Trouble sighting in my Winchester 30-30
 

I have a new (to me) 30-30, from the five year gap where paperwork was lost. It has iron sights. I can't get it sighted in. It hits seriously high. I actually hit the paper today, but was aiming almost two feet low. The rear sight is as high as it will go. I even tried it very low just to make sure I wasn't being crazy. I just don't know what to do now.

Any tips?

TIA

well not sure what you mean by paperwork was lost, but, OK?
WHAT Model 30/30 lever action is this??

First question I have is at what range are you trying to sight this rifle in at, are you shooting free hand or off a bench with sand bag?
are the sights originals, or did someone at some point alter/change them?

Moving the rear sight higher will make it hit higher

ON some 94's there is a second adjustment that can allow for the rear sight to go higher on the ramp

but again, there are SO many different models of 30/30 by Winchester, not knowing what model you have, and or sights ON said model
its very hard to offer more help

there is always again, the option of changing sights, be it front or rear to make things work and since you haven't I gather owned gun since NEW< no clue as to if previous owner changed sights??
but its all fixable for sure with not a lot of mods needed to do so!

please post what exact model and possibly even take some pic's of sights on gun, to help US , help YOU better!

It's a model 94. There is a five year gap in the paperwork that Winchester lost. I think it's from 1943 - 1948. My SN falls in that bracket.
I can't for the life of me up load pics. I will search for links.

Here's a link to a 30-30 with the same sights I have.

https://secure.arnzenarms.com/produc...-sights-no-box

You lower the rear sight to hit lower! If it still hits high after you have the rear sight at its lowest position you can get a higher front bead sight.

This is my second trip trying to sight it in. On the first one we all debated these two points. I took it to a gun store, and they said to raise it up. I have tried both. All the way up and all the way down. No real luck with either. Not sure what to do. I don't want to put a scope on it. I love the traditional look.

Hold your dominant hand fingers in a V shape and your off hand index (or whichever finger you prefer) up in the air and line them up like a rifle sight. Move your 'V' fingers up, and adjust your front finger until the sights are lined up again. Your index(barrel) went up to line up again.

If I were you I would do some reading on proper iron sight usage, sight picture, adjusting, etc. Watching some you tube videos if you can find quality ones may help as well. Once you know you are sighting it properly etc, then go back and try again.

​​​​​​Move the rear sight DOWN to lower your point of impact.

Good luck!

-Jake

ok so are you saying your moving the ramp (rear sight) all the way UP{ and DOWN, and its NOT making any noticeable difference??
are you again SHOOTING< off sand bags and a bench, or free hand?? at WHAT RANGE are you shooting thing??



do the sights on gun seem to be originals or NOT, a gun this old has most likely gone thru many hands over the yrs and as such, many times things get replaced


there should be a noticeable difference from lowest position to highest
and if there adjustment sights, there should also be more adjustment that can be had on them, there should be two screws on rear sight that can allow for some extra movement in things
at about the 6 min mark
sorry not best vid, but what I found fast for you)

then there are a TON of again different rear sights you can add to adjust things, or a shorter front sight,
can go to peep sights? lots of options on these lever guns, if you do NOT wish to go to a scope

but you need to explain how your shooting and if your seeing movements at all or not

from highest to lowest setting on ramp at a 100 yards, there should be a well over a foot of POI(point of impact) movement
if your NOT getting tthis, it MIGHT be the shooter, and NOT the gun, as there is NO way around things, when your moving a sight that much, it HAS to effect point of aim! and thus where its impacting target!


if your having issue's at grouping(you are shooting for groups and NOT just moving from 1 shot to the next RIGHT??)
if your NOT seeing movement, I suggest maybe having some one else shoot gun to rule things out!

and also, what rounds are you using?

Raising the rear sight will raise your point of impact, without question.

If you have shot with the sight as low as it goes and it STILL hits too high, then you need to replace your front sight with a taller blade.

I was thinking about this. Where can I get one?

