Warning about Rich's Hunting Adventures
 

Just a warning to my fellow hunters - I booked a hunt in Craig Colorado in January of this year with Rich Botta of Rich's Hunting Adventures out of New York. I gave him a $2000.00 deposit. He cashed my check. After ten months with no response to e-mails, calls, or texts, two weeks before the hunt, he tells me he has no hunts in Craig. Says I can hunt in Mexico! No offer made to hunt in the U.S. as a replacement. I asked for my deposit back, he texted “lol”. He has kept my deposit.

Sled Reynolds

Sorry to hear that.
Sounds like maybe you should have done some more homework. Did you book with a middleman out of NY to hunt out west? Personally, if I was ever going to book a hunt, it would be directly with the outfitter and I'd have a ton of references. Hope you get a refund (unlikely) or at least get to hunt. If not, take them to court.

Report this crook on http://bowsite.com/bowsite/outfitter...?reportid=2438

For $2k deposite I hope you have some documentaion. Save your texts and get a bank statement, go to you attorney. Eff that crap.

Keep all correspondents and head to a lawyer,

This is my edit:
While I wont question whether this is honest or not I do notice after taking a look around that you have blasted this as your first and only post on dozens of sites. Most likely not a smart move on your part even though if true can completely understand your anger.

Contact the BBB.org and file a complaint. (He has an "F" rating already! WORST there is and you should have seen that before sending him your money)
Go to RipOffReport.com and tell your story.
Go to every hunting forum you can find on the internet and repeat this post.
Go to HIS local craigslist.org and the closest three or four around him and repeat this post every week.
If you paid via a credit card, call your credit card company.. They will yank the money from his account so fast it will spin like a quarter on a table.. I'm not sure if this will work in your situation because of the 10 month time but you can try.. They may not start the proverbial clock until delivery.. or perhaps time of purchase.

Is that a joke?

While it is technically possible to take the guy to court, it would probably cost $20,000 in legal fees and even if he won, it doesn't guarantee he can collect.

Now if the guy is local to you, that's a different story.

Why not a smart move? That's exactly what the internet is for.. (besides great porn of course)..

The sharing of information.. hard to beat an Amazon review.... not much different here..

Not true all it cost is 150 $ or so to file a civil suite. A lawyer to handle it would be under a grand. If he one the guy that screwed him would pay all fees as well as money owed.

I know I just went through one.

Plaintiff files suit.. Filing costs $150
Lawyer charges $1000 for 4hrs of his time at an average of $250/hr.
Plaintiff answers lawsuit contesting it.
Judge orders pretrial negotiations to attempt to resolve it early.
Plaintiff's delays pretrial for whatever stupid reason they can come up with.
Lawyer asks for another $1000.
Pretrial negotiations take place with no result.
Then we have discovery and depositions.
Lawyer says its going to drag out for a bit more.. Need another $5000.

See where this is going? I comes down to the state laws.. In states where the loser must pay winners legal fees, this crap doesn't happen... but in states where each side is responsible for their own fees, it is the rule, not the exception.

And, if the defendant has a relative or good friend who is a lawyer, then you're really screwed.

Our legal system is a joke.. the only lawsuits that work are those in the high five figures or more. Under $10k? Forget it...

Ok if the guy comes back and explains something other then his one post I might take this more seriously. Other then that this could be a former employee, a competitor, could be anything. But for someone who has the option to sue you are gonna want to have your ducks in a row. Your gonna want to have a paper trail of transactions, communications, everything. If he takes it to court and fails to prove his point all the agent guy needs is a screen print from each forum he has visited to counter sue or even the agent start a lawsuit himself for slander, or defamation.

Well, like I said, he's probably not going to get his money back because its not enough to sue for.. There's a real gap in our civil suit system between small claims and a regular district level court.. You can sue for a little, or you can sue for a lot.. but the gray area in the middle takes the economics out of it.

Also, with a BBB.org rating of "F" already, I doubt this is a disgruntled employee as the pattern seems to fit.

