30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I was looking to buy a new rifle chambered in a rare but very powerful cartridge.I was going to buy a 30-378 weatherby but it cost around 60 dollars a box,then i was gonna get a 308 warbird but thats 100 dollars a box.Please somebody give me some ideas.I want a gun that not many people have.And im only 16 so i am limited on money.I might just have to end up getting a 300 ultra mag.
THANKS

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Hi footballboy5571,

If you're willing to reload (can get started for about $100.) you can cut ammo costs considerably. You will still get "pinched" when you buy the first ammo or brass...but beyond that it wouldn't be much more expensive than the standard magnums. (A little more in powder and probably the cost of premium bullets to insure they hold up...but no where near the cost of factory.)

As for the rifle on a budget...I think Savage chambers for the Lazzeroni cartridge. But no matter how you trim costs...it will always be more than a more common caliber. The price of exclusivity!

Good luck!

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Savage has there model 16LZ in the 7.82 Patriot, which is their short magnum. It is right on the heels of the 300 Weatherby, and more powerful than the .300 WM or any of the other short magnums on the market. That rifle is selling for $399 right now, but then there is the scope and ammo to consider also. It is a powerful enough cartridge for anything in North America.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Either cartridge will put you in "fast company" but they are both pricey to shoot. I chose the Lazzeroni because I practically stole it back in 99 (NIB dealer cost $450, that has nearly doubled since!). My step-brother is a Lazzeroni dealer and even he quit shooting a Warbird because he just could'nt mentally get over the fact that it cost him $5 to pull the trigger. As for the big WBY, its a fine rig as well but being a WBY (double radiused shoulder and belted case) it typically is'nt as accurate as the Sako/Warbird-Firebird rig (unless you are willing to spend twice the money on a custom Mark V and then shoot custom ammo!). The 'bird typically outshoots the big Wby by 100fps or more with most bullets, even a larger margin when talking about 180+ grain bullets.

On the negative side (Lazz wise), the Wby ammo is MUCH easier to get than Lazzeroni ammo as any firearms dealer can order Wby ammo from a multitude of wholesalers. Lazzeroni ammo is only available from Lazzeroni Arms Inc in Tucson, AZ and JoeBlow gun dealer likely will have to go thru the credit check, sign up avenue or prepay with credit card before anything is shipped to him.

One thing about it, both are THE king and crowned price in the 30caliber world and leave the rest of the "magnums" quaking in their brass! ;)
RA

ps
The Savage/Lazzeroni is'nt available in the Warbird, but in Lazz's shortaction mag the Patriot. A good buddy of mine bought one lastyear and it is a FINE rifle and is the ballistic equivalent of a 300Wby Mag but in a lighter and quicker handling shortaction gun... did I mention it kicks like an abused mule???

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Just figured a price for personally loaded 7.82 Warbird would be about $3.15 a round the first go around, and then slightly less there after until you have to buy new brass. Thats with Barnes X bullets and figuring about a quarter a shot for powder!

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

What are you going to kill with these Anti Aircraft guns?

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Hey James....why antiaircrafts of course!

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Of course. Why didn't that occure to me. :D Thought maybe he lived next to Jurassic park.:)

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Does Area 51 count?:) We could sit on a distant ridge and snipe some of those aliens that don't exist!:D;)

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

This boy must play offensive line.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I would go with the Weatherby Mark V Accumark .30-378 Wby. Mag. Good luck.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

actually i play middle linebacker.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Another idea would be either a 300RUM or 300Wby. I think both would be cheaper to shoot than either a Warbird or 30-378.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

When I was 16, I probably wouldn't get either. Now, I shoot 300RUM, and 300Win, and I can get close to a 30-378 with a 180gr bullets flying at 3350fps. But when I was 16, I only have 4 to 6 good years experience shooting 270Wins, and 243's, and wasn't near ready for a those heavy of a rounds. I am a huge advocate of having these rounds available and people shooting them.

If you have too, the 300RUM would be more economical and more pratical. Maybe a 338WinMag. For north america, the 338Win Mag is very nice for Elk, Moose, etc.

