Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Hey all.I'm a "silent watcher" on this forum. This is my first year hunting. I've seen guys talk about getting 1\2 " groups @ 200 yards.I just bought a Tikka 30-06 and I can't get any better than 1" @ 100 yards. Is that ok for a new shooter? I see some posts and I almost have to catch my breath. Are some of these guys full of crap or can you realy get a half " group @ 200 yards? I'll be watching. (dove tommorrow-watch out)(ain't never shot a livin thing.)

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Hello and welcome to the board. To address your question
about a 1 inch group at 100 yards being good. Yes it is! If you
can shoot that consistently your doing just fine. As far as shooting
1/2 inch groups at 200 yards?? Not too many people can do this regularly. I think some folks tend to exaggerate a bit. But it can, and is done by some very good shooters.

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RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Welcome to the board "Silent Watcher". Don't sit on the side line. Jump right in.If you're shooting 1"@100 yards you are doing fine.Allot depends on the firearm, ammunition, and the shooters skill(ability).There can be two identical rifles and both shoot differently. One might like one bullet weight and the other might want a heavier or lighter bullet.Like F4YG said 1/2"@ 200 yards is possible and done on occasions.These are usually shooters with handloads that have worked up loads for that particular rifle.These guns may have been rebarreled with a better grade. The barrels may have been glass bedded in to a high quality custom stock. Weather conditions can effect the flight of a bullet.There are so many things that can determine the accuracy. If you're getting 1" groups with an out of the box rifle you are doing well.In all makes and models you'll have tack drivers and some that could use major improvement in their accuracy. Ruger Redhawk

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RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

If you are getting 1" groups you are doing much better than average.There are hunting rifles that can consistantly shoot 1/2" groups at 100 yards but most of these have custom barrels or have much better than average factory barrels.Almost all are shooting handloads.I can not honestly say that I have seen anyone that can consistantly shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with a hunting rifle and hunting loads.I have shot groups at 100 yards that were under 1/4" but they are by far the minority as even with my custom rifles and handloads I am happy if I average 1/2" at 100 yards and around 1" at 200 yards.

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

1/2" at 200 yards, take a lot of control in breathing and noooooo caffine.if your getting 1" groups your doing Great,and have nothing to worry about.

welcome to the board,just jump in any time you feel the need.


I am not a hunter I am a whitetail population reduction specialest

remember keep your back to the sun, your knife sharp, and your powder dry.

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

You need to take some of the reported group sizes here with several large grains of salt. If you have a hunting gun that will stay around an inch at 100 then its a dang good one. When I hear someone say their gun averages 1" at 100, then I know that they are getting some groups in the 1/2" range too. Either that or they are just reporting the best three shot group they have ever shot, and calling that the "average". I think most folks base their rifles' accuracy on a couple of three shot groups that happen to be the best ever. I have met people over the years that have told me they have this and that rifle that will average .5 or .75 or something, but every time I have got one of them to sit down at the bench with me and shoot four five shot groups or six or seven three shot groups, their "average" was at least twice what they said it would be. Shooters tend to be a little proud of their rifles and too optomistic at times concerning the average group size. I heard a quote that goes, "there are three kinds of lies, regular lies, damn lies, and statistics". You should be very happy with your 1" rifle. It has been my experience that if you have a particular load that will stay inside 1", then about 80% or your shots will be landing inside 3/4" which for a hunting gun is a rare and wonderful thing.

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Luny...Welcome and congratulations on a 1" group. There are a lot of fellas that can't get that with their guns.

I deer hunt with a 270 that shoots 2" groups at 100 yards, and I am happy with that. For hunting purposes, that suits me fine. On the other hand, I have a 223 that I tinker with constantly to get smaller groups. Can I shoot a 1/2" group at 200 yards with it?? Heck no. That's unattainable for most.

I do believe there are some folks/guns that can CONSISTENTLY shoot 1/2" at 200, but I personally would have to see it to believe it. I have done it before...but the following group was probably over 2". LOL

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Most 1/2" groups at 200 yards are luck. You'll find a lot of folks tend to stretch the truth about group size. A rifle that shoots 1/4" groups at 100 yards will in theory shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yards, but conditions have to be ideal. By that I mind no wind, etc. I've shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with some of my heavy barrels and I've shot benchrest for years, but those groups aren't the norm.

Both my Tikkas will shoot 1/2" at 100 yards with select handloads, but shoot in the 1" range with better factory loads. I'd consider 1" with most factory loads as excellent from any sporter weight rifle.

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Most 1/2" groups at 200 yards are luck. You'll find a lot of folks tend to stretch the truth about group size. A rifle that shoots 1/4" groups at 100 yards will in theory shoot 1/2" groups at 200 yards, but conditions have to be ideal. By that I mind no wind, etc. I've shot 1/2" groups at 200 yards with some of my heavy barrels and I've shot benchrest for years, but those groups aren't the norm.

