RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

While ol mich ain worth a hoot. He is still better that the other one that ran. You know its funny but until obannon died he was not even going to run for lt gov again. But then again I did not vote for obannon or him. I did vote for mich but as the lesser of two evils. Sometimes your damned if you do and damned if you dont.

As for Clinton and Schumer, if its up to them we wont be hunting with anything but rocks.

I will admit I have the tendancy to say what I think. I do try to be civil most of the time though. Well at least until someone takes a cheap shot at me. But what I do know about bellar and rodneybruceis not good. Bellar went to jail and got shut down. Fair enough. Rodney Bruce asked for a permit to run a deer farm, not a high fenced hunting area. Deer farms are not what is not what they are trying to do away with. Small pen killing fields is.

When I hunt I go up 15 feet, with a bow there are times that it is possable to get a 40 or 50 yard shot. With my Knight 200 is not impossable. If your set up in the middle of a 3 acre pen it is possable to almost hit any spot in it if the pen is set up so that it is almost eqadistant on all sides. An acre is what 100 x 100 yds. So noI am not changing my mind.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

hillbillyhunter1, both of those quotes are completely accurate.

There are many different objectives when having a high fence operation, hunting is not the only reason to have captive animals.

I never said I am not involved with a high fence operation, I did say that I was not involved with a high fenced HUNTING operation.

I have been to high fence hunting operations to look at animals, check out their operation, etc.

So, I stick with my quoted statements above........I have no ties whatever to a high fence hunting operation, and I DO know more than a little bit about high fence operations, both hunting, and for other purposes.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

I figured there must be an agenda somewhere

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

No agenda in any way, shape, or form my friend. I live in a state that does NOT allow baiting, requires a license to hunt, no sunday hunting, just to name a few laws.

However, when it comes to high fence preserves, that same state realizes that the animals are privately owned, just like cattle, and if a high fence operator wishes, he may bait them, hunt them on sunday, and he does NOT need a license to do so.

Again, I have never hunted in a high fence, and I have no ties to a high fence hunting operation. I realize that high fences do not negatively impact me, or hunting as a whole, so I do not attempt to stop a man from exercising his private property ownership rights.

It really should not be that hard to follow. Now you may be just stiring the pot for a little fun, and that is fine, but Indianahick has made it obvious that he has no interest in admitting there is life outside of Indiana. It is painfully obvious that there should be no hunting that is not commonly accepted in rural Indiana. I notice that many pointed questions are completely ignored because any rational answer would clearly contradict his stance on this debate.

Indianahick has stated that he might be OK with a high fence hunt if the fence encompassed 15,000-20,000 acres minimum. That, by the way, is 23.43 to 31.25 SQUARE MILES!

If it does not nicely fit into Indianahicks personal ideals, then it must go.

What a sad way to go through life. I shoot 3-d`s, well right now I am recovering from surgery so I just walk and keep score, with guys well senior to Indianahick, and there ain`t a one of them that is that hardheaded, and narrowminded.

61 is not too old to admit you are mistaken on an issue.

I will ask Indianahick one more time, but I doubt he will offer a direct answer to the question........

Why should it be OK to raise privately owned cattle, hogs,sheep, or chickens and kill them when you want to, but it is not OK when we are talking about deer or elk?

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

BTW, for all the folks that are AGAINST raising captive whitetails or elk........you do have one semi legitimate concern with these types of operations.

Unfortunately, nota single one of you has even mentioned it in passing. The ONLY points any of you have brought up are simply emotion filled, fact lacking responses.;)

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

One thing BC,

I do not have a problem with high fenced "canned" hunting from a legal perspective if EVERY SINGLE "HUNTABLE" (KILLABLE)ANIMAL THAT IS BEHIND THE FENCE HAS BEEN PURCHASED BY THE OWNER/OPERATOR, although I would participate in any action to detrimentally affect them economically (thru passing alongbad PR or whatever) when it comes to portraying themselves as hunting.

The owners of these places should NOT be allowed to fence in indigenous wild animals for hunting or even breeding (does) or even aesthetic purposes and, IN FACT, should have to have every single wild game-animal (I said game animal)trapped and removed or PURCHASED from the state at the time the fence is erected. Those animals do not belong to them--they belong to the public and should not be entrapped.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

hillbillyhunter1, what you described in your last post is almost EXACTLY how the law reads in PA for high fence operations.

And I agree with you on most everything you posted in your last post.

What I do disagree with from your last post is really minor..........I can assure you that a bowhunt in a 200 acre pen for deer that have NOT been bottle fed, and are not being pushed by another human, is as challenging as it gets.