I see your point however and you're not wrong..

I read this post this morning. Did a quick check. Seems like there have been several complaints filed against this person, and an F rating by the BBB.

Yes you can sue someone for $2000, and he can also put attorney fees in the lawsuit also. If he has a past the judge will see it. I say go for it.

I know a cheaper way. A $600 plane ticket and cab ride to his front door.

Around here, small claims has jurisdiction up to $5,000, I believe. File in your home state, he won't show up, get a default judgment, file a lien on his house, business, whatever you can find, and wait til he tries to get a loan, you'll hear from him.

If this happened in CO, then the originator needs to file a complaint with the Colorado Guides and Outfitters Association (they do a great job of policing themselves), the Colorado Division of Wildlife (I know it changed to Parks but I still call it DOW), and the Moffat County Chamber of Commerce. Craig is in Moffat County.

All Guides in CO are required to be licensed and registered. if you sent him a deposit by mail in accordance with a contract or agreement, then the guy is in violation of Federal Law because it happened by Post office. If the State of CO gets wind of this and it is found to be warranted, then his guide license will be suspended. The Guide and Outfitter Association can bring a lot of peer pressure on him and the Chamber of Commerce ban make doing business in Moffat County difficult. The DOW will keep a close eye on him if his license is suspended. Big Game hunting in CO is a multi-billion dollar a year business and they take crap like this seriously.

Of course, this is assuming the complaint is valid. It sounds a little suspicious to me since all deer tags in CO are limited and the originator would have had to apply for the tag by Apr 2013. If it was a land owner voucher, he would have had to do some paperwork to transfer the voucher from a landowner to himself. None of this could have been done without some sort of correspondence via the outfitter. And, it can't be done in the last 2 weeks.

My take, there is more to the story than this guy is telling us.

You know the old saying, "Bad publicity (especially free) is better than no publicity."

I saw this same cry and whine on another forum where Richie Botta showed up to refute the original claims and tell about everything he offers, the millions of satisfied customes, thousands of references, history of trophy animals and blah, blah, blah.

MAJOR SPAM!!!!!

Huntersled was on www.aldeer.com (Alabama deer hunter) site a few weeks ago with this same statement. The outfitter posted a response that disputed these claims. I have no dog in this fight, but I would double check rather than take this as 100%.

This is a scam or spam post and possibly on both fronts. The agent doesn't give the legit feeling and the poster doesn't give the legit feeling either especially after what i have seen.

As for suing, keep in kind that someone losing a small claims decision is no guarantee that any money will ever be paid. There are deadbeats with multiple judgements against them.

They should be under threat of arrest but alas, the courts have their filing fees and don't give a **** about your judgement. I won a $4300.00 judgement from a deadbeat tenant who then moved out of State and I have not and will not see a penny.

Hi everyone what sled did not tell you is that he was so happy with my services the first year he booked again the second year!!! I do have hunts for him to go on in the US but he does not want to go he booked with someone else!!!

I have been in business over 12years and booked over 1000 hunts and had 1000's of happy clients and returning clients how much bad stuff do you read about me on the internet?? not much problem is when clients are happy they dont tell anyone or go on websites and talk about it. once in awhile you will have a client like this gentleman and i do have hunts in Colorado,montana,canada,Utah and many more area's for mule deer thanks Rich

Yo Rich,

Yo didn't specifically answer to this claim:

After ten months with no response to e-mails, calls, or texts, two weeks before the hunt, he tells me he has no hunts in Craig.

Did the OP really have to wait ten months to hear from you?

I wouldn't respond to this thread, just let it die. I will explain for anyone else who may think to continue.

The original posters IP was posted on another forum. IP was listed from Bakersfield, CA. If you do a search of his name to Bakersfield your results are gonna be for some Hollywood professional Animal Trainer blah, blah, blah. Why would an animal trainer with animal rights background go on a hunting excursion i don't know.

