RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

You missed my point, Grantwwod. The Cdl is a great looking weapon, but if you stack it up against a 70's-80's vintage Bdl, what I'm talking about becomes apparent. Remington is a fine weapon, just not the same as they used to be.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

i agree i think they are getting to worried about they "cost" and makeing rifles of less quailty.
if i had it my way they would drop the 710. keep making the SPS the way they are "so they have a less expensive decent quailty gun" and take all their other rifles and do the extra small things that makes them as good as they used to be. even if it cost $100 more.

who ever said that the ruger triggers are better are full of it. now if you bought a new remington and a new ruger, the ruger is going to be a better quailty gun. however i don't like buying a new gun and then haveing to spend 100 more for a trigger. if ruger would ever take the time to put decent tiggers in their guns they would be #1 by far

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Killer 243. You are right on there. When you buy a ruger rifle you better be thinking of addind 60.130.00 into a trigger job or a new trigger. The last three Ruger rifles that I have picked up wre basically un-shootable without trigger work. I have found a Good smith that does the trigger for about 40-60 dollars and can make them decent. It unexcusable to put out a product that has to go to the shop on the way home. I love the sturdy build and overall quality other than the trigger.

So far I have seen no real problems with Remington products. My new Remingtons seem to shoot and handle about like the older ones.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I will settle it go buy a charles daly mauser 98, you can do the trigger yourself from about 1.5 to 4.5 pounds

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Frizzellr I couldn't have said it better.I'm sure Remington is still making some decent rifles, Not the same quality they were 20 years or so ago.I know I would be a proud owner if I could only get my hands on a 710.Or a 597 for that matter.

Ruger Redhawk

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I own the following Remingtons:

2 870 Express shotguns (3 years)
1 870 Express youth shotgun (2 years)
1 710 (1 year, maybe 100 rounds through it)
1 597 (2 years, couple thousand rounds through it)

All shoot fine and I've had no problems from any of them (no parts falling off, no rattling parts, etc.) except that the magazines for the 597 are crappy. So I don't know what the so-called "problem" is with Remington that is being discussed. None of these are show pieces, but for someone who has 2 kids that like to hunt, it's nice to have firearms that don't cost $500+.

Just my experience.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I'm going to start by saying, i haven't bought a "new" Ruger 77 or a "new" 700 Rem. in many years!!! BUT, here's why i still have 700's and no 77's..

I never liked Ruger triggers!!! 700's were always easy to ajust where you wanted them!!

I never liked the way Ruger 77 long actions were a bit "shorter" that the 700 long actions!! When you bought a 77 in a mag. cal., you always ended up haveing seat the bullets deeper to keep the noses from getting all beat up!!!

I never liked the way the bottom of the Ruger 77 receivers are made, because they are so much harder to bed that a 700!!! This is a big deal to me!!!

AND, when i was buying them, there's absolutely no question that Rem. sent there 700's out with better, smoother bbls. than Ruger did!! Rems "always" out shot Rugers!!!

I use to shoot bench rest, and it would be all Rems. winning out on the line, no one shot a Ruger!! WHY???? Because you'd never win with one!!!! Some tried, but soon they had a Rem. too!!!

Drilling Man

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I've been a Remngton fan all of my life and all of my centerfire rifles are Remingtons.

I'm planning on a caribou hunt this fall and wanted to buy a stainless steel 300 Win for the hunt. I looked at the new SPS rifles and was shocked at how shoddy they looked. They looked like they were made at the lowest bid third world nation that Remington could get under contract.

I was able to order a 700 BDL stainless steel from WAL Mart that was still in stock and it's a beautiful rifle. The 700 SPS can't even begin to compare to the older 700 BDL SS.

All I can figure out is that Remington (who sells 20% of it's total production to WAL Mart) is lowering it's price points to the point they are producing junk for the sake of a cheap price. Long-term, it would appear to be a strategy that wil bring them grief

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

remingtons always outshoot rugers thats a bunch of b.s. if i ever heard any

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

"IF" you are refering to MY post, then you need to read it again!!!!

Did i say Remingtons always outshoot Rugers????? NO i didn't.

Drilling Man

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

"What is happening too Remington?"

Gotta hour? lol I think you can sum it up with one easy statement: Welcome too the world of sellouts doing to much business for their own good, especially with such likes as Wal-Mart.

