LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Have you noticed how much land is being closed to the average hunter by those wanting to make a living off our natural resources? I understand business is just that, the almighty dollar speaks loud but when is enough going to be enough?
Did you know that they tried to get a bill passed at the capitol last year making several thousand tags for deer and turkey available for non-residents, free to out fitters and bed and breakfast locations just so they could get more business. Now will they be wanting trophys or will they be looking out for our hurds interest and trying to harvest reasonably. If you just paid for a hunt I' ll bet you won' t take a lesser deer or let a monster walk, ....

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

You have to be very careful when defining ' our natural resources' .... If I own 640 acres of land, that is NOT your natural resources, they are MINE. You using them because they are ' ours' is like me using your garage to store my boat during the winter JUST because...

I haven' t heard about free tags for outfitters.... I think no state could be SO stupid to lose the revenue from the tags themselves.

I think you need to re-think your post and clarify it because it makes absolutely no sense.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

kc-bowhunter...No sir I would not expect to just enter your property and hunt, that would be trespassing. Also you would own the land not the wild life that comes and goes. That sir is your states nat. resource, unless of course you are raiseing animals and are attempting to keep them fenced. The bill in question was tabled in Iowa due to lack of support. The wording was being argued because it was to GIVE these extra tags to businesses.
I respect the landowners rights to use their land as they want even if it is to lease to an outfitter.
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RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

1st shot

Agree with you. I' ve quit worrying about anti-hunters cause we' re doing a better job of destoying hunting than they are.

We' ve met the enemy and he is us...........

You' re correct, my property belongs to me but the resource does not. You make perfect sense.

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RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

In the state of Missouri, the Missouri Conservation Commission and all of its offices reserves the right of " eminent domain" , which means, they can and will regulate or aquire any property, public or private, for how they see fit, under the law of the highway commision.

In other words, if you own 640 acres of property in Missouri, and the MDC decides they need that property for a wildlife refuge, public hunting or fishing property, ect., they pay you fair market price and aquire the property, whether you like it or not. Just the same as many states have new highways going thru private property and the land owners have no choice but to let them.

Now, the chances are very remote that they will do this, but they can if they see fit. I have never personally ever heard of anything that drastic, and I agree with most of the things the MDC does for this state. That is why they are considered a leader in conservation efforts for the U.S., with a good many more states following their lead. The only thing remotely close to hearing about this is a piece of property that was being bid on next to a wildlife refuge (across a 2 lane blacktop) and several people were planning on bidding on said property in an auction. The MDC came in and bought the property.

Keep you head up, there is more property to be found elsewhere. I thought the same thing about 10 years ago when I lost the rights to a goldmine of a property by way of the death of the owner, and the insuing legal battle to sell the place by his surviving niece and nephew. Then I kept banging on doors, inching my way in by help around a place, or starting out slow by asking permission to hunt in the spring for turkeys with a bow. That is my favorite way of getting a property. It seems that most owners are not so shy of the bow in the spring and tend to think it is more harmless and safe than asking to hunt with a rifle or gun. I did this for 2 or 3 years, then gradually worked my way , little by little, into rifle hunting once the owner seen that I was responsible hunter. Helping out free of charge around the farm is another ticket of success, whether it be clearing brush, mending fence, feeding livestock, ect. I now have about 1800 acres to myself and no one else, to hunt on in several different places by doing this very thing. And the only cost it is to me is the processing of a deer to give some meat to the land owners, and a little elbow grease.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Richie

When the voters passed the 1/8 cent sales tax it states that NO land can be purchased except under normal, public transaction and at fair, current market price.

They cannot take land as you stated using sales tax money to pay for it. That' s why you don' t see it being done. Thay also cannot purchase land that isn;' t for sale by the landowner...

I know this cause they' ve tried to purchase serveral tracts of land here, including mine, unsuccessfully.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

I am sorry , Woodbow. But just because they didn' t purchase the property doesn' t mean they cannot.

Go to page 2 in the Wildlife Code of Missouri, Rules of the Commission;

Section 41. Aquisition of property--eminent domain.

The commission may aquire by purchase, gift, eminent domain, or otherwise, all property necessary, useful or convenient for its purposes, and shall exercise the right of eminent domain as provided by law for the highway commission.