Now to the Rich guy. Looking at his associated accounts like his Ebay account for example. All his positive feedback was from accounts in 2010 and prior. Has he not had any hunts since then. He still has several dozen posted on ebay. Every site with a negative comment has the same generic response.

Im not saying this whole thing couldn't be real but the feel and coincidence just doesn't feel like a real issue. More an attempt to get his name out using a poor method of a complaint first and response.

The guy's an animal trainer with an animal rights background?? You have the booking agent on here saying this isn't the first trip the guy has taken, so I highly doubt he's some anti-hunter out to wreck the agent's business.

And to anything that thinks this is an attempt at getting publicity by posting a complaint and coming on here and responding to the complaint like a hero I think you all are mistaken too. The original poster has posted this on dozens of websites, of which the agent has only responded to a handful. I know people say any publicity is good publicity...well, there are times when it isn't.

The agent has gotten on here and not responded directly to any of the original poster's issues. Instead he has spouted off statements that have nothing to do with the OP's concerns. Based on the other reviews and anecdotes out on the internet about Rich's Hunting Adventures, it sounds like this agent is a borderline crook and I applaud the OP for getting the word out.

Anyone else notice the OP hasn't been back to answer questions?

Smells funny to me now too...

No way!!!!!! There is a very good chance that the OP is spot on with his complaint.

Rich Botta has an F rating with the BBB:

http://www.bbb.org/NYC/business-revi.../#reasonrating

There is this on Bowsite:

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/OUTFI...?reportid=2438

And there is this:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...hrough_Rich_Bo

It it looks like a skunk, acts like a skunk and smells like a skunk; beware it may be a skunk.

Google is your friend.

Yes Google is your friend you should use it.

How bout contacting Magnum then, he does have an account here with Hunting.Net though has never posted. Maybe bring him in for more information.

From my perspective, you got a complainer going around copying and pasting his complaint to dozens of sites talking about being ripped off. Very few did he give a follow up post and the follow up post is just a thanks for comments nothing else. I also dont like the coincidence that his IP traces back to Bakersfield, CA which his name is for a Hollywood animal trainer.

Now to the business of Rich Botta, I have never cared for BBB and that is from bad experience with them. Thats also another story for another time. Back to topic. So magically the Agent shows up relatively after a few posts about him to do what, practically do the same thing copy and paste a response disputing the claim. Again very few times did he give a follow up and the follow up was a generic response.

So like I said, I don't know if this is real or not. Don't know if this is a very poorly designed attempt to get his name out, I don't know.

I don't trust animal trainers, and activists coming onto sites with a single post complaining about something involving hunting and i sure don't like how this particular agent goes about his business if legit or not. So as i said think this one should die but was brought back to life by someone else.

[quote]
I don't trust animal trainers, and activists coming onto sites with a single post What evidence do you have that the guy is an animal trainer or "activist"?

i own rural properties here in OK. The neighbors and myself had trouble with hunting ranches and booking agents sending hunters to trespass on our property. We all tried talking with the scam artists to no avail. The trespassing ended when the new Dodge diesel pickup belonging to trespassing hunters burned up on the property adjacent to mine. The landowner said the catalytic converter caused the fire.

The original poster doesn't owe any kind of follow up. A quick google search shows that this isn't the first example of people getting hosed by Rich Botta. The IP address being an animal trainer was taken off some other website and has not been validated...the only thing that has been validated is that Rich came on here personally and said this individual was a return client. And if this is an effort to get a business name out there, it will go down in history as the worst business move of all time. You have an example of someone who was so pissed off by what happened to him that he felt the need to share this on dozens of hunting sites. I think it's commendable and it shows the power of the internet. Without it, this individual would have little recourse in getting the word out on what kind of operation this is, which in my mind is pretty plain to see.

Thanks for all your comments and support. To date, the deposit has not been returned. I'm glad to see other hunters coming forward on the hunting forums that have had similar experiences with Mr. Botta. Here is one of them: http://huntingny.com/forums/user/393...tab=reputation Copy below.

