is 223 safe for deer
 

i was wondering if 223 is safe for deer
i am thinking about getting either a 223 or a 243
which one do u think i should get
i will be using it for crows deer coyotes fox and a little racoon
any help would be greatly appreciated


take em

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

First of all check your states regulations. Probably a 223 is not legal for deer.Most states if not all have a min.caliber size. The 223 would do it with a experience hunter. Do I recommend it? No.I think a 243 is light for deer but many do use them.For the small game you mentioned the 223 would be fine.For deer do them a favor and use a caliber suited for deer size game. I like the 270 Win for whitetails.The main thing is shot placement no matter what caliber you use.You owe to the game to make the most humane kills possible.
Ruger Redhawk

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

I would go with the .243 for sure--it's a great round for both deer and varmints. Plus the .223 really isn't the best caliber for deer, although it can be used with good ammo and proper shot placement. Here in Virginia it's illegal to use any .22 caliber rifle cartridge for deer, though. Believe me, you can't go wrong with a .243!

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

In the state where I hunt the 223 is a legal caliber. With precise shot placement it will do the job but I would look to a 25 caliber to get a really good dual purpose deer/varmit rifle. Although I used a 243 for deer quite a bit, IMO its best used for all size Varmits. For this it is hard to beat. A 25-06 would be ideal.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Here in Ky, any centerfire caliber is legal. But, we as responsible sportsmen, owe too much respect to the game we chase to use a marginal caliber. In a perfect-shot situation, the 223 will do the job, but we know that a perfect broad- side shot is not always the case. Go with the 243. It makes a great dual-purpose rifle for deer and varmints.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

There is no good reason to shoot deer with a 223 Rem or any other 22 caliber round.

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RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

.243 Win. Good luck.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Since you'll be buying a gun anyway, do the deer a favor and get a real deer caliber of at least .243 on up!

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Go with the 243 i shot alot of deer with it it is a great gun

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Ask the deer and they would probably say no!:D

While i like playing with a 223 i won't deer hunt with one. it would work . but i have many other more worthy calibers in my toy box that are at my disposal.

go a little bigger.;)

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

I whole heartedly agree with the majority. Of the two calibers mentioned....if deer are on the menu....get the .243 Winchester. A .223 will kill deer when everything is "right".....but the .243 is much more "responsible". (And many consider the .243 the "bottom rung"......so to speak.)

The .243 doesn't allow for careless bullet placement either....but it provides a significant advantage over the .223 on deer sized game. The .243 in addition to working well for deer....is a great varminter as well. I think you'd be well pleased with it!

Best of luck with your purchase.

Dave

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Sure with the right bullet and right shooter, its safe and ethical. Drop them like anything else. But I mean no offense here. If you have to ask "is it safe", you might not have enough experience to be the right shooter. You might, I don't know you. I am just evaluating you by your question. I would definatly look at a .243 or a 25-06. Plenty ammo available made for deer and plenty for varmits.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

go with the 243 ; I have used them for years and they work good,the 223 is just a tad to small.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Believe it or not, here in Maine you can legally use .22 rimfire Magnum and bigger. Any centerfire round. I have killed deer with the .223, it worked fine. I also use the 243 with great results.

I would recommend the .243.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

To choose from the choices you list I would definitely go with the 243 Winchester. Using 100gr. loads it is adequate for deer if you take broadside shots and limit your range to your abilities. There is no substitution for shot placement. Once you buy a firearm practice with it until you can consistenly keep your shots on target.

I would opt for a larger caliber with more killing power. If you are recoil sensitive go with the 260, 7MM-08, or 25-06. Of these I most like the 25-06. The recoil is easy to handle and it's a superb deer caliber. You cannot go wrong with the 25-06 and 115 gr. Partition. This load is available from Federal.

If you do go with the 243 Federal also has a 100 gr. Partition available for this caliber. I would choose this as your deer load if you get decent accuracy out of it. I would stay away from the factory Ballistic Tip offerings in this caliber.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

To be honest, any gun will kill a deer with the proper shot placement. The real question I are yu a marksman sho can achieve that shot placement every time? No! The next question you should ask is it morally ethical to wound a deer and not offer a clean kill. No. Now I am not saying this to rile you up. I personally know only one person that is a skilled marksman, and I know quite a few military personel and police officers. This guy was born with a rifle in his hands and is the best shooter that I've ever seen in person. He is also an anomolly, there are only a few people out there like him.

