RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

If you are speaking to me, I said fatten them NOT flatten them. There is a big difference.:D

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

Ok, Here are some numbers that I crunched for Kinetic Energy. I'll compare my own hand loaded .45-70 to a standard .30-06 and .270.

.45-70: 400 gr. bullet @2000 f.p.s. = 3,554 ft.-lbs.
.30-06: 165 gr. bullet @2850 f.p.s. = 2,977 ft.-lbs.
.270 : 150 gr. bullet @2950 f.p.s. = 2,899 ft.-lbs.

I also read an article in a magazine by a well known writer who had come up with a formula to try an calculate "knockdown power".

Knockdown power= bullet sect. dens. x k.e. x bullet dia.

Using this formula I came up with the following results.

.45-70 400 gr. flat sp, sd= .272 k.e. = 3554 b.d. = .458
Knockdown Power= 443@muzzle 371@ 100yards.

.30-06 165 gr. BT s.d.= .253 k.e. = 2977 b.d. = .308
Knockdown Power= 232@muzzle 201@ 100 yards

.270 150 gr. BT. SP. s.d.= .278 k.e. = 2899 b.d.= .277
Knockdown Power= 223@muzzle 196@ 100 yards.

Hope this adds to the controversy;)

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

JamesB

Using a 308Win. for moose, I'd stay away from ballistic tip type bullets. Better, I think,
to go with stouter stuff like the Nosler Partitions, Trophy Bondeds, or even the Cor-Lokt
Ultras. Use 180gr.

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

I was refering to broey1's customer

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

Just how many moose or elk have you taken with the 180gr ballistic tip?For that matter how many moose have you taken and what bullets did you use? Or is your opinion based solely on speculation.

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

SJ-- even if its speculation, would you consider the 180 BT as ideal to punch through the front shoulder of a 1500 plus pound bull and travel on, intact enough to get the heart, lungs and possibly be lucky enough to get the liver and not be stopped by then due to the run in with the front shoulders, especially at an angle?

Yep I can shoot em in the ear though if I had to and I know the BT will work there.

Point is, do you consider that bullet stout enough to take on whatever it may encounter?

Jeff

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

To start with the average moose outside of the Yukon and Alaska weighs much less than 1500lbs.1000lbs is probably a good average with 1200lbs being a large bull.Secondly,I have taken bulls weighing up to 1200 lbs with the 180gr ballistic point as well as with several other bullets.The results were very good with all bullets and the ballistic tips did penetrate much better than most people would expect them to.The reason for this is that nosler has strengthened the jackets of the 180gr-.308" ballistic tip considerably about two years ago and they do hold together quite well.I do prefer lung shots and the bullets that I did use on my moose did exit so they could not be examined.The one 180gr ballistic tip that I did recover penetrated both shoulders of a mature bull elk and then stuck in the hide.It weighed 111.7 gr for 62% weight retention or in other wortds about as much as partitions that I have recovered.So out of my total of ten elk and moose nine bullets exited,not bad at all.
So now you have some factual data to consider.It's up to you whether you decide to trust speculation over real data gained from first hand experience.The choice is yours.

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

Poor BT's have taken so much internet flack and doesn't deserve it.

But, I won't ever take my moose with em. I feel better with Partitions, or A-Frames. And now I plan on using Accubonds or Triple Shocks.

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

SJ-- I wasn't taking you on. I wanted the info you gave. I've heard they are much tougher. I didn't care for them from an initial experience years ago when BTs where first on the market. Shot a doe in the neck high with a 270 and 130. Literally only a strip of hide an inch wide held the head and body together. Not reliable for penetration.

Its good to know that the latest revamp works well. As do the accubond versions.

I love the X bullets as I rarely find one and the ones found are almost all at 100% retention expanded. Every so often a petal peels off. Stilll over 80% though.

But its sure nice to hear about real world experiences from someone that has the fortune to shoot big things all the time.
Personally I want the extra stoutness of the other bullets as I can only get up north a few times in my life. And if they walk away or face me or whatever I'll have to drive it through.

Thanks for the real world data.

Jeff

RE: Thoughts on "real" knockdown power
 

I think I read the Nosler has changed (improved) the Ballistic tip four times since it came out. The light bullets in each caliber are made for varmits or very light shinned game with the heavier ones intended for bigger game. Tghe trouble I had with them were early on and since then they have worked fine for me for deer. I have not used them for elk or moose as yet. The last moose that I took with the 308 was with Hornady 190 grain BTSP. That one went in behind one front shoulder and exited the other breaking it up pretty good. I will do some more shooting with several different bullets before the hunt. I am going to Alaska with a friend of mine who has been there many times and has a brother living up there now. I have not been up there for 38 years. I am sure this will be my last trip like this. I think its the younger guys turn for these kind of hunts.:D