I have tried filming and taking still photos of deer in 100 acre pens, and they know the minute you step in that pen. They want nothing to do with you. They actually will flee faster than wild deer.

My point is......as long as a high fence owner has at least 200 acres with no interior fences to minimize the deer movement, and that high fence operator lets every prospective client know up front that it is a high fence hunt.......I have no problem with man calling it hunting.

Now, for arguements sake......let us say that a hunting video producer like Primos, Drury brothers, Realtree, Jimmy Houston;), etc. decide to film inside a high fence........I don`t care if it is a 10,000 acre high fence, they should immediately let anybody that might be buying, or viewing on TV, that the hunt was indeed filmed in a high fence enclosure.

Honesty I can live with.......deception I won`t go for.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

I don't know. I have done the high fence pig hunt before. And I have to say I was thoughly, totally ashamed of myself. I never felt so bad for a kill in my life. But, if it doesn't bother other people, why should I force my experience on them.

For me, I feel the best when I scout, and watch, and then get up on opening day of bow, and stick me that animal that was making those rubs. Even if its a 4 point. Thats my high.

Some guys, its about partying with thier friends, and stumbling in the woods and falling asleep from a hangover on opening day of rifle. Thats thier high. I sure don't like it.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

I am sorry for jumping in your guys arguement who won't participate in canned hunts but knows that freedom gives people the right to do them. But from an outsider looking in, I don't understand how it hurts you that someone out there is not giving the same amount of effort in hunting as you?

We all got to find our own highs in hunting. For me, this year, its taking up a longbow and only hunting with a sidelock. For my brother, he thinks thats the silliest thing he ever heard.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

bigcountry, I have never done the pig hunt like you described, but I do know many who have. They all pretty much came away with the same thoughts as you on the hunt.

It is not something I am interested in, but like you say, who am I to judge. I have a buddy that I watched pass up a 150" free roaming Illinois whitetail, because he has no problem waiting for an older, bigger one. Amazingly, he gets a kick out of doing one of those hog hunts you described every year? Go figure.

BTW, many high fence hunting operations are nothing like a hog shooting pen that you went to.

Good luck this coming season.............

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

People you just aren't thinking right. Let them have their high fences. Then someone should slip in a cut a great big ole hole in that there fence. Then all of the other sportsmen can have legitimate shot at a 160-180 class deer without having to pay $25,000.00. Hunters are happy and business owners have a 25,000 dollar tax deduction! :D:DLOL

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Somebody had that exact idea here in PA about 5 years ago. The trial was three years ago.

The guy with your idea is STILL in prison, but you take your own chances.:D

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Serious-Cutting fences is against the law. Do NOT let me see you do it! I will try to see that you go strait to jail.

Big- 1) are there two of you with that name?
2) Evidently you have missed where I said that if it was leagle in several places. But then again hunting over feeders and bait I do not condone. If you want to then that is fine with me. I do not have to hunt with you. And if you do I wont.
3) We are not talking about 100 to 200 acre pens here. We are talking one hell of a lot smaller 3-5. As I said I beleive thatI drove past the wilderness going to Detroit from Indiana, I do not know how large it is in miles but it is one hell of a lot more than 117 total acres. This is an discussion of where a and b are not close to equal.

In my world as small and narrow minded as it is (you are pushing the envelope there by the way) Drunks or drinking is not allowed where I hunt. Guns and Booze do not mix. I ran into an old high school friend one time while hunting, first he offered me a drink from his bottle, I declined. Second he asked if I would hunt with him as he was hunting alone. I declined there also. Even though I was hunting alone due to work schedules and shift differences.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Oh yeah Big I am not trying to nor do I want to foist my ideas as to hunting on your state or the way that you hunt. And I take that personal.
The chances are that somewhere else down the line I would more than likely have been on your side. Now even if it is not how I feel I will go out of my way to be on the other side.

Enjoy the rest of your life.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

No thanks man, last thing we want to do is let one of them animals out and start spreading CWD.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

First off I was joking about cutting a fence. Second off it would not include any jail time for vanadlism. Heck today there are drunk drivers caught for the third time not doing any time, assaults charges that get 180 days and 180 days suspended sentences, possession of drugs gets one about a 300 dollar fine and 2 days in jail. So I believe cutting farmer Brown's (Buellar)fence would get you about as much time as one would get for toilet papering your neighbors house.