If you answer no to both questions, and if you are honest with yourslef you will answer no to both of them, then you should consider a larger caliber than a .223. A .243 is a good all around caliber, but I think that a .25-06 is even better. That is the caliber that I would highly recommend to you to get. It is a great varmint gun and a great deer rifle. It will offer a clean kill on all of the animals you have mentioned.

Good luck!
Matt

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

i'm kind of short on money so i can't spend a ton on a gun
i'm pretty sure i'm going to buy a .243 Handi-Rifle
i'm a pretty good shot with a rifle and i will be taking close shots (under 200 yards)
thanks for all the info

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

243 for coyotes and deer the wind will affect your bulllet more on the 223 so 243

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Kyhunts, I am not sure you have to be Dave Tubbs to kill with a 223 effectively. I mean if you shoot them in broadsided thru the lungs, you should be able to recover the animal with a 223, with a 243, or a 30-06.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

The Inuits hunt, shoot, and kill Polar Bear with .222 and .223 Remington....but I sure wouldn't!;)

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

There have been people who fell several thousand feet and survived, but I wouldn't try that either.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

bigcountry said it well.

When I carry my .223 while deer hunting, I pass up on some shots. If that bothers me, I go home and get something larger to carry. It's pretty simple.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Hey akbound,

I was once up near Atric Village (Alaska) looking through my binocks at the nativies shooting into a heard of caribou with 223's.. (mini 14's) They "machine guned" into the heard as long as they could see them, all while chaseing them with a forestry track vechile!!!!!! Then only to go pull out JUST THE DEAD OR DIEING ones!!!!! I saw several "humped up ones" that were obviously wounded go off out of sight, and i never saw them go after them either.

That evening they took the dead ones to there air port to be flown to Venintie and i had a chance to look them over better.

After liveing 25 years in Alaska and seeing sh** like that, i don't think much of "anything" the natives do out in the bush!!!!!

Drilling Man

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Isn't funny how people take things so personally that they overlook the point being made. I was in now way shape or form degrading or putting anyone down for using a .223, the point I was trying to make was that a larger bullet is more forgiving than a smaller bullet. Not every hunter will take the time to set up a perfect shot every time out. So, a larger bullet will enable them to make a safer ane cleaner kill than the smaller .223. That is all I was saying and I apologize if I offended anyone by my earlier post. That certainly was not my intention.

Matt

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Ky, I for one don't think that you have anything to appologize for!
If its legal to use the .22's, you are hunting legal! That is about the best that I can say for the use of any .22 for big game hunting!
The place to test your guns and show off your accuracy, is at the range, not in the hunting field!
And to advise anyone who is buying a gun for deer, to buy any .22 is totally irresponsible! Especially when you know nothing of their shooting ability!
They should be incouraged to get an adequate caliber, practice, and shoot for the big target, not the head!

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

So JagMagMan, should we be encouraging you to get an adequate caliber, practice, and shoot for the big target

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Hi DM,

That is the end result in having a class of "citizens with SUPER rights".....because we as a society still feel guilty for the sins of what happened in this country generations, and/or centuries ago. (The myth of "noble savage"...is mostly that....a myth).

As I said in my post.....I wouldn't do it! But to get right down to it.....go read Teddy Roosevelt's accounts of hunting as practiced by sportsmen....a century or more ago. There are many accounts of shooting at dangerous game....and herds of game......400, 500, 600 yards and more, (frequently with wounded game not recovered). So it hasn't always been just one particular group of people that are "haphazard" in their approach to shooting on live animals. (As a matter of fact......reread some of the post from this site......over the last six months! There are many, many, many, accounts of people taking shots at "live animals" at ranges that has at best to be considered......"chancey". And at worst unsportsman like.)

But to get back to my original point. You can kill deer with a .223. But "only" experienced, patient, and extremely ethical people should do it! Because without the application of all of those traits......the .223 is not a "great" deer cartridge!

Most of us know that nearly anything is "possible" under good conditions....but it makes life so much easier if we don't always put so many restrictions on us. Particularly newer hunters......that might "feel the need to ask.....if it is sufficient! So when they ask for advice in that regard.....we'd do well to consider the possible inexperience prior to recommending an "experts" tool. We do both the beginner.....and the game animal....a disservice!