1 ) You still haven't mentioned the distance you are trying to sight in at . My suggestion is trying no more than 40 yards until this issue is solved

2 ) Everyone posting here explaining to you that raising the rear sight up will also make your gun shoot even higher is absolutely correct
The person at the gun shop that told you to raise the rear sight is an idiot and should not be allowed to handle guns :happy0157:

3 ) It is impossible to have the rear sight set at the highest and the lowest setting and end up with the same result on the target. If you are shooting 2 ft high on the lowest setting on the ramp , then shooting your gun on the highest ramp setting will shoot like a grenade launcher WAY over the target

Questions

When aiming with the rear sight at the lowest setting on the ramp , can you see the ramp when aiming through the V ? If you can then someome maybe has replaced the ramp with one that doesn't belong to to that gun.

Do you see 2 adjustment screws one on each side of the V ? Some of these sights had them and some didn't . If you do , loosen them up and lower the rear sight V.

Is your front sight a blade or is it a bead ? If its a blade , are you aiming with the blade even with the top of the V on the rear sight or are you holding it higher than the top of the V . Personally I have never liked the blade front site.

If you have a bead front site , are you holding the bead at the bottom of the V in the rear site , but still seeing the the entire round bead ? That would be the right aimpoint.

If you have done all these things and everything is still way off in elevation , measure something and tell us what you found.

Take a fine measuring device , anything you have that can give you an accurate measurement , and measure on the front site the distance from the barrel to the bottom or the bead , if you have a bead , or measure from the barrel to the top of the blade if you have a blade.

Lower the rear site to the lowest setting on the ramp . Measure the distance from the barrel , or in this case the receiver , to the bottom of the V and another measurement from the barrel or receiver to the top of the V. Basically this is the top of the rear site . By these measurement you should be able to tell if someone had replaced the front site with something that was too low , or replaced the ramp with something different than the original.

If you find a set of measurements that match the same between the front and rear site , then your sites are aiming on the same plane as the barrel and should be shooting straight minus some fine adjustments .

front sights cn a be had in tons of places, about any place that sells gun parts, and from OEM< winchester

but here are a few for you, you will need to know what size front sight you have NOW< before ordering a new one
, and do you know how to remove and install one?

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/W94DFS

https://schaefershooting.com/3ae3ab4...-94-sights.htm


and some info or you to maybe read on front sights

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=15908

Thanks for all the responses, Gentlemen. I have a few answers -

I am shooting 25 yards.

The first outing I didn't take very seriously going in, as I just assumed it would go as planned. I didn't take a lot of ammo, so the results were not real legit. The second outing I took my shooting sled, and used Hornady American Whitetail 150 grain.

Please be clear on this - whether all the way up or all the way down, the rifle shot high. I did not say that I hit the same spot in each case. It was just high no matter what.

SportsmanNH, you have taken this to a technical level that I have few answer for, but will get. I appreciate your insights and will follow up soon. I have an urgent task of mowing a lawn after work (usually a two day episode) from "She who must be obeyed" to tackle first.

I will try to post pics if possible.

Being slightly high at 25yrds isn’t necessarily a bad thing. I’d expect a 1/4-1/2” high at 25 for a 30-30 with irons zeroed at 100.

What type of front sight base does it currently have? Is it screwed on, dovetailed, banded, or soldered?

It has a fin with a white dot on it, surrounded by a circular cover that slides off. The front sight (not the rear sight) look very much like this one in the link.

https://www.fernwoodarmory.com/Winch...80_p_1361.html

If your front sight looks the same as the one in the link , then I would think its an original . How about the rear sight ? The one in the link has the 2 adjustment screws I mentioned before. Also does your ramp look like the one on this new link ?

I'm not seeing it. Some are close. How the heck do I put up a picture of my gun? I have had no luck with photos on this forum.

Go to a site called imgbb.c o m

You don't need an account or membership. Upload the photo. Select "don't auto delete image"

Then upload.

Then select "BBCode full linked" copy and paste that text directly into your post here.





Hope that helps.
-Jake

also, food for thought on issue';s with uploading pic's here(and else where)
try logging in under a different browser
I know old er folks that use AOL and or other browsers, cannot, add pic's to many forums, due to there not compatible with forums, systems for allowing uploads

so, some time's just logging in with a different browser can allow something to get posted that wouldnl;t on the browser your trying on!