I can't state it any easier than that. To be fair, I don't think ALL of Remington's guns are questionable or their quality has gone "down the crapper" across the board. They still make some decent "good guns" like the BDLs, CDLs, Model 7s, Special Purpose's etc... But man when they build a cheap gun brother they build a CHEAP GUN!!! [:@] And IMHO it began when they started the "Express" model shotguns that they first built for discounters, namely Wal-Mart. They continued into the 700s with revamped ADL synthetics which featured the same "parkerization" that is featured on the Express shotguns. I hope the new SPS 700s are better in that respect than their predecessors the ADLs. That is THE sorriest finish I have EVER seen on a major production company firearm. The finish is so weak that a simple nylon guncase will rub it off and the gun will begin to rust quickly with only light use. Likewise the fit and finish of such guns is deplorable as well. They feel like the plethora of cheap Turkish and former Eastern Bloc country imports that are flooding the markets now.

That cheapness also extends into the plastic parts being used in the guns, particularly trigger assemblies that are featured on such guns. I can't see the justification for saving only $200-$400 on the purchase of say a shotgun when buying a Special Purpose will yeild a gun that can be handed down too ones heirs. While the Express' wont last long enough to even allow those heirs to learn to shoot on the same gun that you did! [:'(] Again I ask, "Is their lower price of admission worth it in the end?"

My first rifle was a 700ADL. That was back in the mid 80s and obviously before the synthetic stocks and that ghastly parkerization finish. The old ADLs simply were BDLs with cheaper stocks that didnt feature a mazagine floorplate or fancy checkering. But the metals, finishes and trigger assemblies were the exact same as the higher priced models.

Quality Control has REALLY taken a severe nosedive at Remington over the last few years. The latest example I have happened within the last 2 months. Case in point. I had a customer come in and buy a 597 (17HMR) laminated stock. We rigged it up with scope, laser boresighted it, sold him a couple boxes of ammo and he was going to go straight too the field to shoot it after he cleaned it up a little. He came back later that afternoon with a nasty mark on his arm and a blown up rifle for his troubles! [:-] I wouldn'tve believed it had I not seen it for myself. The VERY FIRST shot in the rifle caused all kinds of havoc. The bolt froze shut, the ejection arm blew out of the bolt (which was the cause of his wound on the arm) and more unbelievable the laminated stock SPLIT at the pistol grip. About 4 layers just seperated! It looked like you tried to drive a hatchet through the stock. Amazingly he wasn't all that mad and simply wanted a new rifle (how many in todays world would've gotten a lawyer before the rifles report was silent?) and to be on his way again. We replaced his rifle, re-rigged it and sent him on his way. I just would not have believed a simple rimfire could've caused that much damage too itself.

We sent the rifle back too Remington and told them what happened. They sent us a brand new replacement a few weeks later (which was a rediculous amount of time if you ask me!). Then after we got the new rifle back it was recieved by our recieving department (non-hunters and non-gun guys who simply aren't into anything other than doing the 9-5 thing everyday, so unless something is laying in two pieces or obviously abused they continue "business as usual" with receiving.) As I took the rifle from the box and was putting it in a display rack I noticed several small dings in the stock that looked like it had been dropped in gravel or something. The metal was clean though so I cant explain the stock being so banged up. Upon closer inspection AGAIN I noticed seperation in the laminate. Not nearly as obvious as with the case of the blown up rifle, but seperation none the less, through about 3 layers or wood on this one. How ANYONE could've let such a gun go in such condition from the factory is simply beyond my comprehension. It speaks VERY poorly of Big Greens QC and their attention too detail.

The gun was factory sealed in their typical cardboard box with molded styrofoam cradle so I know it wasn't damage done by UPS while in transit. This gun left the factory in such shape. Again thats just one of the latest cases I have with regards too them.

Mark my words, Wal-Mart and Remingtons obsession to supply them at no regards too cost (meaning they are over producing based on their capacity) will be the death of them if they dont do something and do it quick. On the present course I give them 5 years MAX before their name becomes mud among the general gunowning public. Bankrupcty could be a REAL possibility for them within the next decade on their present course!

It urks me too no end that the biggest name in American gunmaking is headed for such a catastrophe if they dont pay attention!
RA

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

After reading all this I wasn't going to post anything but what the heck, I'll just tick everybody off. This thread should have been "what's happened to Remington, Winchester, Ruger, Savage and on and on. Tikka has barrels blowing up....thanks alot Beretta....you can't find decent wood on much of anything anymore. We have allowed the manufactures to cut costs by purchasing plastic and laminates instead of steel and wood. All the parts are stamped, triggers are so bad, they make the rifle nearly unshootable. Stocks have so much lacquer on them they look like plastic (or none at all). I'm making myself sick. I am 59 years young and still remember the old Sako's, Steyrs, Parker Hales, Winchesters, Rugers and Remingtons when these rifles were tack driving works of art. Ah the good old days. This is the reason that I collect and shoot older guns. I guess Kimber may be the exception.....anybody had any experience with them??? And finally, the super magnums are out....oh boy are they ever fun to shoot...once! Regards, Rick.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Remington is what happen to Remington. We can not blame Walmart or any other discount store chain for lack of quality. I also want to ask this question does this mean the Remington 870 express I can buy at Walmart is lesser in quality than the 870 express selling at the local gun shop, because Walmart is selling it for $30 less?? Now one thing I will agree is that you will not see very many higher end Remingtons for sale at your discount stores, and are usually exclusive to that of you smaller gun stores.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

One thing is an ABSOLUTE FACT!!!