Canned killing is a disgrace. I could possibly see a slight difference if one had about 3,000 acres fenced off somewhere in Texas ( Even tough they would not get a dime of my money) but to have 30 five acre pens scattered across 150 acres is WRONG anyway you cut it. Fine if it is legal today and one wishes to participate in pet killing for a fee. But when the laws are passed then those same people need to accept that it is illegal and stop or face the consequences.

And you are most correct BigBuck00 I would not want ones pets to contaminate the real hunting woods.IMO.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Ok let me attempt to address a few points even if I get the authors wrong. To the man who said his Indiana hunting is just fine...thats my point! Its being threatened along with this enclosure stuff, as you all fight amongst yourselves! You THINK you are getting rid of evil high fenced hunts, but other hunting was also earmarked in some of those conditions...why do you think we all fought it? Yes, WE, not just Indiana sportsmen. And NO, NO, NO, deerfarmers in Indiana and elsewhere did NOT support Bellar. They only supported deerfarming and the ability to hunt behind fence.

Another point, you guys keep talking about 3 to 5 acre hunts. Not so. Most states have very strict laws concerning minimum size requirements, which include but not limited to, herd density, topography, and weapons used. Also, drop the drugged deer bs. There is stress factors when chemically imobilizing deer, called capture myopathy. Stumbling drugged deer will often drop dead, so this is NOT how most operations handle animals prior to a hunter arriving.

Oh yeah, about fencing in your states deer. Nope, we dont want them. We are buying very strong stock and operate strict genetic programs. Those deer are owned by us. Theres some great genetics in the wilds of Indiana, but a good genetic program includes trace back history, something we wouldnt have in the wild.

The CWD cheapshot is very typical of those with no background in this stuff. So far most cases of CWD in captive herds has been traced back to a deer brought from the western states where CWD is already known in the wild. These animals, brought by hunters, has been linked to many contaminations. Check NY state as a good example. Wisconsin used to bring mule deer in from Colorado for the university there to study wasting diseases in deer, for cripes sake. The reason why youll always see CWD outbreaks first detected in captive herds is simple...we test EVERY animal, and thats a post mortem test, by the way. 100% testing, as opposed to most states only spot testing, if at all. Trace back history helps us in captive herds if CWD were detected as well, again, something you couldnt do with wild herds, thus the large controlled kills there.

Like I said guys, theres the limited info you as laymen know, and the rest of it that we farmers know. I could walk some of you through beautiful large tracts that are fenced, youd have a hard time seeing any deer in them. THATS the norm. Youll only see the exception when you look to get rid of us.

I dont care if theres guys like you all who feel you hate enclosure hunts, hell, I put up with hearing the same thing about compound bows, releases, lease hunting, you name it, in the past. But at least if you wanna hate it, have the correct facts.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Bill thanks for the interesting facts. Especially about Deer farmers from other states not supporting Bellars and Bruce. Altho Bellars was running 3 acre pens and Bruces are proported to be. The lack of laws pertaining to these operations and how they are being ran is what is causing the upheavel.
And from what I deduce from your previous and this post is that you and all of the rest actually find these 3 acre pens to be unethical and a bad name for hunting. You have mentioned 100 to 200 acre enclosures, whice evidently mean a farm of well over 1000 acres to be worth while and profitable. Bellars was 1,200 acrs, Bruce is 117, the rest are keeping theirs sizes hidden (at least to the public), feelings are that they are also within the 1,000 and less size and penned as Bellars as he was their lead operator.At present these operations are a blight on hunting. As for the drugging reference, etc I believe that you can veiw the houstan hunt off of a thread on Keith Warrens forums and see for yourself how that penned kill zone was handeled.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Bill, just actually paid attention to where in NY you are located. Bet I have been there. My Daughter and Son in Law used to live in Holley.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Why? Are you saying Bellar never drugged deer? Better get your "facts" together if you think not. It's all on record. I hope you dont want to dispute this.

You say NOBODY supported Bellar?????????? Again, where do you get these "facts"? Preserve owners in this state called Bellar the "messiah" who would help make canned hunting legit. Other people in other states had his back as well. Then, after he is arrested for breaking 30+ game laws, they still supported him!!!! You want to dispute this with me too?? Most of these people think Bellar did nothing wrong and the state of Indiana is to blame. You say people didnt support Bellar, lol. I'll tell ya what Bill, i will ask again if you want to dispute this with me. Im not going to embarass you on here unless you want to accuse me of being a liar?? So tell me, did people support Bellar or not?? Let me know, i've got the link waiting!