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Bigcountry, what encouraging would I need? I use a .308 or 7MM RM!
A little overkill, but you can't kill 'em too dead! I also go for the best target possible, heart/lung shot!
You won't see me recommending any .22 or head shots either! As I said, the very BEST that I can say about the .22's is IF its legal, then you are legal!
You could drive a railroad spike with a claw hammer, but you could drive it better with a sledge hammer!

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

I am not sure what encouraging you will need. In other words are you so good, that you don't need to be encouraged. Are you the best of the best. I mean your the guy who said

"The place to test your guns and show off your accuracy, is at the range, not in the hunting field!
And to advise anyone who is buying a gun for deer, to buy any .22 is totally irresponsible! Especially when you know nothing of their shooting ability!
They should be incouraged to get an adequate caliber, practice, and shoot for the big target, not the head!"

I mean the way you wrote this, that you are elite and don't need any encouragement but poor little "take-em" does. Take em might be 10 times the shooter you are or me for all we know. Thats the reason I said to him, " I don't know you or your abilities" Some might think you need encouragement to change your ways of using a 7RM to a .243 and need some encouragement. Some might think its too small and you should use 45/70's only. I can't see any post about head shots or encouraging him to take head shots. Or really encouraging him to get a 223 for hunting. I see people do it. I have never did it. But they down more deer than me. Who am I to judge them. Or you or "take-em".

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

One thing you must keep in mind: In most states, the .223rem isn't legal for deer, so you should dually take notice...i.e. make sure it's legal in the state you'll be hunting in...and secondly, MOST people have never used a .223rem for deer because it isn't legal for them...they have no actual experience with the .223 on deer, maybe they've used one on coyotes and varmints, but never deer.

I've never used a .223rem for deer either, but I have used the .22-250, which is quite close in performance to the .223, slightly improved, but close enough for this arguement. Most guns that guys choose in the .223, AR-15s or Heavy bbl bolt guns, are quite accurate, so placing your shot well is easier than say with a standard bbl bolt .30-06, especially moreso than a leveraction .30-30!!! When I hunted a .22-250, I had it in my head that I'd limit my shots to under 150yrds, which is reasonable, it doesn't cut a hunt unrealistically short, but it doesn't ask too much of the round, at that range, I could have shot the deer through the eye off my bipod. Don't make the mistake of using varmint grade bullets on big game, lots of guys hate the 22CF's for losing them deer because they used the wrong bullet.

I hunted deer in TX with a .22-250 Heavy bbl Savage bolt gun, Handloaded ammo with heavy bullets, I can't recall but it seems like they were 75grns even, they were jacketed soft point partitions with bonded core, boat tails...they worked fine, like I said, I cut my range at 150yrds, my actual shots were 68yrds, 44yrds, and 91yrds, the 44yrd and 91yrd deer dropped in a few steps, the 68yrd deer ran about 40-45yrds before collapsing.

The .243win is a better choice by far, I used one for 4-5yrs as a secondary to my .30-06, used it for my second deer of the season after filling my first tag with my .30-06...I really liked it, it's performance was great, recoil and report are low, it was impressively flat shooting and accurate, and the number one thing: it did the job.

If you want it for varmints too, then consider the .243WSSM, it's a considerable upgrade to the .243Win, a goodly bit faster, so it has the flat trajectory that varminters long for. I bought one in the Win 70 Coyote and LOVE it.

If you've got a .223, then use it, if you're buying a new gun, buy a .243win or .243WSSM, they'll better suit deer and they'll still do great on your varmints.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Lets do a poll. all the states I hunt you can use a 22 centerfire. Thats MD, Ky, WV and TX. I see you can't in KS.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

BC, I can assure you that I am not in a class that would be above encouragement! I make my share of mistakes!
And you are right, we don't know how good of a shot Take-em is! I would think from his question that he might not be too familiar with rifles, especially the .223!
That is exactly the point of my post! You may feel good enough to use the .22's on deer, but to recommend a .22 to someone who's shooting abilities that we don't know is irresponsible!
I'll take it a step further, just because I like magnums, it is not something I would reccomend to a new shooter!
However new shooter or pro, Take-em asked if the .223 is safe for deer! My answer is no!

