Remmington 700's
02-17-2002, 05:30 PM
#51
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: Remmington 700's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I've gotta make a few corrections about my statements on Remingtons. Got to talk to the gunsmith in question without having to shout over the counter and with his lathe or mill running. The MISSING PARTS were absent from 870's. What was criticaly wrong with the 700's is not that some were "short chambered" but they were not FINISHED REAMED. I didn't think I heard him right the first time I re-inquired about the details.
This otta sum it up: <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
How many did this happen to? 1 out of every 10? 100? 1000? 1000000? Or did your friend the gunsmith hear about a rifle from a friend of a friend and combine the story with his dislike of the fact that Walmart can sell more guns at a cheaper price? How does living 30 miles from Walmart make you an expert on what goes on behind the scene at Walmart?
You sound alot like my father-in-law who exaggerates every bit of negative hearsay and conspiracy theory about Walmart because he manages a small variety store and hates Walmart.
This otta sum it up: <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
How many did this happen to? 1 out of every 10? 100? 1000? 1000000? Or did your friend the gunsmith hear about a rifle from a friend of a friend and combine the story with his dislike of the fact that Walmart can sell more guns at a cheaper price? How does living 30 miles from Walmart make you an expert on what goes on behind the scene at Walmart?
You sound alot like my father-in-law who exaggerates every bit of negative hearsay and conspiracy theory about Walmart because he manages a small variety store and hates Walmart.
02-17-2002, 09:30 PM
#52
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fayetteville Arkansas USA
Posts: 319
RE: Remmington 700's
Briman, I don't appreciate being called a liar. I guess you just can't handle the truth that the firearms industry is sadly becoming like every other one in this country. This is not made up, and those guns, with the missing parts, the gunsmith saw with his own eyes because they were brought to him by WAL-MART!!! At the time he was the only smith in the immediate area that carried liability insurance, thats why they brought them to him. They were PO'ed at Remington and needed them fixed in a hurry. They also asked him about working under contract for them but he said he was floored when they told him the potential volume. He like's doing custom work better, so turned the down on the contract deal. If your trying to discredit what I've said why don't you at least take the damn time to read all of what I've said. Ok I'll tell you why the distance is important dufus, there have been people that come into that shop that have worked or do work at WAL-MART's HQ as either buyers or vendors to them. That's how I know!!! It's really a small world out there if you'd pull your head out of that hole it's stuck in and look past your nose!!! Or DO YOU??? Work for Wal-Mart as some sort of manager or own alot of stock in the company???
If you guys can't appreciate a little inside info that may save you some money and grief; I guess I won't bother posting it here. If I get some more, RELIABLE info about any other gun.<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
"Ya want the truth! Ya can't handle the truth!"<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - BigEd on 02/17/2002 22:38:38
If you guys can't appreciate a little inside info that may save you some money and grief; I guess I won't bother posting it here. If I get some more, RELIABLE info about any other gun.<img src=icon_smile_sad.gif border=0 align=middle>
"Ya want the truth! Ya can't handle the truth!"<img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>
Edited by - BigEd on 02/17/2002 22:38:38
02-17-2002, 09:51 PM
#53
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: Remmington 700's
Boy we are sensitive aren't we now?
I still don't believe you though, If there were a problem with these new rifles with missing parts, wouldn't it make more sense to send them back to the manufacturer for replacement or repairs that to hire a gunsmith for the repairs?? Besides, most gunsmiths I know would gladly charge whatever their shop fee is to do a simple replacement on a production piece, and most of them aren't busy enough to turn down extra work- especially if its easy work.
If you want the truth- You are full of hot air.
I still don't believe you though, If there were a problem with these new rifles with missing parts, wouldn't it make more sense to send them back to the manufacturer for replacement or repairs that to hire a gunsmith for the repairs?? Besides, most gunsmiths I know would gladly charge whatever their shop fee is to do a simple replacement on a production piece, and most of them aren't busy enough to turn down extra work- especially if its easy work.
If you want the truth- You are full of hot air.
