is 223 safe for deer
02-03-2004, 08:44 AM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,813
RE: is 223 safe for deer
Hey akbound,
I was once up near Atric Village (Alaska) looking through my binocks at the nativies shooting into a heard of caribou with 223's.. (mini 14's) They "machine guned" into the heard as long as they could see them, all while chaseing them with a forestry track vechile!!!!!! Then only to go pull out JUST THE DEAD OR DIEING ones!!!!! I saw several "humped up ones" that were obviously wounded go off out of sight, and i never saw them go after them either.
That evening they took the dead ones to there air port to be flown to Venintie and i had a chance to look them over better.
After liveing 25 years in Alaska and seeing sh** like that, i don't think much of "anything" the natives do out in the bush!!!!!
Drilling Man
I was once up near Atric Village (Alaska) looking through my binocks at the nativies shooting into a heard of caribou with 223's.. (mini 14's) They "machine guned" into the heard as long as they could see them, all while chaseing them with a forestry track vechile!!!!!! Then only to go pull out JUST THE DEAD OR DIEING ones!!!!! I saw several "humped up ones" that were obviously wounded go off out of sight, and i never saw them go after them either.
That evening they took the dead ones to there air port to be flown to Venintie and i had a chance to look them over better.
After liveing 25 years in Alaska and seeing sh** like that, i don't think much of "anything" the natives do out in the bush!!!!!
Drilling Man
02-03-2004, 09:51 AM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 170
RE: is 223 safe for deer
Isn't funny how people take things so personally that they overlook the point being made. I was in now way shape or form degrading or putting anyone down for using a .223, the point I was trying to make was that a larger bullet is more forgiving than a smaller bullet. Not every hunter will take the time to set up a perfect shot every time out. So, a larger bullet will enable them to make a safer ane cleaner kill than the smaller .223. That is all I was saying and I apologize if I offended anyone by my earlier post. That certainly was not my intention.
Matt
Matt
02-03-2004, 11:48 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: is 223 safe for deer
Ky, I for one don't think that you have anything to appologize for!
If its legal to use the .22's, you are hunting legal! That is about the best that I can say for the use of any .22 for big game hunting!
The place to test your guns and show off your accuracy, is at the range, not in the hunting field!
And to advise anyone who is buying a gun for deer, to buy any .22 is totally irresponsible! Especially when you know nothing of their shooting ability!
They should be incouraged to get an adequate caliber, practice, and shoot for the big target, not the head!
If its legal to use the .22's, you are hunting legal! That is about the best that I can say for the use of any .22 for big game hunting!
The place to test your guns and show off your accuracy, is at the range, not in the hunting field!
And to advise anyone who is buying a gun for deer, to buy any .22 is totally irresponsible! Especially when you know nothing of their shooting ability!
They should be incouraged to get an adequate caliber, practice, and shoot for the big target, not the head!
02-03-2004, 02:44 PM
#28
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: is 223 safe for deer
Hi DM,
That is the end result in having a class of "citizens with SUPER rights".....because we as a society still feel guilty for the sins of what happened in this country generations, and/or centuries ago. (The myth of "noble savage"...is mostly that....a myth).
As I said in my post.....I wouldn't do it! But to get right down to it.....go read Teddy Roosevelt's accounts of hunting as practiced by sportsmen....a century or more ago. There are many accounts of shooting at dangerous game....and herds of game......400, 500, 600 yards and more, (frequently with wounded game not recovered). So it hasn't always been just one particular group of people that are "haphazard" in their approach to shooting on live animals. (As a matter of fact......reread some of the post from this site......over the last six months! There are many, many, many, accounts of people taking shots at "live animals" at ranges that has at best to be considered......"chancey". And at worst unsportsman like.)
But to get back to my original point. You can kill deer with a .223. But "only" experienced, patient, and extremely ethical people should do it! Because without the application of all of those traits......the .223 is not a "great" deer cartridge!
Most of us know that nearly anything is "possible" under good conditions....but it makes life so much easier if we don't always put so many restrictions on us. Particularly newer hunters......that might "feel the need to ask.....if it is sufficient! So when they ask for advice in that regard.....we'd do well to consider the possible inexperience prior to recommending an "experts" tool. We do both the beginner.....and the game animal....a disservice!
