Question for the experts
 

First off, I'm new to the site and I must say that this is a great site. I am sort of in a dilema here. I am currently looking for a new rifle that will allow me to hunt both deer and large game out midwest, ex. elk,moose,etc.. It's been a long time since I have really looked at guns or shopped for one. I have recently looked at a few, like 7mm, 7mm Mag, 300 Win Mag, 300 WSM, and 308. I wanted to get some opinions as to what would be the best caliber for hunting both. I would like something with enough knockdown power from a long distance but at the same time not to dislocate my shoulder either (not much recoil). Also weight would be an issue, I would rather have something lighter than heavy too. I have always had wood stocks but really don't know much about the synthetic stocks either. I am having a difficult time deciding what would be best, especially with all the different manufacturers to choose from and such. Please help out an ol' southern boy here.
If you have any suggestions on scopes as well, please let me know as to what I should look for or what you recommend too.

Again, thank you for your time.

RE: Question for the experts
 

What's your budget?

RE: Question for the experts
 

OK... I have to put my 2 cents in... First off I do not claim to be an expert on ballistics, but I would consider a 30-06. I consider myslef to be a wimp when it comes to recoil, but I can handle it. You can get ammo cheap and easy, and the caliber is available my most gun manufacturers. The other ones you listed should work well.

As for the gun... That is tough, there are so many good options out there. A couple of things...

Synthetic stocks are considered optimal where climate variabilty is a concern... I don't think this is a big concern, especially if you get a decent wood stocked gun that is free-floated or pillar-bedded. Even without that you are really talking about minimal accuracy differences. I personally like wood. Synthetic stocks tend to be lighter and some are furnished with stainless steel barrels which are more rugged than blued. However a lighter gun is going to kick more (simple laws of physics).

If you are trying to be budget conscious, look at Tikka, CZ and Savage, these manufacturers make great guns and by most people are considered the best bang for the buck.

You will here a lot of Remington 700 talk... These are fine guns, I just personally think the new ones need a little tinkering to be worth their weight. You will almost certainly have to adjust your trigger out of the box.

If you are looking at throwing a little more money around look at Kimber and Sako, I definately think you get what you pay for in these guns. Fit, finish, feel, accuracy is worth the grand.

Scopes again come down to budget...

Cheapies but goodies = Simmons Aetec and Bushnell Elite

middle of the road values = Weaver grandslam, Sightron, Burris Fullfield

Top of the line (but not Swavorski) = Leupold VX-III, Nikon Monarch, Zeiss Conquest

Good luck with whatever you choose!

RE: Question for the experts
 

8mm/06 - As far as how much I would like to spend on the rifle, hmmm. hard to say. I would be willing to spend the money if it comes down durability,quality,and not having to do alot of tweaking to it. I would like to have a good quality and reliable rifle for these needs for the long haul.

newguy23 - Thanks for the reply. I forgot about the 30-06, which I have considered. The recoil is not gonna necessarily kill me but it would be nice to have something that wouldn't recoil bad. It's just I don't know enough about the higher calibers b/c I never shot or owned one either. I'll check out the rifle manufacturers you listed too. As for the Rem. 700 models, are there issues with the trigger out of box? If so, what would you recommend for it.

Thanks again!!

RE: Question for the experts
 

i would look into the 280 myself. remington makes the mountain rifle in this caliber. it is a lighter gun and has a wood stock to boot. this is a VERY good gun don't let guys kid you the remington 700's are still fine works of rifle. you just might have to put a trigger on it. such as the timmy trigger. the 280 will kill all the animals you mentioned and then some. the recoil isn't very much "i think it is less then the 06 even" if you handload this round becomes even better! however you can find good factory ammo for it.

for a scope... well it is better to go cheap on the rifle then the scope. you can't shoot tiny groups or kill animals if your scope dosen't hold zero. a leupold scope will last you forever and is very clear. you can spend more and get the zeiss which is slightly better. i think i will be buying a zeiss pretty soon myself.

a remington modle 700 mountain DM in 280 around $500-$600 and leupold 3-9x40 var x2 around $250 would give you a nice rifle that will kill any north american game animal

RE: Question for the experts
 

I have for many years, held a dealer FFL, which enables me to buy rifles, shoot'em, and if I do not like them, move them along. The benefit is that I have been able to own a shoot many models and calibers. I am very pleased with the Winchester Ultimate Shadow in 7mmWSM. The rifle is ligher then many other magnums. The stock has a lot of good features, like gripping surfaces that are little affected by being wet, and the stock is indestructable. The recoil is no heavier then a 30-06, but you can launch a 7mm bullet at a much higher MV, which translates into flatter trajectory. The 7mmWSM will do anything that the longer, belted 7mmRemMag will do, in a lighter, shorter package. This rifle/cartridge combo is capable of taking any game up to and including elk and moose. The long range capability makes it an excellent pronghorn rifle as well. Best cartridge/rifle combo that I have run across in many years.