For a man that lives in New York you sure claim to know an awful lot about an Indiana hunting preserve that was operated less then 20 minutes from my house.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

If this guy Bellar broke the law throw the book at him. If he did something that was an outrage write a law very narrow in scope that adresses those particular issues.
Laws passed in haste are bad laws. I think many don't look at the big picture. Bird hunting preserves are "canned " hunts too.The pheasant stocking program could be interpeted as "canned" also by anti's and dragged into a court. Don't think it wouldn't happen once the openning presents itself.
The vast majority won't and will never hunt places like you describe this guy Bellar runs. But be careful what you wish for.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

bigbuck00, you are purposely twisting facts to make an emotion filled point.

You did NOT see any drugged deer in the Jimmy Houston video clip.

You did see in a seperate clip where they were propping up a deer that was sick, so that another individual could shoot it on tape. I doubt that ANYBODY agrees with attempting to deceive in such fashion. We have no way to prove one way or another whether that deer was drugged, or sick.

As Bill Yox pointed out already, and I can back him up on this......tranquilizing whitetailed deer is an extremely risky proposition, no matter how much experience you have at it, you will lose an animal more often than you want to.

Some of these high and mighty personal ethics posts are funny. It is a long way to fall from that big white charger you are riding.;)

BTW, serioushunter1, I may have been a little misleading, and not intentionally, but the cae in PA where the guy cut a high fence, he stole a deer while he was at it.

Even if he did not steal a deer, the vandalism would just be the criminal charge. If you let my 195" typical buck out of the pen, I will see you in civil court, and I will win.:D

Looks like I have to go back in the hospital due to some post surgery complications, so you guys fight nice until I return......:D

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Actually there is several bigcountry's in different forms. I am the real mccoy original:Dand the others just want to be me. No I didn't play basketball.

My question for some is why do you care if a deer was drugged. Why do you care if a person wants to be a slob? Why would you worry about what another is doing? If its seriously causing harm to the image of the sport thats one thing, but the only ones causeing the harm in that case was actual hunters on a high horse.

Everybody's got to find thier own thing. And quit worrying about what others are shooting onweather its too much gun or not enough, and worrying about thier methods, and everything else.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

What fact did i get wrong BigCountry? Where in any of these posts did i mention anythign about Jimmy Houston??? Whether or not Jimmy Houston shot a drugged deer i do not know, but i do know that Bellar and his employees did drug deer. It's on record. Again, did these investigators and Bellars former employees lie??? Bellar pleaded guilty to it for crying out loud and yet im twisting the facts??? The facts are, in Indiana, you follow state laws, regardless if you are a preserve owner or not. This is what preserve owners dont like.

Ruddyduck, as i just mentioned, the law was already written before Bellar did what he did. He knew the law and he simply refused to follow it. Just do a little search on Russell Bellar and find about the 30+ state game laws he broke. Again, the issue here is that preserve owners are mad becuase Indiana doesnt see these animals as livestock. The preserve owners must follow state laws and they cant stand it. Which is why Bellar did drug deer, did allow for customers to shoot well over the bag limit, did bait deer, let unlicensed hunters hunt and so forth. Another thing is that there was actually no law saying canned hunts was a legal activity in this state. The law was pretty grey in that area.

As for bird preserves, Bellars buddies already have complained about that and the ban that was passed does not include bird preserves, only whitetails and exotic mammals. And last i looked, whitetails dont have wings and cant fly away, especially inside a 5 acre pen.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Bigbuck, stop and think aboutyour accusations toward me for a sec...maybe there IS a reason why I know so much about this case, whether its next door to you, or whatever. You twist words, I dont. I didnt say those things did not happen at Bellars place. I said they dont happen everywhere, and all other high fence operations should not be compared nor judged based on his. Hey, I know a guy who gut shot a deer last year, because he couldnt get a better shot, but the arrow made it bleed long enough for him to eventually find it anyway. So, bigbuck, thats how YOU hunt too, correct? Well, it MUST be, using YOUR logic. No? Well what the hell, welcome back to earth! Sucks to be judged based on the actions of one wrongdoer, huh? No, we DO NOT condone what Bellar did. But, he was also accused of many things that were not done, and other claims that, while not illegal, could impact the rest of us doing things ethically and legally. I already mentioned the Lacy Act. Theres tons of things going on. I DO know what Im talking about. People operating high fence hunts in your state only hoped that the action involved in Bellars case might open eyes to the need for law and regs concerning these types of hunts. I also didnt call you a liar. I also read all the crap youll refer to as links. I also know MY info is sound. In fact, Ive had it trying to get through to folks like you. Its no use. I guess you need to see it as you do. No need to address me here, Im through here.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Bill, first off i didnt twist anything around. How many times have i said to you this is an Indiana issue? Im not interested in shutting you down over there in New York. Im only interested in the state i live and hunt. We saw what Bellar did here, we know how the preserve owners in this state called him the "messiah", and we know how they still continue to support him and blame the state of Indiana as being "unfair". You know as well as i do what they want to achieve. They want to be like other states and not have to live under the state game laws.

