are due to one of the previously mentioned reasons (bad dog breeders and/or bad pet owners).Severaldog attacks are due tochildren not being trained how to treat a dog, or having a dog that does nottolerate children well around children. If an intruder or attacker is attacked or killed by the family dog, how is this categorized in the records? How is a death of person from a trained attack dog for protection/security recorded? What about attacks anddeaths by police dogs? What is the percentage of human deaths by the familydogvs thetotal of the family dogpopulationcompared to human deaths by mountain lions vs the totalmountain lion population? There are millions of dogs and threeto five thousand mountain lions.

A stray dog does not stay around. It is either captured by animal control, taken in by someone or killed. Does animal control come out if someone reports seeing a mountain lion? Not likely unless it is in town and refuses to leave.

Summary - It is likely that deaths bywild animalsare higher than reported.Attacks or deaths by attack/security dogs may be included in the numbers. Attacks or deaths of intruders/attackers by a family dog may be included in the numbers.Human error is partly to blame for dog attacks (you don't have a family pet around a baby or childuntil it is has been made clear to the pet the pecking order and the pet has demonstrated its recognition and willingness to obey the pecking order, teaching children how to treat a dog, etc.). There are dog breeds made aggressive and strong for fighting that should not be a family pet in most instances.

2 Lunger

False! Several reports of confirmed kills since 1890 were people that were by themselves when killed and were later confirmed through autopsies.

Did your farmer friend get pictures of the cougar eating his calf?? I've seen countless calfs killed by coyotes.

From what I read it was still a confirmed Mt. Loin kill. Out of all 22 confirmed human kills in two countries in 119 years there was only 2 instances of this.

Hard to explain or define the unknown. Who's to say the just didn't fall of a steep cliff.

This is why we have autopsies. Not hard to tell if it was post-mortum.

I will venture to say they would be less than 1% higher. Probably higher with bears than any other animal.

The classic dog attack arguement!!!! There is some truth to this, but what about ole' Goldy the Golden Retriever who had never even barked at someone before.

Still a confirmed human kill.

Police dogs and security dogs are considered law enforcement officers not dogs. It is considered a kill by law enforcement.

I knew you would ask. This would be hard to come up with because you would have to know how many humans each dog has had contact with vs. how many humans each Mt. Lion has had contact with. The numbers I gave of dog kills was something like 335 kills in the years on 1979-1998. Those are some incredibly high numbers. 22 confirmed kills by Cougars in the U.S. and all of Canada in 119 years is extrememly low. Black Bears have this number beat by over 200% and I've not heard one person say kill off the bears.

Neither does a cougar. They travel a lot more than a stray dog.

Why would they? If someone reports seeing a cougar in the country animal control should not get involved. Guess what??? That's where they are supposed to be. We just had one walking the streets of Chicago for a month and he didn't hurt a thing. He was killed because of the scare factor.

My summary: People don't like cougars cause they have been taught that they are viscous animals. Far from the case. It's the same reason people kill every snake they walk up on. It's because they've been taught to fear snakes by generations of uneducated people. There are many things in this world that can kill you. Snakes, spiders, bears, wolves, cougar, lightning, humans, vehicles........

People need to quit killing because of being scared. Start educating yourself and children about these animals. When you hike out in the middle of a National Forest you need to know that there is a risk of being killed by a cougar, wolf, bear, rutting elk, falling off a cliff, etc. There is a lot more out there to fear than a cougar.

country1

The farmer saw the mountain lion with his own two eyes. Like I said it must have been a big tom cat that killed and started to eat his calf. That is what they call the mountain lion in pictures that people have taken. Believe me it is not a tom cat.

Years back a local farmer askeda wildlife offical if they were bringing back the wolf. Whenhe asked whythe farmerreplied he saw one. They toldthe farmerhe needed to have his eyes checked. Then they said it was a big coyote. The more they talked, the moresarcastic thewildlife officals became to the farmer. They did not like it when the farmer said if it was just a big coyote it can be shot. Not long after that they admitted there were wolves in the area. There are some good wildlife officials, but there is a good portion that are not honest and treat the locals like they are idiots. As I stated earlier, this puts all their reports in question. I also questionif deathsin recent years from wild animals have not been recorded improperly or not recorded at all. I don't put it past some (not all as some are honest and very good)of the officals to slant the numbers in their favor (having a human death from a wild animal does not look good on their record - even worse for multiple deaths). I would not doubt that deaths from mountain lions is not at least5 times the level recorded if not more. How many REPORTED deaths/attacks in the last 5 to 7 years? The mountain lion has been known to kill animals 10 to 15 timesits body weight.

Regarding falling off a cliff, did they fall off a cliff due to an attack or being chased/hunted by a wild animal? Hard to do an autopsy with a "conclusive" findingwhen the evidence that is needed is gone (eaten) or too badly decomposed.

What you call the "classic dog argument" is fact. You don't wake up a dog by touching it, you don't start to touch a dog while it is eating, you don't make sudden moves around a dog that does not know you well, you don't tease the dog,you don't make eye contact with a dog that does not know you well, you don't have young children around pets unless they are supervised - teaching how to correctly touch, handle and communicate withthe animal. If you want a sure way to get bitten by a dog, make a quick/aggresive move arounda dog that is protective/territorial anddoes not know you well. Dogs with females and/or children are protective. Farm dogs are very protective and territorial.

A stray dog does not stay a stray dog for long. It is taken in by animal control, taken in by someone else or killed. A mountain lion stays a mountain lion.

Regarding the mountain lion is Chicago. Wildlife officials admit that whenamountain lion has no fear of humans, it will attack. If it had not been killed, it would have only been a matter of time before it attacked or killedsomeone. Even the wildlife officials where I am from have stated it is only a matter of time before one attacks a person. Some of the locals have had close calls.

Most black bear attacks are from two main causes. They have fed the bear, or the bear felt they were a threat to its cubs.

If you do a statistical analysis of deaths and attacks from dogs vs. deaths and attacks from mountain lions, I would not doubt that the mountain lions would show to be more aggressive and dangerous. If peoplerespected dogs like theyrespect mountain lions, the attacks/deaths from dogs would be much lower.

Yes, there is a risk of being attacked by a wild animal while being outdoors. This is why ALL areas and states should have concealed carry. Cougars are vicious animals. It is in their nature to kill, and they do it often to survive.