"If" "no one" was buying the junk, they'd soon QUIT makeing it!!!!

Drilling Man

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

THAT is the bottom line DM.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I agree DM. I started this post and I think you finished it. That is, in fact, the bottom line, and i'm doing my part.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I just bought one of those cheap savages in .204 funny my wife didnt think it was cheap. after sighting in and breaking in I fired 10 shots at 100yds, the group,well you wouldnt belive me if I told you.I really like this cheap rifle.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

CBASS I will not tell you that one Express is any different than another Express because they aren't. They are EXACTLY the same gun and in fact the Express was actually created in the late 80s for the big discount stores by Rems then owner DuPont. But they sold so many that soon smaller dealers and all the wholesalers began demanding them. BUT trust me on this, they are NOT a Special Purpose. But, they aren't marketed as a replacement too the SPS' while in fact they DO canabalize sales from Rems higher end gun sales. Like I said, I personally think that the Express series of guns ushered in a new era of poor quality acceptance for Remington, especially for their current "bottom line and all costs concerned" ownership. Sure it might have helped them through the 90s but at what cost? What good is a decade of greed if it costs you a centuries old company in the long run?

As for the other guns, I don't agree that ALL makers are building poor firearms. Sure Savage's finish is cheap and poor but their guns are more accurate and better now than ever before in their history! As for Ruger, I likewise don't see where their quality has diminished. Weatherby's quality isn't down either, I just think that Roy's marketing and Roy Jr.s style are/were two entirely different models. As for Kimber, their guns are EXCELLENT. It's their dealer support and employee mindset that I have problems with. Tikka is an GREAT rifle and using that one batch of bad steel as an excuse to dismiss ALL their guns is simply childish. Beretta DID handle that incident lastyear perhaps differently than we would "hope" an American manufacturer would have. But I think that incidence points too two things. First, Beretta is STILL a typically arrogant european corporation. Thats the way MANY such companies think and operate over there. Secondly, perhaps it's indicative of our overly litigious society here in modern day America. Out of the THOUSANDS of pieces of product that was produced only a few were found bad and performed other than as designed. In Europe (and elsewhere outside of the U.S.) thats understood as a possibility and sometimes accepted. No one was really hurt btw. I think we "sue somebody just because" American's were to quick to rush too judgement and wanted our fears and worries turned too monetary damages via the courts. Had I owned one of the handful of Sako/Tikka rifles effected by the recall and I had already had one blowup in my face and escaped with only a bruised ego, then I would only expect a new rifle as compensation from the company. NOT hauling them into court and playing, "What if???" as is today's norm.

Nuff said,
RA

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I have to say that I have never own a Bolt rifle from remington. Had a nice 870 wing master once. I will say this,The stamped out 1100s and the 742s and 7400 would make better Boat paddles that hunting Rifles. Got turned away from Remington after those rifles. Spent more time getting them un hung, than shooting them. They also make great rattleing sounds if you shake them. If it were not for them, I might have tried a 700. Just my 2 cents.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Due to the experience I had with my last 700 I've had absolutely no desire whatsoever to own another Remington of any sort. The only Remington I currently own is a 542 (I think that's right) automatic .22 rifle that my grandfather left me when he died back in the early 70's. If it didn't have so much sentimental value to me I might have sold it a long time ago.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

uh huh......I hope no one else is dumb enough to believe this.............how many people own 1100's? how many squirrels, rabbits, pheasants, turkeys, and deer have been taken with an 1100? and lastly, ....do YOU own an 1100? didnt think so[:'(]

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Man, so many complaints about triggers. All of my guns have one and they all go BOOM when I pull it. What's the big, fat, hairy deal???? I bet some of you argue over whose vehicle has the smoother operating door handle.[8D]

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

obviously a comment made from someone who has never tried shooting small groups, testing reloads, or any benchrest shooting that mattered!! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt since you're new, but next time try not to insult some of the regular guys on here within your first 30 posts ok???[X(][X(]