I upload straight from my phone. The mobile interface has a “current attachments” box below the reply window, I click “manage attachments,” then in the next window, “from device”. Select the desired photo, upload, and done. Easy peasy. My only complaint is that it only displays as an attached thumbnail, not as an embedded photo. iOS interface.

With the hood removed, the front sight should simply slide into a dovetail in that base - which is a good thing. Super simple to replace with a taller blade.

Tnx Nomercy448. Here goes.

These are pics from my trip to the range


edit - I don't know if I hate technology more than it hates me or not. I seriously don't know what to do next. Clearly going to the gun store won't help.

I don't understand why people continually try to struggle with using HNIs image upload. The HNI image system works fine for some people. For others, like myself, it does not work at all. And for those it does work for- you end up with a little tiny thumbnail image in your post.

Go to imgbb, and follow the directions I posted if you want to post an image.

I've also posted the instructions under the tech section and it's a little more detailed.

-Jake

I don't know why this didn't post earlier. But this is how your sight picture should look with your point of impact resting on top of the front sight bead.

Umm.... Unless I'm not understanding what you're saying which is possible...nope.

Go do what I said to do with your fingers on the first page. Raising the rear site, you have to bring the barrel UP to line up with the rear- this raises your point of impact.

You move the rear site in the SAME direction you want your point of impact to go. You move your front site in the OPPOSITE direction that you want your point of impact to go.
-Jake

oops, brain fart.:biggrin:

Nope - the taller the rear sight, the higher the impact. When the taller rear is held level with the front sight, the rear of the barrel drops, increasing the up angle of the barrel, casting the bullet higher.

That is how I line it up. Thanks for the help!

Then you're definitely going to need a higher front sight if you have your rear sight as low as it will go and you're still hitting high.

Make sure you keep with the same type of ammo and weight or you will be all over.
I would move your target out to at least 50 yards....myopen sighted rifles I normally sight at 75. I use a piece of posterboard with a mark centered to sight with...it accounts for significant variance.
You mention that you are using a shooting sled, so that should provide consistency. Next I ask, are you wearing good hearing protection? amazing how gunshots will make us flinch unvoluntarily, moving our shots.
Like everyone else has mentioned....you move the rear sight the direction you want your bullet to go.
Next, I have to ask, what is your sight picture? Are you shooting for a mark covering it with your front sight? If so, you are shooting blind, which doesn't help.
You should be holding the top edge....the very edge, at the bottom edge of your target dot. That gives you a fine shooting point. Aim small to miss small.
I replaced my rear ramp sights on both of my (pre-64, 1950s vintage) model 94s with a Lyman aperture sight. It allows much better instinctive sighting, easier adjustment, and both of mine had factory drilled holes for the sight. You may look into that. It is one of the absolute best and cheapest ways to improve the shooting of a 94.

Any update dj?

-Jake

Yes. After another disappointing attempt at the range on Thursday, Mrs. Fan and I drove to Casper to see a reputable gun expert. He said my front sight was too short. I ordered a taller one. Should be here soon.

I'll continue to update. Sure appreciate all the help here!!

That should fix your issue!

-Jake

He seemed to be pretty dialed in, and his reputation is stellar, I'm excited.

As we’ve been sharing here for a couple of weeks now - a taller front sight will fix your problem.

Appreciate your input.

It is always good to hear of a good gunsmith. I am in Casper a couple of times a year, and a fellow never knows when a good gunsmith will be needed. If you are comfortable passing it along, please share his name. Thanks.

He works the gun counter at Rocky Mountain Discount Sports. I can't remember his name for the life of me. I'm old.

Anyway, here's the link - http://www.rocky-mountain-sports.com/ - Turns out that they have stores in other cities too.

I know that store well. Thanks.

If you are shooting off a rest under the barrel; it will put upward pressure on the barrel causing it to shoot high. Try moving the rest close to the reciever. If it still shoots high like that make sure the fore arm is tight. If that will not work; it's your sights.