Happy New Year to all you!



>> Posted by sthunter on 08 November 2013 - 03:12 PM

Hello Everybody,



My name is Brad and I too was scammed by Rich Botta. I sent him a $4000 deposit in October of 2012 for a mule deer hunt that was supposed to take place in Craig Colorado in November of 2013. He asked that I overnight him the check because "hunts are selling fast". After he cashed my check I received very little correspondence from him despite my MANY MANY attempts. Five months after paying him he got me in touch with one outfitter that wouldn't even accommodate me because Rich Botta sent me. This outfitter despises Rich because he misrepresents his hunts, and refused to do any business with him. Besides the fact that the outfitter dislikes Rich, The hunt was nowhere close to what I was told I would be getting. Rich and I agreed to:



5 day Hunt in Craig CO.

Land Owner Voucher Included

November Dates

1 Free Observer

1x1 Guide

160" Plus Deer



What Rich tried to provide was NONE of the above. I asked for a refund 6 weeks after him cashing the check (November 11, 2012) and to this day I have not received a refund or a hunt. He told me he would refund the money if I didn't get the police involved but he kept making excuses and never did. In September 2013 I went and pressed charges against him and filed a civil suit against him, our court date will be late this month.



I'm sure Rich will chime in and say how he books 200+ hunts per year and he has 1000's of references....Its all crap. Everybody please do yourself a favor and stay away from this man, I hope this message reaches anybody looking to book a hunt through an agent. I posted this to clear up any concerns about this being a publicity stunt.....it is not. Just another pissed of client of Rich Botta trying to warn others. If you have any questions regarding this please feel free to email me at: [email protected]<<

The guy is a dirtbag.

What I am seeing on this outfitters web page is that there is no local information other than a phone number. If it were me, I would want to call up some local sport shops and do a background check before dumping such a load of money down on a hunt that could not be refunded, as per his conditions stated. The 914 area code indicates he is in the New York City area.

Be careful when booking hunts. And do your own background check - don't depend on their own testimonials. And if they do not give you their local business address so you can do this, you might want to take a pass. I think if you were to find a sport shop in this 914 area code that was familiar with this outfitter, they could probably give you some info. I know in my area, every outfitter I know is well known by all the local sport shops.

I didn't see a name attached to the OP's IP address but it did come back to Bakersfield, CA. I looked at the Outfitter's IP address and it comes back to Stamford, Conn. If the OP is an animal trainer, that is certainly suspicious and makes one wonder about that person's intentions/motives. However, if the outfitter has bad BBB ratings, that too is suspicious and also makes you wonder about the outfitter's integrity and motives. I checked the BBB link provided earlier and it only references one complaint in NY. This one sounds like you would need more information to get to the bottom of it.

I was just on another "big name" website today and this same post from this same first poster is on there and the Moderator is trying to decide whether to delete it. I don't know how many times I've seen first time posters come on websites with complaints and it almost always turns out that they didn't do their homework and sent thousands of dollars to someone they didn't know and many didn't even ask for references. As the old saying goes: "There's a sucker born every minute!

For everyone interested in this case:
!---This guy Botta is a booking agent, not an outfitter
2---His website says it's a group of people that have gone on the hunts with outfitters he represents so you can be sure they are good. The NY registration says it's a one person business making $50,000 a year, which is peanuts and probably being done out of a home from the looks of the address on Mapquest!!!
3---There have been two complaints registered with the BBB and one was not responded to by Botta. The other one was evidently resolved when he responded, but it sounds like it wasn't to the satisfaction of the complainant. That is how the business got the F rating!


IMHO there is no reason to go through a booking agent to have a good outfitted hunt. Look at where you want to go and what outfitters are in that area. Most will have a working website that you can look at to get a feel and then you can contact them for more information. The main thing you should ask for is a current list of all the previous clients for the last couple seasons, including all those who ate tag soup. If they aren't willing to do that, go to the next and cross them off your list. If this complaint is on the up and up I will shed no tears when a guy says he dropped $2K to somebody he didn't know from a can of paint and it looks like he didn't do any homework at all before sending the check!!! This is another one of those "he said-she said" that none of us haveany idea of what actually is going on because we know nothing about either Botta or the complainant. I write these off now when I read them as a waste of my good time!