Lets be honest here, many people do not blame him for what he did becuase in other states people may do whatever they wish with their privately owned animals. Like I said, preserve owners arent interested in following laws, there only interetsed in seeing how far they can bend them. Im speaking about Indiana here, no place else. In a lot of places, what Bellar did wouldnt even be a crime. Im sorry the laws are what they are.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

I care if a deer was drugged becuase in the state of Indiana it is a crime to drug deer. Just like it's a crime to hunt without a license or shoot deer from the roads. I pay roughly 70 bucks a year in deer tags to be able to hunt. If i see someone do something illegally im going to report it.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

BigBuck00, I understand that the violations you listed above are indeed illegal in the state of Indiana. I agree, and have agreed since this arguement began that Bellar should be held responsible for every single violation he commited. Being a resident of Indiana, and running a business in Indiana, he should know, and follow the states laws.

Where my problem with your logic comes in is this........WHY should the owner of privately owned animals need to buy a license that allows you to kill STATE owned animals to kill his PRIVATELY owned animals? Surely you agree that this is a tad bit ridiculous.

If this should be the law, why are ranchers or slaughter houses permitted to kill beeves without using a state hunting license tag?

Also, I cannot disagree with you about other high fence owners in Indiana holding Bellars operation in high regard. I do NOT know these other owners. I can say this......Bellar has been charged with several violations that would be illegal in any state that I am aware of, so why these other operators of high fence would put him on a pedastal is beyond me.

When you say it is illegal to drug a deer in Indiana......do you mean it is illegal to drug one for the purpose of making it easier to hunt/kill? Or do you mean it is illegal to drug it ever?

If Indiana makes it a violation to drug a whitetail for ANY reason ever.....then Indiana better completely outlaw high fences for any purpose. If you cannot inoculate your animals, then you are asking for serious problems. Whitetails are not like elk, you must put them down to care for them.

I really think the big sticking point here is that we are not on the same page regarding the fair chase aspect of this issue. High fence hunting is NOT fair chase hunting, period!

It does not have to be. Animals killed inside the confines of a high fence are not eligible for P&Y, or B&C record books, as they should not be.

High fence hunting is NOT what most hunters want to do, and I fall in this category myself......never did it, and don`t care to.

But, there are several reasons why some people like to participate in a hunt like this.......no time in their life to hunt the conventional way is one.

Disabled person, maybe in a wheelchair is another.

Maybe someone on deaths doorstep, with one last wish?

Or maybe it is a completely healthy individual with a lot of years ahead of him that just WANTS to do a hunt like this.

I agree that high fence operations should have strict rules about animal densitys, health of animals, etc., etc., etc.

Mr. Yox will tell you, and I do not know Bill Yox that I am aware of......any legitimate high fence operator, whether he is raising animals for hunting, urine, semen, or whatever, does NOT want to overcrowd his animals. He does NOT want to let his animals go unattended or uncared for. And he certainly does NOT want to include any stated owned animals to be in his fences to innerbreed with his privately purchased animals.

Most high fence operations I am aware of far exceeds any laws regarding their operation in the state they have their business in.

There is simply too much money invested to treat the animals otherwise.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Slaughter houses for beef, sheep, hogs are state regulated and must follow state laws.Only live animals may be taken to aslaughter house in Indiana. If your animal is dead you can not take it to a slaughter house/ processing plant. You can not kill a cow and take it to the slaughter house. Better have a good knife and meat grinder.

Hunting licenses come with transpotation tags, if you want to tie your animal up to a post and kill it you still need a tag to take it to a processing plant where the animal is give an identification tag that stays with the animal thru processing and it is inspected for disease. If it is anyway tainted it is destroyed and you are informed. All deer get inspected.

Drugging animals for hunting purposes is illeagle, Bellars did it.

Even if I was at deaths doorstep I would not hunt a small penned animal.

