One thing you must keep in mind: In most states, the .223rem isn't legal for deer, so you should dually take notice...i.e. make sure it's legal in the state you'll be hunting in...and secondly, MOST people have never used a .223rem for deer because it isn't legal for them...they have no actual experience with the .223 on deer, maybe they've used one on coyotes and varmints, but never deer.

I've never used a .223rem for deer either, but I have used the .22-250, which is quite close in performance to the .223, slightly improved, but close enough for this arguement. Most guns that guys choose in the .223, AR-15s or Heavy bbl bolt guns, are quite accurate, so placing your shot well is easier than say with a standard bbl bolt .30-06, especially moreso than a leveraction .30-30!!! When I hunted a .22-250, I had it in my head that I'd limit my shots to under 150yrds, which is reasonable, it doesn't cut a hunt unrealistically short, but it doesn't ask too much of the round, at that range, I could have shot the deer through the eye off my bipod. Don't make the mistake of using varmint grade bullets on big game, lots of guys hate the 22CF's for losing them deer because they used the wrong bullet.

I hunted deer in TX with a .22-250 Heavy bbl Savage bolt gun, Handloaded ammo with heavy bullets, I can't recall but it seems like they were 75grns even, they were jacketed soft point partitions with bonded core, boat tails...they worked fine, like I said, I cut my range at 150yrds, my actual shots were 68yrds, 44yrds, and 91yrds, the 44yrd and 91yrd deer dropped in a few steps, the 68yrd deer ran about 40-45yrds before collapsing.

The .243win is a better choice by far, I used one for 4-5yrs as a secondary to my .30-06, used it for my second deer of the season after filling my first tag with my .30-06...I really liked it, it's performance was great, recoil and report are low, it was impressively flat shooting and accurate, and the number one thing: it did the job.

If you want it for varmints too, then consider the .243WSSM, it's a considerable upgrade to the .243Win, a goodly bit faster, so it has the flat trajectory that varminters long for. I bought one in the Win 70 Coyote and LOVE it.

If you've got a .223, then use it, if you're buying a new gun, buy a .243win or .243WSSM, they'll better suit deer and they'll still do great on your varmints.

Lets do a poll. all the states I hunt you can use a 22 centerfire. Thats MD, Ky, WV and TX. I see you can't in KS.

BC, I can assure you that I am not in a class that would be above encouragement! I make my share of mistakes!
And you are right, we don't know how good of a shot Take-em is! I would think from his question that he might not be too familiar with rifles, especially the .223!
That is exactly the point of my post! You may feel good enough to use the .22's on deer, but to recommend a .22 to someone who's shooting abilities that we don't know is irresponsible!
I'll take it a step further, just because I like magnums, it is not something I would reccomend to a new shooter!
However new shooter or pro, Take-em asked if the .223 is safe for deer! My answer is no!

As for your poll, yes the .22 centerfires are legal in Texas! That is not something that I am particularly proud of!

I don't know why anyone would want to use a 223 for deer. The 243 is a better choice. A better choice would be the 260 Rem or the 7-08 if you want to use a short action rifle.

Good choice, take-em! The handi-rifle in .243 is an excellent multi-purpose rifle! Do the deer a favor and don't shoot 'em with a .223!

Here's my two cents. Can you kill a deer with a 223. Yes. Heck, you can kill one with a 22 rifle. Would I recommend either as a deer caliber? NO! The bullets for these calibers like 223, 222, 22-250 or 220 swift are just too light to be consistently reliable on deer sized game. Most are 55 grs in weight. Accelerate a bullet that light to the velocities some of the cartridges do and weird things can happen when they hit large solid objects. Sometimes they penetrate; sometimes they deflect; and sometimes they explode.

I'm not just talking out of my a$$ here either. When I was a teenager one of my cousins used a 223 calibered mini 14 to hunt deer. To be honest I am not even sure that was legal in Alabama although I believe you can hunt them with any centerfire caliber here. He definately killed some deer with it but he definately lost some too. And several of the ones he did kill required multiple shots to put them down for good. He had a lot of deer run a long ways after the shot as well. Some we found. Some we didn't. And some we found days later after the meat was spoiled. The primary problem was penetration. Even on a perfect broadside shot that little bullet never exited the other side of a single deer he shot and sometimes only pentrated enough to get one lung and not the other. A single lunged deer will usually die but they can run a helluva long ways with one lung intact. And let me tell you, tracking a deer that travels over 400 yards through south Alabama thickets with only a 22 caliber hole in one side of him to bleed from is challenging to say the least. We started calling it the rat gun and thankfully he only used it a few years.

Now don't get me wrong. I am not one of these guys at the other extreme of this debate that thinks you need a 416 Rigby to hunt deer. I currently use a 7mm-08 and have often defended the 243 as a deer caliber on this very forum. I also know that some people say its okay to use the 223 and take close range head shots. Well at the risk of being branded an elitist know it all (which I certainly am not) I do not recommend this practice either. Pull your shot a couple of inches or the deer makes a slight movement with its head at the last second and rather than a dead deer you have a deer with its upper or lower jaw blown off. I know I would hate to go home knowing a deer was out there somewhere doomed to death by slow starvation because I mutilated it in such a fashion.

Besides I just cannot for the life of me understand why someone would need to use a 223 as a deer gun. What advantage does this caliber or any of its 22 caliber cousins have over the 243? Is it significantly more accurate? No. They may be better for bench rest competitions but the difference in a .445 inch group and a 1 inch group at 100 yards doesn't mean doodly squat in the world of deer hunting. Is the recoil that much less? No. 8 year old kids shoot the 243 from small lightweight youth model rifles with no recoil related problems. If the recoil of a 243 is too much for you then it might be time to consider bass fishing. Are bullets for the 243 hard to come by? No. In fact it is one of the most popular in the nation and there are many to choose from whether you are after whitetails or varmits. Even with a 243 I recommend sticking with a 100 gr bullet and being careful with your shot selection. As far as I am concerned it is the minimum caliber for whitetails

If you are going to be handloading I would suggest using the Barnes 53gr. XLC bullet for deer. Also, I would stay within 100 yards. This bullet will give you complete penetration which is what you'll need for this small of a caliber.

If you're capable of making a good clean shot then it might be alright. also if you handload then maybe a 243 or 25-06 would be better 100-120 grains for deer and 55-75 grains for the small game

Its legal in SD. Many ranchers carry 223 and 22-250's in thier trucks for Varmits and many use the same rifle for deer. They are used to shooting prairie dogs and stuff with them and have no trouble head shooting a deer with them either. I have used the 22-250 with the Speer Trophy bonded Bear Claws. I don't take it if I am hunting just deer but if I am varmit hunting during deer season and a good oppertunity comes along I wouldn't hesitate to take the shot. Head shot or clean miss. Its never failed me yet. I would not recommend it for a first time buyer for a deer rifle. The Barnes bullets work great too. I have shot more that a few deer with the old 222 as well. It to was legal where I lived.

NO!!!!!!![&:]