As for your poll, yes the .22 centerfires are legal in Texas! That is not something that I am particularly proud of!

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

I don't know why anyone would want to use a 223 for deer. The 243 is a better choice. A better choice would be the 260 Rem or the 7-08 if you want to use a short action rifle.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Good choice, take-em! The handi-rifle in .243 is an excellent multi-purpose rifle! Do the deer a favor and don't shoot 'em with a .223!;)

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Here's my two cents. Can you kill a deer with a 223. Yes. Heck, you can kill one with a 22 rifle. Would I recommend either as a deer caliber? NO! The bullets for these calibers like 223, 222, 22-250 or 220 swift are just too light to be consistently reliable on deer sized game. Most are 55 grs in weight. Accelerate a bullet that light to the velocities some of the cartridges do and weird things can happen when they hit large solid objects. Sometimes they penetrate; sometimes they deflect; and sometimes they explode.

I'm not just talking out of my a$$ here either. When I was a teenager one of my cousins used a 223 calibered mini 14 to hunt deer. To be honest I am not even sure that was legal in Alabama although I believe you can hunt them with any centerfire caliber here. He definately killed some deer with it but he definately lost some too. And several of the ones he did kill required multiple shots to put them down for good. He had a lot of deer run a long ways after the shot as well. Some we found. Some we didn't. And some we found days later after the meat was spoiled. The primary problem was penetration. Even on a perfect broadside shot that little bullet never exited the other side of a single deer he shot and sometimes only pentrated enough to get one lung and not the other. A single lunged deer will usually die but they can run a helluva long ways with one lung intact. And let me tell you, tracking a deer that travels over 400 yards through south Alabama thickets with only a 22 caliber hole in one side of him to bleed from is challenging to say the least. We started calling it the rat gun and thankfully he only used it a few years.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not one of these guys at the other extreme of this debate that thinks you need a 416 Rigby to hunt deer. I currently use a 7mm-08 and have often defended the 243 as a deer caliber on this very forum. I also know that some people say its okay to use the 223 and take close range head shots. Well at the risk of being branded an elitist know it all (which I certainly am not) I do not recommend this practice either. Pull your shot a couple of inches or the deer makes a slight movement with its head at the last second and rather than a dead deer you have a deer with its upper or lower jaw blown off. I know I would hate to go home knowing a deer was out there somewhere doomed to death by slow starvation because I mutilated it in such a fashion.

Besides I just cannot for the life of me understand why someone would need to use a 223 as a deer gun. What advantage does this caliber or any of its 22 caliber cousins have over the 243? Is it significantly more accurate? No. They may be better for bench rest competitions but the difference in a .445 inch group and a 1 inch group at 100 yards doesn't mean doodly squat in the world of deer hunting. Is the recoil that much less? No. 8 year old kids shoot the 243 from small lightweight youth model rifles with no recoil related problems. If the recoil of a 243 is too much for you then it might be time to consider bass fishing. Are bullets for the 243 hard to come by? No. In fact it is one of the most popular in the nation and there are many to choose from whether you are after whitetails or varmits. Even with a 243 I recommend sticking with a 100 gr bullet and being careful with your shot selection. As far as I am concerned it is the minimum caliber for whitetails

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

If you are going to be handloading I would suggest using the Barnes 53gr. XLC bullet for deer. Also, I would stay within 100 yards. This bullet will give you complete penetration which is what you'll need for this small of a caliber.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

If you're capable of making a good clean shot then it might be alright. also if you handload then maybe a 243 or 25-06 would be better 100-120 grains for deer and 55-75 grains for the small game

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

Its legal in SD. Many ranchers carry 223 and 22-250's in thier trucks for Varmits and many use the same rifle for deer. They are used to shooting prairie dogs and stuff with them and have no trouble head shooting a deer with them either. I have used the 22-250 with the Speer Trophy bonded Bear Claws. I don't take it if I am hunting just deer but if I am varmit hunting during deer season and a good oppertunity comes along I wouldn't hesitate to take the shot. Head shot or clean miss. Its never failed me yet. I would not recommend it for a first time buyer for a deer rifle. The Barnes bullets work great too. I have shot more that a few deer with the old 222 as well. It to was legal where I lived.

RE: is 223 safe for deer
 

NO!!!!!!!:eek:[&:]:);)