Both my Tikkas will shoot 1/2" at 100 yards with select handloads, but shoot in the 1" range with better factory loads. I'd consider 1" with most factory loads as excellent from any sporter weight rifle.

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Welcome to the board, and by all means don't stay silent. Your 1" gun will do you fine. When most people say that they are at 1" grps at 200 yds they are either full of it or they actually invested the time to become that good. I have an 06 with a lightweight barrel that I just can't get under 1.5" grps, while with my 307 I get between .75 and 1.25" consistantly don't make sense to me either. The quality of the gun, optics, ammunition and shooter as well as the weather all come into play with shots like that. Now shooting at paper that didn't move was fun lets put a deer that knows your out there and ...

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Welcome! I have to agree,&quot;most&quot; 1/2&quot;@200 is B.S. For a 30-06 you have a nice group...your not hunting mice are you? ...<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

Hunt Safe!

Jack

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

This also happens at the range. A few weeks back I was talking with a guy at the range. He had a truck full of ammo, custom guns ect. All he could talk about was the one rifle he had in the truck that could shoot 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards. Well I had to see it for myself, because I thought he was a little bit of a blowhard. Well guess what he could not get any better than a 2inch group. After looking at the targets I heard all the reasons why. (WIND, TRIGGER, LOAD ect.) On the other hand I have seen another guy who was shooting bullet holes at 100yards and a 4 inch group at six hundred yards. I always take what I read with a pinch of salt and move on.

***

[Deleted]
 

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RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Well, I just put another loud mouth in his place this morning. Got a guy I work with who can't do wrong on the range, (according to him). Every rifle he get, every sluggun he shoots, is always the best. This is almost impossible that every gun you get will get .5&quot; groups at 100 Yards. So we went out today with his 270, 30-06, 10/22, and knight muzzleloader. I wanted to see the guy shoot who says he can get 1&quot; groups at 100 yards with a Wolverine muzzleloader.

Well, the muzzleloader got 6&quot; groups. Not bad but I got 4&quot; groups with my LK93, which is better than I usually get with but ain't no 1&quot;. He said he gets .5&quot; group at 200 yards with his Winchester Mod 70 30-06 with 130 Coreloks factory ammo. Well today he only hit the target at 200 2 out of 5 times. And got 3&quot; groups average at 100 and one 1.2&quot;. Of course on the other groups he said it was the wind, or he pulled that shot. Lastly, was his most unbelieveable tale, which was 1&quot; groups from his 10/22 at 150 yards. I think it was his first time shooting that far with his 10/22, since he never could hit the target, and wasn't aware that a 22LR sighted in at 50Yards would drop almost 7&quot; at 100 yards.

So I broke out my trusty 270BDL, that has for years been my best gun. And with my handloads, I can get sub1&quot; groups very regularly, and clover leafed a four shot group. To achieve this regular performance, I have put a new stock on, pillar'd, free floated the barrel, glass bedded, squared the action and bolt and a new timney trigger. It has been a hard, long, expensive road to get a gun to clover leaf. But I wouldn't sell this gun for two new ones. In fact out of almost 5 or 6 new rifles I have got, only two was tack drivers. It is a rarity to pull a gun off the shelf and get 1/2 groups at 200 yards.

So if you 06 gets 1&quot; groups regularly with factory loads, hang on to that gun. And If you are ever in the MD, area, and we go to the range with that gun, and we can repeat that performance, I take that gun off your hands.

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Luny,
Welcome aboard, 1/2&quot; groups at 200 yards isn't all the rare. In Benchrest competition 1/2&quot; groups wouldn't cut it these days. I have a .222 that shoots in the mid.2's to low .3's. This is five shoots @100yards. I haven't tried shooting it at 200 (our range is only 100yds) I would seriously doubt if it would shoot consistant 1/2&quot; groups@200. The 52grain bullets will not stay on course as well as a heavier bullet. I'm working on a 6mm Bench Rest that should shoot 1/2&quot; groups @200.
As for your Tikka 1&quot; @100 is great for a big game rifle.

Rem. 222

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

..Heck i cant even see the target at two hundred yards..:)..but i still kill my deer...

..JESUS IS COMING BACK BE READY...

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

In one of the past issues of Shooting Times I think around April. Layne Simpson shot a Tikka in 7mm-08 and shot less than than 1/2&quot; at 100yds. It depends on the person and every gun shoots differently.

Why work when you can hunt???? Heck why work at all!!

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

there are at least 3 different factory loads that will shoot 1 inch or smaller groups at 200 yards consistantly in my rifle. i have shot 1/2 inch groups at 200 yards before but i wouldn't call them consistant. they happen every once in a while and i write them off as flukes. they definatly don't represend the avg group size i can shoot with my rifle.