James B, you seem to be haveing trouble with this question. I see you post this same question over and over for anything going over 3100fps with an 180gr bullet. The answer has been posted to you several times. These are high powered rifles. They are meant for game from Deer to Bear, or even African game. A gun is a gun is a gun. If the animal is down, it didn't matter what you hit him with.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

That's strange. Usually takes some intelligence to play defense.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Hi bigcountry,

Please don't take offense, it's not meant that way. And I do not presume to be answering for James, I am sure he can answer for himself. And I am most certainly not trying to "interject myself into the middle of something".

I would like to make an observation though. At least in this particular thread the individual asking the question is very young. And by his own admission has "limited means". Without being too presumptuious, and I could be wrong, he probably has limited experience with firearms, (simply because of his limited financial means). He has stated he enjoys shooting big guns, (nothing wrong with that), and if you will, "he's a recoil junkie", (nothing wrong with that). But I would venture a guess that his total sum of experience is rather limited. And in this vein there is probably nothing wrong with advising him that all that size and energy is NOT necessary for deer hunting. There is nothing wrong with it, in and of itself. As you stated, "dead is dead", and I agree absolutely! But I honestly think most young (beginning hunters) would be served with a somewhat less stout cartridge for deer hunting. They are cheaper to shoot, (he admitted an important consideration), they are easier to learn good shooting habits with, and undoubtedly it is much easier to find ammo in nearly any location. All important considerations.

I don't think there is any thing wrong with attempting to point out this side of the issue....when asked by inexperienced shooters. Sometimes youthful enthusiasm should be tempered!

Now please, before you beat me up verbally, understand what I have NOT just said. I did not say there was anything wrong with any of the new magnums, (simply because there isn't), at least not inherently. And I did not say you should not have one, (or more), and use them if you like. Because you should! I am only pointing out that they are not necessary for deer hunting and in fact may not be good choices for "young" (ie. inexperienced) shooters.

I have magnum rifles in different calibers, (up to and including Magnums in calibers as large as .458). I use and enjoy using them. I most decidely believe magnums have their place. And if they give joy to someone while using them....that's great.

And it is also important on a forum like this that others, (especially the inexperienced) hear all sides of the argument...if you will. Which is why your opinion is as valued as James'.

And by the way....they do one thing better than any of the comparable standards....some magnums do in fact flatten trajectories enough to make it easier for many rifleman to effectively extend their range, (as long as they practice enough to have skills comparable to the cartridges capabilities).

Best wishes!

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I think we are saying the same thing almost here Ak. I value all's opinion, except Frizz's statement, could be left out. I remember when I was 14 dreaming of owning the biggest caliber on the block. I don't believe intelligence has alot to do with it. Its just a young shooter likeing big guns. Fortunately for me when I was 16, I didn't have near the means to even go shooting more than 3 or 4 times a year. Even with my trusty 270Win. So fortunely I couldn't fullfill my dreams of haveing a barrel burner. And I am glad, cause I sure wan't ready for one. Thats just me.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Hi bigcountry,

I hear ya. I remember having a "Jungle Jim" set long before I was a teenager, (I know, I really aged myself with that one). And the day dreams and anticipations are not only important....but actually provide more satisfaction simply because they are not limited to financial means, or the time we can set aside from our busy lives. They are frequently part of what makes life worth living.

I think Frizz's statement was said with a "wink and a smile", or at least I certainly hope it was! Hopefully footballboy5571 understood that as well. I know a little humor goes a long way....as long as it's not at someone else's expense! (If you check out the - lazzeroni 308 warbird - thread we were having a little fun yesterday.) I'm pretty certain footballboy5571 realized it was a little humor....but not at his expense!

I read everything I could get my hands on when I was younger if it pertained to guns and hunting. And took every opportunity I could to converse with those more experienced than I, (though frequently I wasn't always invited). And I would have "died" to have had the kind of access to this information and conversation....that the internet provides. (Though it may well have infringed on the time I actually spent outdoors....so maybe best I didn't.)

But I agree with you in that we should be very careful not to stifle someones' curiosity, especially todays' young people!