And yes most of us only get to hunt in 3-5 or less acre area each time we hunt but our animals are not penned up in this area, wemust rely upon the whim of nature.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

And NOT one single thing you just said is an answer to the questions a I stated them.[&:]

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Sorry to hea about your complications. I sincerely hope that all goes well. And thanks for a good debate.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Actually if you were not obtuse and read what was said you would see why you need a license for the deer. You would see that slaughter houses are governed.

If you wanted to just kill something and leave it lay on the private property then you would not need a license. But then again that is totally against my ethics.

You would see that Bellars did drug deer for killing. It was documented.

I am done with you.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Thank you, your emotion filled, yet uninformed replies are useless to this discussion anyhow.

BTW, if you feel this is in violation of any board rules, I will gladly help get your point across to one or more of the moderators.;)

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

I was being honest when I was wishing you well because of your surgery complications so get off your high horse.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Dude, thank you for the well wishes, I did take your post as being sincere.:)

My last post was for Indianahick, that is why I quoted him.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Sorry for jumping to conclusions.

This thread is been too hotly debated. I know I will never change someones opinon's about as to why I think that "canned hunts" should be illegal no more so than somone would convince me that they should be legal. It is good that we live in a country where we are allowed to express our opinions and may speak out even if others disagree.

With that being said, debate on!

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

As i said in a previous post, im sorry the laws are what they are. Yes, in Indiana, all canned hunting preserves must follow state laws, whitetail deer are not viewed as livestock. It has nothign to do with my logic, thats just what the law states. Whether or not its ridicuolous is beside the point, there are NUMEROUS laws i think are ridicuolous, that doesnt mean i elect to ignore them. Id rather not spend my days sitting behind bars.

As Indianahick mentioned, slaughterhouses are also state governed. Cattle are livestock, whitetails are not. This is what the entire issue revolves around. Whitetails not being looked upon like cattle. Some dissagree with the law, but it is the law and should be followed. One of the witnesses at Bellars trial testified Bellar told him that state laws didnt apply to him because he owned a deer farm. Clearly he feels he is above the law.

And yes, there are people who have backed Bellar all along and still believe Indiana is at fault and that Bellars work will someday change Indiana laws. There is a deerfarmers website around on the net, google it up and pay it a visit sometime and read some of the comments about Bellar from the deerfarmers themselves. Here is a comment i took directly from that board. This is by Mr. Bruce, an Indiana deer preserve owner. "Russ is supported 100% by sportsmen and and the Indiana Deer Farmers". Some of the things i have read are hilarious. Again, everything is Indianas fault, not Bellars. Heres another. "Bottom line.......Does Russ own his land?.....Does he own the livestock he possesses???" You can kinda get the picture here, everyone makes excuses for the guy. Clearly some either arent aware of Indiana law, or simply refuse to accept it.

When i say you cannot drug a deer, i mean you cannot drug a deer for the purpose of being able to herd it into a 5 acre pen to be shot 5 minutes later. This is what Bellar did and he pleaded guilty to it. Ronnie Dunn testified it was like "slaughtering cattle". Too bad cattle is livestock and deer arent for Mr. Bellar. Russ would then turn around and sell the drug contaiminated meat across state lines, another law that was broke. These deer were drugged for the purpose of being killed.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

The owner of the farm won the case.

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

So if I owned my land and I owned my dog, cat, donkey, horse etc.........then I could go out and shoot my dog with out fear of animal cruelty charges????????

RE: Law banning "canned" hunts in Indiana...
 

Incorrect if you're referring to Bellar , he's in a federal pen for 2 years and shelling out over 1/2 million in fines for 28 Lacey Act violations . If you're referring to Rodney Bruce you're still incorrect , all Rodney won was a temporary injunction while all the parties involved examine some issues before the trial proceeds . Ironically , it was Rodney's lawsuit that precipitated the immediate closure of the other killing zoos since the Legislature couldn't move forward on his operation while the case was pending . Gotta love that . LOL :D

Every state has the inalienable right to set it's own laws , laws that are decided by it's citizens regardless of how the laws may be viewed by other states . Public opinion , the basis of all laws , will be the final determining factor for the few deer pimps here , and in the end they will be eradicated for this reason . The best that they can hope for is a couple of operating years under stringent scrutiny so that they can recoup their investments , an offer they have already refused . We don't want them here , they never should have set up here without first guaging public opinion , and I won't shed a tear when they leave . As to it being tatamount to eradicating a form of hunting ? In your state maybe , not ours . That sheit ain't hunting here , it's just slaughter . I'm quite sure they'd love to move to your state , and you can have them with the blessings of the citizens of Indiana .