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I guess I'm in the middle on this one. Personally I have never tried reloading my own ammo or tinkering with my rifles but that doesn't mean as long as the gun goes "boom" I'm satisfied. I do like adjustable triggers as well as bolts with a shorter throw and a gun that is well crafted and accurate. I look at it like I look at cars. Some people are content to drive a pinto with duct tape on the steering wheel as long as it gets you where you need to go. These are the "go boom and I'm happy" shooters. While others would rather drive a 69 mustang gt 500 because they enjoy the driving experience. These would be those who take great pride in their weapons and spend many days fine tuning the ammo just to get tighter groups. Personally my remington .270 is a nail driver. It shoots 1" groups at 100 yards, is very well built and doesn't rattle at all. I just find it funny that those guys driving pintos feel the need to bash those who are driving gt 500s when it's clear who has the greater knowledge of their vehicles. ;)

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Nope, don't do any benchrest shooting that matters. I have an SKS, a 597 and the much despised 710 which I use to hunt deer. Having a finely tuned trigger is a useless feature to me. It will make no difference in whether or not I bag a deer.

I'm not trying to insult anyone, but I do believe I could run several dozen people out of a deer camp by just showing them my lowly 710. As a newbie, it sometimes appears that the more experienced crew seem to expect a $300 or $400 rifle to perform wondrous feats of marksmanship....sorta like those guys in car magazines who expect minivans to go from zero to 60 in less than 6 seconds. Not going to do it because it wasn't designed with that application in mind.

Well, I don't have a Pinto, but I do have a 1996 Windstar with 171,000 miles on it. :) And, no, can't say I put a lot of pride in my firearms. Didn't buy them for that. Just want them to shoot straight and go boom.

Love the signature, bearklr :D

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

you see that explains it, its kinda like the guy whos used to dating fat ugly chicks. (Yes Im comparing a 710 to a fat ugly chick) if you never date anybody who is smaller than the average linebacker, you just dont know what you are missing!!!!:D

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

I didnt reallize all these squirrels I have killed with my 1100 had heart attacks when they seen the gun rather than succumbing to lead poisoning...sheesh what an idiot I must be!! Im gonna try it as a boat paddle...I'll get back to ya....


I only have 5 1100's so I will never be out of luck on the lake!!



Some of the stuff that climbs out of the walls to post on here amazes me..:D

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Mossy it's funny we all had a friend at one point and time in our life who always seemed to settle for that fat chick at the local watering hole. I guess thats why you will never see me holding that double wide Remy 710 in my arms.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

This is what a Remington ADL used to look like. Remeber this is the economy model, not the fancy BDL. I guess a lot of things can change in 30 years.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Neighbor down the street got a nice hot chick (Rem 700 stainless something or other with synthetic stock). Got to hold it. Bolt was nice and smooth, much smoother than the 710's. Worth $200 or $300 more? Nope. At least not to me at this point. Now once the kids are grown and gone and I don't have to fund their hunting equipment, maybe. Although as long as my 710 gets the job done, don't know why I'd spend $500-$1000 on a new rifle - think I'd go to CMP and get a Garand and a 1903 Springfield first.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Ahh, you be speaking my language.:D

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

There's "always" been cheap rifles that shot with the best!!! Ever hear of a Remington 788????????????????????????

A cheaper rifle of old, was many times exactly what Rem. did to there 700 BDL. To make a cheaper rifle they built the 700 ADL, and that was a good idea!!!

"If" you have to turn the metal into "junk" to save money, your pissing in the wrong pot!!!!

Drilling Man

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

well DD if you didn't like the gun why where you dumb enough to get 4 more? i also don't care for the 1100's however i do like my 11-87 a lot.

the only "true" new gun in my safe if a ugly as# 270 savage 110. if shoots right with all my other better quialty guns however it dosen't come near to being built the same. just bought a 30-06 BDL 2 or 3 weeks ago and love it. however even though it is new and never shot it is an older model that when the safty is off the bolt can't be opened. and i have fallen in love with it.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Easy man I love em!! I was being saracastic :D I am one away from a set which I aint gonna be finishing. I like buying rifles too much now! They are all late 60's early 70's models....great guns!

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

BRIMAN,
Thanks for the pic of what an adl "used to look like" here's one of what a 70's vintage bdl looked like.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

That looks like a BDL to me.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

doe dumper- i know i was tring to put it in a way to make it like i understood you but as i reread it i can see it didn't come out that way

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

Walmart will order X number of guns from remington and when the guns are made they may take the order or say we will accept it at a lower price than we agreed upon remington makes a cheep gun for them so they can sell at a lower price and keep the sale. Remington is not the only co. they do this to,.

RE: WHAT IS HAPPENING TO REMINGTON?
 

HUMMMM I don't know how i missed this topic?????

Ruger you should have emailed me and told me of this squawk session!!!!!!:D

I Love my remington 700's and frizzell i would go to the range with you!