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Heck I'm over 50 , And I still have the need for speed.;)



Why is the magic number 4000 f.p.s. I want something that will shoot 5000 f.p.s.:D

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

All I gots to say is that both the 30-378 and 308 Warbird are going to be very expensive to shoot. Even if you handload, the initial brass price will be crazy. I got a 300 Weatherby a few years ago and couldn't believe how fast I was going through powder. I was used to reloading for a 30-06 and 7mm Rem Mag. I'd love to own one of those cannons because they'd be a lot of fun but I won't "shell":D out that kind of dough.

Scott Meier
White Oak Lodge

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Hey swampdog,

Ifin you ain't too old....join the Army. Ask to be a 19K, (Tanker), and with some training and a little experience you can have something that closes on that 5000fps. Don't think you'll shoulder fire it much though!;)

P.S. I didn't hear nothing about over 50!

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I actually do have a lot of experiance with many different guns.My Grandad was a gunsmith until he died last february.Im hoping i can be a gunsmith to once i get out of high school.He would fix peoples guns and bring them back for me to test fire and see if they worked.He usually brought home at least 2 guns a day to let me shoot.I once shot a 460 Weatherby Mag.THat was pretty fun.I would like to shoot a 600 nitro express one day.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

BC. won't happen again.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

i know

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Since you enjoyed the 460 Mag, Take a look at the 378 Weatherby Mag. It Ballistics are impressive. It shoots flat and fast and would iliminate the need to upgrade for a while. Soon someone will come up with a cartridge that will make the 378 look whimpy but until then you would be near to king of the hill. Speaking of 3100 fps, this puppy will do that with a 270 gr spire point. The 300 gr spire point moves along at 2900 fps. Cost wise the ammo should not be much more expensive than the two small rounds you are looking at. Check it out.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

AK, I don't think they will let me back in after 30 years.....LOL Anyway I am to old, fat ,And beat up to be a good little 11 Bang -Bang anymore or any of my other 11 designations.;).Sometimes I felt like I was going 5000 f.p.s. coming out of those C 130's or Hueys..........lol



What about that .257 "HOT TAMALI" That I have been hearing about? Still in the kill zone of a deer at 500 yds.Thats +/- 12" drop.Not bad in anybody's book

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I think that to notice the difference with any of the super mags, you have to spend alot of time on the range and be very proficient with a rifle and its characteristics. When you are talking about ballistics of these rifles, you are talking about adequate big game guns to 1,000 yards in proficient hands. I don't think that you would notice much difference in one or the other if your shooting will be done any closer than 300 yards. If I were sixteen, I would get one of the .300 mags, or maybe a 7mmSTW, and go from there, because they are so much cheaper to shoot. Keep in mind also that a scope has to be able to handle the recoil of any magnum rifle, so you don't want to cheap out in that department. Between the two, I would probably opt for the Lazzeroni, given an unlimited budget, because he builds such amazing rifles and cartridges. You can't go wrong with a weatherby though either, and the 30-378 is a hot, hot round too. If you are set on a supermag, flip a coin, and get out the wallet. Good luck man.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Hey swampdog,

Spent twenty plus years pounding ground (llB__). Ya ain't never too old or too fat to be a tanker! (Okay, you tankers.....don't beat me to death. Just kidding. My father was a tanker in the Korean War. I have lots of respect for them too!)

But that 120 Smoothbore either crunches 5000fps (or gets real close) the newest variation's performance specs are still classified. And when that puppy goes down range....it does it with "Authority" As in "Respect my Authoriata"! (Cartman;)).

P.S. Not very many jumping outta Hueys anymore....they've got Blackhawks now!

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Hello Footballboy 5571

yotes with a weatherby huh, ever shoot 1 of those 30/378, or the 338/378? recoil is not that extreme but the noise will deafen ya. I used to shoot yotes with a swift but retired it when i bought my 338/378 wanted something that would reach out there an slap them good.!!:D the new weatherby catalog lists the 338/378 for 1,972.00 for the accumark, put a good quality scope on it an your talkin not cheap.. it is a must to reload if you plan on shootin it regulary. I use it to take anyting from prairie dogs to moose. retired my old deer rifle (375 H.H) for my weatherby... good luck on your choice an reach out an touch em.......:D

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Ive seen some of your other posts and come to the conclusion that you just want the crap beat out of you. If you do there is always the .50 BMG and take one to a gunsmith and have him saw off the barrel to about 18 inches or whatever the shortest legal length is and make sure its a bolt action. That will give you your kicks and probly not any giggles.:D:D:D

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

FBB:

Those Weatherby and Lazzeroni cartridges are so hot already, you probably will not be able to improve their performance (fps) by reloading. You might be able to increase accuracy a bit with slightly lower velocity. You certainly could lower your cost/cartridge by reloading. Given what you have said, .300 RUM seems like a better match.