That is the end result in having a class of "citizens with SUPER rights".....because we as a society still feel guilty for the sins of what happened in this country generations, and/or centuries ago. (The myth of "noble savage"...is mostly that....a myth).
As I said in my post.....I wouldn't do it! But to get right down to it.....go read Teddy Roosevelt's accounts of hunting as practiced by sportsmen....a century or more ago. There are many accounts of shooting at dangerous game....and herds of game......400, 500, 600 yards and more, (frequently with wounded game not recovered). So it hasn't always been just one particular group of people that are "haphazard" in their approach to shooting on live animals. (As a matter of fact......reread some of the post from this site......over the last six months! There are many, many, many, accounts of people taking shots at "live animals" at ranges that has at best to be considered......"chancey". And at worst unsportsman like.)
But to get back to my original point. You can kill deer with a .223. But "only" experienced, patient, and extremely ethical people should do it! Because without the application of all of those traits......the .223 is not a "great" deer cartridge!
Most of us know that nearly anything is "possible" under good conditions....but it makes life so much easier if we don't always put so many restrictions on us. Particularly newer hunters......that might "feel the need to ask.....if it is sufficient! So when they ask for advice in that regard.....we'd do well to consider the possible inexperience prior to recommending an "experts" tool. We do both the beginner.....and the game animal....a disservice!
02-03-2004, 11:11 PM
#29
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Port Neches, Texas
Posts: 5,514
RE: is 223 safe for deer
Bigcountry, what encouraging would I need? I use a .308 or 7MM RM!
A little overkill, but you can't kill 'em too dead! I also go for the best target possible, heart/lung shot!
You won't see me recommending any .22 or head shots either! As I said, the very BEST that I can say about the .22's is IF its legal, then you are legal!
You could drive a railroad spike with a claw hammer, but you could drive it better with a sledge hammer!
A little overkill, but you can't kill 'em too dead! I also go for the best target possible, heart/lung shot!
You won't see me recommending any .22 or head shots either! As I said, the very BEST that I can say about the .22's is IF its legal, then you are legal!
You could drive a railroad spike with a claw hammer, but you could drive it better with a sledge hammer!
02-04-2004, 10:34 AM
#30
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: is 223 safe for deer
I am not sure what encouraging you will need. In other words are you so good, that you don't need to be encouraged. Are you the best of the best. I mean your the guy who said
"The place to test your guns and show off your accuracy, is at the range, not in the hunting field!
And to advise anyone who is buying a gun for deer, to buy any .22 is totally irresponsible! Especially when you know nothing of their shooting ability!
They should be incouraged to get an adequate caliber, practice, and shoot for the big target, not the head!"
I mean the way you wrote this, that you are elite and don't need any encouragement but poor little "take-em" does. Take em might be 10 times the shooter you are or me for all we know. Thats the reason I said to him, " I don't know you or your abilities" Some might think you need encouragement to change your ways of using a 7RM to a .243 and need some encouragement. Some might think its too small and you should use 45/70's only. I can't see any post about head shots or encouraging him to take head shots. Or really encouraging him to get a 223 for hunting. I see people do it. I have never did it. But they down more deer than me. Who am I to judge them. Or you or "take-em".
"The place to test your guns and show off your accuracy, is at the range, not in the hunting field!
And to advise anyone who is buying a gun for deer, to buy any .22 is totally irresponsible! Especially when you know nothing of their shooting ability!
They should be incouraged to get an adequate caliber, practice, and shoot for the big target, not the head!"
I mean the way you wrote this, that you are elite and don't need any encouragement but poor little "take-em" does. Take em might be 10 times the shooter you are or me for all we know. Thats the reason I said to him, " I don't know you or your abilities" Some might think you need encouragement to change your ways of using a 7RM to a .243 and need some encouragement. Some might think its too small and you should use 45/70's only. I can't see any post about head shots or encouraging him to take head shots. Or really encouraging him to get a 223 for hunting. I see people do it. I have never did it. But they down more deer than me. Who am I to judge them. Or you or "take-em".