RE: Question for the experts
 

Exactly... I don't want to spend a bunch on a gun and then have to replace the trigger right away. I am lazy... Why not by the Savage with an already great trigger?

Anyway for the scope I would not suggest the VX-II, it doesn't have fully multi-coated lenses, in that price range look at the Sightron or Weaver, Also consider getting the VX-III, Well worth it... It is the scope all others should be compared to and has been for a while.

If I had to pick a gun/Scope Combo for around $750 I would go with...

Savage ($500-$550) with a Weaver Grand Slam 3x10(>$250)

If you want to spend a lot more...

Go with a Kimber 84 Classic ($900) with a Leupold VX-III ($500)

-That would be a rig most of us would envy!

RE: Question for the experts
 

The Winchester Black Shadow is a good buy. I have not looked at the Ultimate Shadow but I am sure its a fine rifle. The Remington is also a fine rifle and one of the easiest to adjust the trigger on if indeed it even needs adjusting. Going along with some of the others here, if it were for me I would pick the 280 Remington or 30-06. Either in a Remington 700 or Savage with accu-trigger. However since its not for me and You might prefer a little more range, I would go with the Super Shadow and would consider no caliber except the 300 WSW. I would top it with a Simmons 2x10 Aetec scope. You would have a tough time beating that combo for anywhere near the money. Another good choice would be the Weatherby Vanguard I think it called. Again good price and good quality. IMO!

RE: Question for the experts
 

If you like the Weathreby Vangaurd, look at Howa. Same gun but since you aren't paying for the Weatherby name usually a little less expensive. I'll cast another vote for .30-06 on the flip side though if I didn't have anything in the rack and starting from scratch I might just give the .300 WSM a look. I doubt it kicks more than an equal .30-06 and it will gain a little fps. I've fired a .300 WM and it was a little more than my "06" and I'm basing my opinion on the fact that the WSM is supposed to kick less.

RE: Question for the experts
 

If I didnt have a rifle and was gonna buy one for hunting any north american game i would go with a ruger m77 in 300 win mag! Good reliable gun, good reliable caliber.

RE: Question for the experts
 

I would purchase a Winchester Model 70 Classic Sporter LT in .300 Win. Mag., and a Zeiss Conquest 3.5-10x44 MC. Good luck.

RE: Question for the experts
 

First off the 700 trigger is stiff OofB but that doesn't mean it requires a comp trigger like a timney for most hunters! If your at all enclined with guns it can be adjusted downward to a very crisp hunting trigger within a few minutes. If you would rather not tackle this job a good gunsmith will do it quickly and inexpensively for a simple adjustment of sheer, pull and travel. If you want it polished then it will cost you a bit more. By the way I haven't found a of the shelf rifle that didn't require trigger adjustment to my liking, some can be done by myself easily and others require a professional. All I am saying is don't let the trigger adjusting bother you to much, you'll find guys with every brand paying for this to be done on a daily basis.

As to which rifle only the man or woman holding it can make that choice. Buy fit, features and what you want. Cartridge chambering same thing many will do the job, so buy what fits your situation, you can handle and really want.

Scope and rings to me are a part of the equation few consider when laying out a budget. Simply put don't spend the farm on the gun and skimp on what often makes a difference in the field..buy as much scope as you can. Personally after much comparing and research I bought my first Zeiss Conquest. I am so impressed I just mounted my second one in lieu of my 4200 elite.

Newguy - the 04 VX II has the same coatings as the previous Vari X III, so yes it is now fully multi coated. Not an endorsement for this product in anyway just FYI.

Get out do some touching and pick the one that just won't let you put it down.

Good luck.