1 inch groups at 100 yards in your rifle is more then sufficient for any hunting situation within reasonable range.

cheers

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Shooting &quot;a group&quot; that's under 1/2&quot; at 200yds and shooting &quot;groups&quot; under that are two different world. Just like you can have a &quot;flyer&quot; make your 1&quot; group into a 4&quot; group, you can have a flyer make that 2&quot; group into a 1/2&quot;. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometimes.
For the most part though, rifle groups are just theo opposite of fish, they always get smaller as the story wears on.

The guys out there that tune their guns and ammo, glue their actions into the stock, video tape their shooting posture and breathing, and log all their shots and conditions, they are the ones that can shoot under 1/2 MOA out at 500yds and beyond, adn they won't brag, they just talk and offer to help.

Christopher Bartley, AME1(AW), USN

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Hey luny2nz, 1&quot; groups at 100 yards are great for a new shooter using standard factory ammo. If you hunting deer sized game you should be good out to about 300 yards or so. 1/2&quot; groups at 200 yards are not the norm for a off the shelf factory rifle & ammo.

Good luck on the dove huntin'.

[Deleted]
 

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RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

&quot;It's easy to talk and even easier to post on the internet.&quot;

Very well put Otis.

I put no more faith in some of what I read on the forums than what I hear from the &quot;gun experts&quot; at the local gun shop.

Edited by - diyj98 on 09/02/2002 19:08:06

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

1/2 at 200....

Yea man, and you hear about my fishing trip. That fish was as big as the boat<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

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Edited by - mike bell on 09/02/2002 19:30:10

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

Luny, a 1&quot; group at 100yds ain't nothing to sneeze at...as they say down here, &quot;ya done good&quot;. And, selecting a Tikka was a smart move.

Remember to practice shooting your rife from positions and conditions similar to how you will engage the game (e.g. deer). Anyone can punch paper from a sitting position at a range benchrest, but with just a little buck fever in a 30ft tree stand or kneeling position - a 50yd target(deer) can be as challenging as a 300yd benchrest shot.

Heaven is best viewed from a deer stand at sunrise in the forest

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

luny thats really good shooting. do you handload? you will find that perfect load for your gun if your really intrested. to get to that point where your gun will consistantly out shoot you. you may go thru 5 or 6 bullets and 7-8 powders not to mention primers, sizing ,depth, and grains of powder but (patience pays) it took almost three years,and countless trips to the range,and good record keeping to make it perfect. i can usually get 1/4in 4 shot groups at 100yrds out of my 308. if i do my part....if i do my part.... if i do my part...good things happen to those who wait...............songdog

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

luny thats really good shooting. do you handload? you will find that perfect load for your gun if your really intrested. to get to that point where your gun will consistantly out shoot you. you may go thru 5 or 6 bullets and 7-8 powders not to mention primers, sizing ,depth, and grains of powder but (patience pays) it took almost three years,and countless trips to the range,and good record keeping to make it perfect. i can usually get 1/4in 4 shot groups at 100yrds out of my 308. if i do my part....if i do my part.... if i do my part...good things happen to those who wait...............songdog PS hard to see at 200 so i just take the rest for granted besides a deer`s heart is as big as your fist

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

for some odd reason i can;t group on paper worth a damm, but i can hit almost anything i shoot at the first time, so i;m content.
perfect example, my rem 740woodsmaster ought six with a lyman 4x post reticle scope, at 150yds, i can hit a standin clay pidgeon til the cows come home but if you stick up a target i;m lookin at 4-5 inch groups, don;t matter much to me, i got confidence in the gun, and its the first shot thats the money shot anyways, just got a sweet sporterized springfield, haven;t shot it but hopefully i can do the same or better,

hmm maybe i;ll try smaller stuff next time like lolipops stuck in the ground

&quot;smile, life could be worse.. i could be datin your daughter.&quot;

RE: Whats bragging and whats real?
 

You guys are great. Lots of good stuff. Thanks. The 1&quot; group was my best. With my rifle resting on a sandbag. How can you practice &quot;feild&quot; shooting? Take a walk in the woods,and try and hit somthing off the cuff? I have a cabin at Bucks Lake here in N.CA.I thought about taking off and setting up some paper plates in a few places,and walking around taking random shots.I had a muzzle break put on my 06,becouse my shoulder was getting sore. It helped quite a bit with recoil. Loud as heck,though. I'm starting to look forward to get on this site when I get home. My wife jokes about her being a computer&quot;widow&quot; And with my obsesing about going hunting---As far as my first dove hunt-I had fun, but I'm getting tired of all the &quot;broad side of the barn&quot; jokes. (lol)

Edited by - luny2nz on 09/05/2002 02:40:08