Now, that being stated, I did read the sales tax section (section 43a) and understand that this is where they get said monies for aquisition of properties. But don' t be confused about the power they have. They choose not to use it in most cases, but they still have it if they see fit, as I stated earlier.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Just as a side note......

I called a buddy of mine who works for the M.D.C. and asked him the question about the power of obtaining land thru eminent domain. His reply was, that the state reserves the right to obtain property thru eminent domains provided by law for the highway commission, but the majority of the time does not, and tries to purchase the land instead of forcing its hand, due to legal cost of a courtroom battle against the value of the property needed to be obtained.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Richie3, am I reading this correctly? I know that many, if not all states have the right of eminant domain for transportation purposes, but for hunting and fishing land?

Is that really true in Missouri?

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Yes Big, it is true. What I quoted above from the code book is word for word. They may not use it for just public hunting or fishing. They can use it for special forestry, wildlife refuge, ect., to what ever they see fit to do.


But, like I said, just because they have the power doesn' t mean they will use it. I am sure there are funds needed to be spent each year on property, so they can justify the budget expense the following year. The code book can probably be sent by reply free of charge. It is on page 2 in the code book, section 41.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Thank`s for the reply.

That would make me kinda nervous if I owned land in Missouri.:(

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

All in all, I feel (just my opinion) that wildlife is just that! Landowners are just that as well! I am a sportsman that respects ALL of the written and unwritten laws and regulations. To hear of someone who thinks they own the wildlife on thier land reminds me of a time I asked permission to hunt some private land. The landowner told me she did not permit hunting because " the animals are my pets!" This is OK with me if she feeds, grooms, provides Vetranary care and shelters the animals. I think that might be difficult to accomplish but I could be wrong. That is like saying that a landowner owns all of the fish that swim into and or through his/her property.
I also agree that a sporsts" person" ' s worst enemy is ourselves. We allow uneducated or slightly educated people to enjoy our out of doors. This is good and bad for us. Every man woman and child should enjoy our out of doors, but it is the true sporstperson' s responsibility to help educate all in ethics. Would you take a shot at an animal if it was not safe? I hope not. It is not worth a person' s life to harvest game. As well I feel it is not ethical to release a fish that has been fatally hooked.
It our resonsibility to be resonsible for our future as well as landowners, nonhunters, nonfisherpersons, those who agree with us and those whom do not.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Those are good points ODH, but believe it or not, my best friend lost family friends over hunting " owned" or " unowned" game on their own property. They had family friends that were great friends, but the only nitch was that these friends insisted on tresspassing on everybody. Their reasoning was just that, that the game and fish on any given property was not the property of the landowner, an arguement started one day, and the friendship was no more. All people do need to enjoy the outdoors, wth the experienced paving the way to educate the others.

Bigs,

I say they have the power, but I cannot remember hearing anything about them forcing their hand like this. It is no worry owning land in Missouri. The MDC is a great conservation group. I wouldn' t be suprised if most people from other states would look thru their own rule books on this subject, and find out the same thing. But I also bet it hardly ever happens.

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Richie,

Please do not get me wrong, I do not condone nor encourage trespassing. I only meant to say that the wildlife belongs to all of us both land owners and non landowners.

A landowner has complete say as to who hunts and who does not, even if that means nobody hunts. A landowner buys land to do as they wish with it, and that is thier right. If the people whom trespass would ask permission instead of inviting themselves, it may be easier for other sportsmen and women to get previously unobtainable hunting and fishing permission. I think permission means the landowner ALLOWS you on. It is insane to invite yourself or assume you are alowed to tread as you wish.

Someday I wish to own a couple of hundred acres of my own and I would be very selective as to who I let in. I understand the landowners who are fed up with poachers, trespassers, litterbugs etc.

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

I understand, and did not mean to imply that you are for tresspassing ODH, and I also have no doubt that you are a responsible hunter and sportsperson......The last thing I ever want to do is be misunderstood in thinking that I would call someone else a tresspasser or unsportsmanlike without proof. My appologies if that is the way I came across.......

RE: LOST HUNTING GROUNDS
 

Hey, no appologies needed. I just wanted to make sure my point went across the right way. We all have to work harder because of unethical hunter and fisherpersons.