Todd1700

I have no doubt that he has some knowledge of rifles. But when you cannot discern something that is a fact like 4+4=8 and something that is an opinion it hurts you as a credible source of information. He may be able to tear a rifle apart and reassemble it blindfolded but he has made some comments in this thread and others that are just factually wrong. Comments like Wal-Mart guns are substandard models compared to the exact same model sold in a gun shop. A Tikka is no better than a Rem 710. Etc, Etc,Etc! If he is indeed ALL KNOWING as he seems to think in the area of rifles then he is being intentially dishonest when he says such things which is even worse than just being wrong or ignorant There are a lot of grey areas in the world of guns ripe for opinions but he has said many things that are so off base they go beyond opinion into either absense of knowledge or intential misinformation. Only he can say which. Either way we need to be careful. There are people who read these forums looking for information. We should all be careful to state only what we KNOW and to distinguish our opinion from generally known facts.

Also, although I have allowed myself to be dragged down to this guys person insult level (my fault, I should be a bigger person and I apologize to the innocent bystanders) I invite you to look back and see who it is that ALWAYS turns the thread negative first and starts hurling smarmy condecending person attacks. It is always him and simply saying, "Oh I admit I'm a little egotistical" is no excuse for it. He is not a nice person.

tocs

A year and a half ago I purchased a Tikka T3 is .243 caliber.I put 5 different boxes of Premium ammunition through it,at different bullet styles and grain weights. The best group I could get out of it was an inch and a half with Remington Scirrocco's,I sold the gun.It should have been a tack driver it wasn't.
Maybe I got a lemon.

bigcountry

Hey Todd, I read all thru those posts and I never saw him being "dishonest". Thats just me.

His idea of mass volumn is right on target. My company does it. All do it. Your 20 guns you mention really doesn't put a dent in teh statistics. Well I am not here to teach you statistics and yields and deviations. I am saying the man did not lie, he has an opinion like yours. I believe the Tikka is a step up from the 710, but I don't like them. I would spend the extra money on a gun I feel is better quality. Has more of the things I am looking for. Now you don't agree, but it doesn't make me a liar.

His concept of Walmart and all that is pretty well a proven business case. And it boils down to your QA department. If you are like my previous company that did things pretty stupid and the QA department is under the same VP as the manufacturing, and your bonus is tied to yields, then he is absolutely correct.

Read thru thier Quarterly statement just ending last month. Its on the SEC website. You will get a feel for how they care for quality, and thier relationship with Walmart. They won't mention them by name but will go far as referring to a company that sells some of the most firearms in america, and thier biggest customer. Read thru it and get a feel for the relationship. I have been ingrained in company/manufacturing/engineering world for 10 years. What the man says makes perfect sense.

Todd1700

A Remington Model 700 ADL, Weatherby Vanguard, Savage 110, etc, etc at Wal-mart is exactly the same gun as one sold in any gun store in America. To say otherwise is just urban myth. Now if you want to blame large chain stores like Wal-Mart for the existence of guns like the 710 remington then you can make a round about case for it but factories don't make one grade of Vanguard, Model 700, M77 Mark II for Wal-Mart and another grade for gun stores. Time for this Urban legend to die and someone as knowledgable as Oldelkhunter should know better.

Of course not because you just clearly stated this as YOUR OPINION and not a statement of fact.

bigcountry

Todd, I take it you don't work in a high volumn manufacturing enviroment or with anything to do with quality assurance. Just curious, what do you do to put dinner on the table.

Todd1700

Medical/Surgical RN Supervisor.

Todd1700

Well in addition to the Tikka is a throwaway gun comment the man tried to tell me which guns I do and do not own.

bigcountry

So your a pretty smart feller. Listen, I am not saying that Walmart sells inferior guns. I am saying I have seen many times in a high volumn manufacturing enviroment, that contracts where they are the main customer and you have to get out a certain number of products before the end of the quarter, that getting them out the door is the first priority. And every time, quality suffers. Here's where I notice Japanese companies do well. Their quality department usually catches most of the problems, and won't let them pass, where alot of the American companies say, get it out the door, meet the quarter, and fix it later. Its an unfortunate part of business.

Todd1700

I understand what you are saying. But if a company lets quality suffer because they have bitten off more than they can chew volume wise then I blame them not the client who orders the product. Bottem line it's Remington, Ruger, Savages name on the gun not Wal-marts and their reputation that suffers if it's a POS.

I realize that companies have come out with economy model product lines that certainly sell well to large chains like Wal-Mart. The oft mentioned Rem 710 and Leupolds Rifleman scopes come to mind, but keep in mind if there wasn't a market for these products then they wouldn't make them and stores like Wal-Mart wouldn't sell them. As long as thats the case I don't blame the companies. No one is obligated to buy them and it's no secret that they are a lower budget econo model compared to these companies regular line up. Ultimately these products will live or die based on consumer acceptance or rejection of them.

48thguns

I own a Tikka 7mag WTH deluxe and it shoots great. It's kind of like a cheap Sako. A cheap Sako is better than most. the end, regards, Rick.