02-18-2002, 12:51 AM
#55
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fayetteville Arkansas USA
Posts: 319
RE: Remmington 700's
My last post was just an example, in turn around, of how my comments on this topic have been treated. So far I have been accused of having it in for Walmart and Remington, to working for Winchester. At least I HAVE corrected any errors I have made by taking my TIME to go and ask the ORIGINAL source. I have not changed what I have said several times either, as YOU have implied, it has only been ONCE when I made the correction about which guns had the missing parts. Which SOMEBODY didn't get right in their last post, I said it turned out to be missing parts in the 870 SHOTGUN not a rifle, but I guess this means I changed my story, because somebody didn't read it right?? If you don't think Remington is beyond cutting corners look at the 710 and remember the Viper .22??? If I was making this stuff up why would I bother to correct myself and cut my own throat?
I do not have it in for Wal-Mart. I have it in for the drop in quality of everthing being made today. For example this computer I'm using now is the 3rd one I've had since buying the original last December both others replaced under warranty, both with bad modems. You think the firearms industry is immune to this?? You don't like knowing what is behind the low prices you get at Wal-Mart or how some gun companies fill these orders? This is daily business for ALL big retailers and their suppliers, not just the gun industry. It's gonna get worse if more gun manufacturer's get bought by bigger corporations! That has been my basic argument. I also have not implied ALL guns shipped to Wal-Mart stores are junk, just that I would very hesitant to buy one of their speacial low priced ones made exclusivly for them. I should have went into better detail right off the bat, would have saved alot of time rehashing so everyone could follow my argument easier, but might have been nearly as long as this one.
As for this gunsmith I mentioned turning down work. Why take on more; when he has more than enough? I've known him to have nearly a 6 month back-log. Now he will only do general repair on what he sells to keep it at a resonable time. He has this amount of work because of the reputation for integrity he has built up in over 25 years of business. If you are so interested in the return rate for Remington why don't you ask for those statistics from them and a few other gun companies for comparison? I'm sure they all will be happy to let those figures out.
In screening down to check what I have said. I noticed NDTerminator's comment, hmm 2 bad guns, one person. Wish I knew what makes and models he had trouble with. Quilly dosen't sound plesased either. I konw just 2 examples.
Now lets look at your stands on the subject for a change. Wal-Mart and Remington, 2 typical All-American corporations, would never sacrifice quality for profit. And one of you has family working at Remington, I'm sure if the top executives made a bad business decision 2 production workers would have a big impact on OVERALL quality of a specific model. Now who is really blowing smoke?
I don't know what else to say on this one, I REALLY hope this is the last time I have to touch this one. Maybe we need a sporting goods marketing/economics forum.<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
I do not have it in for Wal-Mart. I have it in for the drop in quality of everthing being made today. For example this computer I'm using now is the 3rd one I've had since buying the original last December both others replaced under warranty, both with bad modems. You think the firearms industry is immune to this?? You don't like knowing what is behind the low prices you get at Wal-Mart or how some gun companies fill these orders? This is daily business for ALL big retailers and their suppliers, not just the gun industry. It's gonna get worse if more gun manufacturer's get bought by bigger corporations! That has been my basic argument. I also have not implied ALL guns shipped to Wal-Mart stores are junk, just that I would very hesitant to buy one of their speacial low priced ones made exclusivly for them. I should have went into better detail right off the bat, would have saved alot of time rehashing so everyone could follow my argument easier, but might have been nearly as long as this one.
As for this gunsmith I mentioned turning down work. Why take on more; when he has more than enough? I've known him to have nearly a 6 month back-log. Now he will only do general repair on what he sells to keep it at a resonable time. He has this amount of work because of the reputation for integrity he has built up in over 25 years of business. If you are so interested in the return rate for Remington why don't you ask for those statistics from them and a few other gun companies for comparison? I'm sure they all will be happy to let those figures out.
In screening down to check what I have said. I noticed NDTerminator's comment, hmm 2 bad guns, one person. Wish I knew what makes and models he had trouble with. Quilly dosen't sound plesased either. I konw just 2 examples.