RE: Question for the experts
 

According to Natchezs the VX-II has the same coating, not on all the lenses... It is "multi-coated" (multi-4 coat), but it does not say anywhere that it is "fully multi-coated" meaning on all of it's lenses... I am pretty sure it is not fully multicoated.

RE: Question for the experts
 

I asked the same question about Leupolds (Differences between the 03 and 04 models). This is the response I received from Leupold. I cut and paste this out of thier email to me.

"The big difference between the '03 model and the 04 VX-II is that in '03 only the outer lens surfaces were multi-coated. Now all the lens surfaces throughout are Multi-Coat 4. This results in a little more brightness."

RE: Question for the experts
 

My choice would have to be a quality, light weight rifle. It would be comfortable to shoot off a bench, but balance well off hand. The gun must shoot minute-of-bambi, and I must have complete confidence in the cartridge. If I had the money to spend, it would be a Weatherby MKV UltraLight in .270 Winchester. If I did not have the extra cash, I would look for a Browning A-Bolt in the same calibre. Perhaps a 30-06. Both will kill out to 300, (My max on game) and capable of target shooting out to 500 yards, and beyond. The .270 is easy on the shoulder, and with a quality pad like a decelerator, you won't mind the recoil a bit. A 130 grain Partition will kill any elk or moose, and be flat enough with a 200 yard zero, to hold dead on the vitals, and be confident of a hit out to my range. Good luck.

RE: Question for the experts
 

I wouldn't call my self an "expert", but i have shot more than my share of big game, includeing moose, deer, caribou, brown bears, ect....

When you included moose, and longer ranges, it made me skip oner the 280, 270, 308 ect... In a non magnum, the 30-06 is the one i'd pick!! Others have stated how easy ammo is to get ect..

In a magnum, i'd pick the 7mm Rem. mag over all others. The reason is, it has lighter recoil by quite a bit over the 300 mags, and is more than enough gun for anything in the U.S.

The big thing is, you HAVE to pick the loads with the "proper bullet" for your intended use!! The 7 mag will flatten a brown bear with 175 Nosler partitions, as will the 30-06 with 200 grain NP's... How do i know this?? I've done it or seen it done more than once.

Anyway, for everything up to and includeing moose, they would be my picks.

The pict. is one of three bull caribou i shot that day with my Valmet 412 combi gun in 12 ga-30-06.

Drilling Man

RE: Question for the experts
 

opfor, I might as well throw my $.02 worth in this mix. From the list you gave, I'd vote for the 7mm Mag. I'd buy it in a Remington 700 with a synthetic stock. I'd disagree with the writer who said to replace the trigger. IMHO, Remington has one of the best factory triggers out there. They may come from the factory alittle stiff, but they are easily adjusted, and they will hold their adjustments very well. As far as the stock, I think you'll find that the synthetic, aside from the obvious weather advantage, will eat up some of the recoil. The 7mmMag round, IMO, can be one of the most versatile rounds out there today and able to harvest most anything you care to hunt, shy of the most dangerous game. In addition, compared to the new 'short mags', you won't have problems finding ammo most anywhere you are in this country, should you have a need. I'm not a big fan of the Ruger mainly because of the intrigal scope mounts. I have a hard time spending $70 for a set of quality scope rings. Anyway, that's my nickles worth. Good luck.

RE: Question for the experts
 

Newguy, your right nowhere does it say fully multi coated but it does say the lens Multicoat 4 used on the 04' VXII was previously only found on the Vari X III line which was/is fully multi coated on all lense surfaces. Basically the NEW VXII is the old Vari X III optically minus the 1 piece tube construction.

RE: Question for the experts
 

Thanks for everyones input. I had really not thought about the 30-06 but makes since with all the grain selection you have to choose from. I think I might lean toward this, based on the this feature, which makes it an all around hunting rifle for various game. On the scopes, I will take your advice and look at the ones you have mentioned. Now I just have to go out looking at various manufacturers and see what feels right to me. Again, thanks everyone... you all have been a great help.

RE: Question for the experts
 

Let us know how you make out!!! Enjoy whatever rifle/scope you get... I think we all have our preferences. I thin you can't go wrong with really any rifle out there from the major brands, the gap in quality isn't what it used to be. The same goes for scopes, the major difference in prices there is probably reputation and customer support. In other words pick the one you like, you will never regret making a decision on your own merits. By the way I think your right about the 30-06.