Well, since you're dropping/posting the "Moderator is trying to decide whether to delete it" phrase (on another website of course), I guess I should post something about that since moderators on HNI have to make the same deliberations. HNI rules don't allow somebody to simply bash a business for the sake of bashing but do allow a member to post a legitimate problem they've had with the service/product from that business.

Topics like this one could go either way, depending on how people post in them. This makes them somewhat hard to decide how to moderate, edit, delete or do nothing at all with them.

In this particular post, the OP is claiming he paid money to the Outfitter for a service he did not receive. The outfitter posted that he offered a service that the OP wasn't satisfied with. As you and others have posted, we don't have a copy of the contract and thus don't know what was specifically "contracted" for. Each side claims they are right and the other is wrong.

The OP may be negligent (or "lazy" as somebody opined) in not checking out references. The outfitter may or may not be able to deliver what he specifically advertises/contracts to deliver. Topics like this may offend some members but they also serve to illustrate proper hunter research one should conduct BEFORE signing any contract with an outfitter AND proper steps to resolve issues or problems that arise that may be specific to a state and/or area (Flags post comes specifically to mind) and thus are invaluable advice.

If allowing this topic to remain (as long as it stays within HNI rules) helps an HNI member(s) either avoid a hunting problem like the one described or find a better resolution by following the excellent advice posted, then it's worth having such a topic in the forums. Who knows, maybe the extra spotlight even helps a little more to resolve the problem. :happy0001:

p.s. Since this topic already has over 2,000 views, I think it's safe to assume that some of this stuff may occur. :wink:

There is more information.

http://www.bowsite.com/bowsite/OUTFI...?reportid=2438


More from 24 hour campfire:

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthr...hrough_Rich_Bo

I agree that is certainly more information Falcon but I was referring to (wasn't specific enough) the exact contract language for what is supposed to be provided for what price, etc.

Calhunter---Just a thought, but how about possibly making a separate Forum for this type of stuff where people could come on and tell the good, bad, and the ugly regarding outfitters and booking agents. That way people just getting started could learn what it takes to ensure they spend their money properly. Guys like myself with decades of experience know the ins and outs of all this stuff and probably take a lot of things for granted that the younger guys don't. For instance, many think that because they are dealing with hunting that everything is on the up and up, while it's nothing more than a profit making business for some and they could care less how they make that profit. It's sad, but true!

I have asked admin about that but haven't heard any feedback yet. It's still an excellent suggestion as it would allow all of these posts to be dealt with in 1 forum instead of being spread out a bit. I'll check again.
Cal


Edit--I've sent a lengthy request and explanation to Admin regarding a separate forum for these types of posts. In the meantime, I'm moving this topic to the outfitter forum where it sort of belongs a bit more.

One thing I'm a little curious about is why this is even posted in the whitetail forum? I've been hunting deer, elk and pronghorn around Craig, CO for the better part of 4 decades. That is mulie country not whitetail country. I'm going to go out on a limb and say there probably isn't a whitetail within 100 miles of Craig in any direction. I know I've never seen one there, neither has anyone I hunt with and I've never heard anyone mention seeing one.

The farthest west I've seen a Whitetail in CO was outside of Gould and that is a long ways from Craig. I actually took one by Kremmling once but that is also a long ways from Craig. Just sayin' it is funny this is on a whitetail forum. I don't approve of any guide/outfitter taking advantage of a client. I've never even used an outfitter or a guide in CO and never would. There is a huge amount of hunting you can do on your own and I don't want someone dragging me around and holding my hand unless it is required by law i.e. Canada and Africa. Other than that, I'll hunt on my own and so far I've been pretty successful at it.