Now lets look at your stands on the subject for a change. Wal-Mart and Remington, 2 typical All-American corporations, would never sacrifice quality for profit. And one of you has family working at Remington, I'm sure if the top executives made a bad business decision 2 production workers would have a big impact on OVERALL quality of a specific model. Now who is really blowing smoke?
I don't know what else to say on this one, I REALLY hope this is the last time I have to touch this one. Maybe we need a sporting goods marketing/economics forum.<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
02-18-2002, 06:41 AM
#56
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: Remmington 700's
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The MISSING PARTS were absent from 870's <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
My reading comprehension skills tell me that this staement means that 870's have no missing parts.
After giving it some real critical thought, I can uderstand why you hear of so many defective rifles in your neck of the woods. It kind of reminds me of a math problem where you have to estimate how many piano tuners there are in Chicago. If remington's quality control allows 1 defective piece out of every 10,000 to slip through, the avergae gun owner or small gun shop owner may never see one. If walmart sells 500,000 guns a year they will probably see 50. The difference is that from what I gather from your statements, is that walmart probably sends all of their defects back to their headquarters, which makes it look a considerable number of defects to local populations. A small business owner doesn't have a large headquarters to send their defects back to, so they probably just send the rare defect back to the manufacturer. This is why you would get few complaints from small business owners because they rarely see a bad rifle. Statistically, they will get the same percentage of bad pieces as a large chainstore. I'll take back some of my previous comments about doubting the validity of you or your gunsmith about defects from Walmart stores, BUT to say that Walmart gets a higher ratio of poorly made guns than a small business would still be wrong.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you don't think Remington is beyond cutting corners look at the 710 and remember the Viper .22??? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Yes, and add the 597 to that list also.
My reading comprehension skills tell me that this staement means that 870's have no missing parts.
After giving it some real critical thought, I can uderstand why you hear of so many defective rifles in your neck of the woods. It kind of reminds me of a math problem where you have to estimate how many piano tuners there are in Chicago. If remington's quality control allows 1 defective piece out of every 10,000 to slip through, the avergae gun owner or small gun shop owner may never see one. If walmart sells 500,000 guns a year they will probably see 50. The difference is that from what I gather from your statements, is that walmart probably sends all of their defects back to their headquarters, which makes it look a considerable number of defects to local populations. A small business owner doesn't have a large headquarters to send their defects back to, so they probably just send the rare defect back to the manufacturer. This is why you would get few complaints from small business owners because they rarely see a bad rifle. Statistically, they will get the same percentage of bad pieces as a large chainstore. I'll take back some of my previous comments about doubting the validity of you or your gunsmith about defects from Walmart stores, BUT to say that Walmart gets a higher ratio of poorly made guns than a small business would still be wrong.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you don't think Remington is beyond cutting corners look at the 710 and remember the Viper .22??? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Yes, and add the 597 to that list also.
02-19-2002, 07:42 PM
#57
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fayetteville Arkansas USA
Posts: 319
RE: Remmington 700's
Briman, I'm sorry if I got a bit hot under the collar on my next to last post, all I'm trying to do is to keep some fellow shooter from getting stung on a gun buy. If you remember my post on the topic concerning bad gun purchases you'd know why.
As far as statistics go I wish there was a way to compare. But I don't think the gun industry or Wal-Mart will release these on returns for repair of defective guns. But I might do some digging and post any replies I get from either.
I still wonder why Wal-Mart will no longer take returns on firearms. When they do on other items of equal value; within a reasonable amount of time or at least help return the firearm to the manufacturer for repair as a service to their customer.
I would also like to hear some details from NDTerminator about what make/models he bought, I got an idea for a new topic(Deffective NEW Firearms) might give us some idea while I do some digging on the return rate.
As far as statistics go I wish there was a way to compare. But I don't think the gun industry or Wal-Mart will release these on returns for repair of defective guns. But I might do some digging and post any replies I get from either.
I still wonder why Wal-Mart will no longer take returns on firearms. When they do on other items of equal value; within a reasonable amount of time or at least help return the firearm to the manufacturer for repair as a service to their customer.
I would also like to hear some details from NDTerminator about what make/models he bought, I got an idea for a new topic(Deffective NEW Firearms) might give us some idea while I do some digging on the return rate.