Good luck in your quest...

CE

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

hey football, i was wondering..... will this be your first gun? and also what would you be hunting for? Either one of these guns are more than sufficient for any game in north america. Remember, its more important to hit your targetand hit it accurately than it is to buy a gunwere the recoil(especially) for these two guns could be an issue of flinching in feild or at the range.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I just cannot imagine being 16 years old, squeezing the trigger, getting the crap knocked out of me, and watching $3.00 leave my pocket. You can get get comparable performance from the beltless Ultra Mag for alot less moneyand get a wider selection of actions to choose from. In fact you could almost buy an Ultra Mag and with the money you save buy a.223 for for target practice to improve your technique.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

...577Tyranasaurus anyone?

Ron:D

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Either should work well for varmits and the smaller whitetail deer. With good bullets and shot placment that is.:D;)

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I gots me one of them there 577 Tyrannosaurus Mags....only prob is I blew all my money on it and now have to save a few more years to afford the guidance system....[:o]

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Thats OK DD. Just hit the ground anywhere near the critter and fetch them from the crater.;)

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

I don't see why anyone would want the 30-378, or the warbird, or the lazzeroni, or any of the 300mags besides the winchester. Alright, I can make an argument for the short action magnums, because they let you use a smaller gun if that suits you, but other than that the 300 winchester magnum has been around a long long time. The factory loads are great and there is SOOOO much information on reloading the 300 winmag that you could try a different elk load every day for a year. Do you really see a difference in field performance? With the 300 winmag you can take the biggest elk or moose at rediculous distances if you can hit them. I just don't see the point I guess.

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

Think about it,if your limited by money you can stop right there then.One must reload when having odd ball market made guns. What would you do if you went hunting out of state and lost you shell? Stores wouldn,t have any.Thats ust one thought. Second to much gun,and a waste of powder also. They are what one might call "killers and cripplers".Yes they would kill whats in front of them and cripple whats behind them! vangunsmith

RE: 30-378 or 308 warbird
 

And there you have it folks, more boosheut being heaped upon, by the shovel full upon the "anti-magnum wagon".

James B, Doe Dumper, TomFTS, van... How many of you have actually hunted with a "Super Mag"? I just want to know how much hunting you guys have done with these guns that would allow you to make such confident statements about their lack of adequate performance? BTW TomFTS the Warbird IS a Lazzeroni. Tom you also asked why someone would want a SuperMag over the 300Winnie. For those who "can't see/understand the difference" between a typical mag vs a supermag, compare ballistics of the two over 300yds and you will QUICKLY see why some might like the added ease of long range shooting with "laserguns". I'll just put a simple Factory ammuntion ballistics comparison chart up for reference and perhaps a "lil bit" of evidence:

The chart below shows a 300Win with a 150Interbond (polytipped Accubond copy) from Hornady and just so some can't call me biased, I'll pick Lazzeroni's lowly 150 Nosler Partition load (the 150 Lazerhead load is faster and much more aerodynamic but I'll "go low" to show non-bias). Again these are factory ammo offerings and generally agreed NOT to be loaded soft or slow!



300Win Muzzle Velocity:3250 100yds: +1.5" 400yds: -16", 2400fps/1900ft#s 500yds: -33", 2150fps/1500ft#s
308Wbd Muzzle Velocity:3800 100yds: +1.5" 400yds: -6" , 2900fps/2800ft#s 500yds: -16", 2700fps/2500ft#s

Now I ask, who wouldn't want that extra ease in trajectory, not to mention the added horsepower to realiably penetrate completely at such ranges? As much difference as the trajectory is between the two you should see the differences in wind drift, simply amazing! Keep in mind this is comparing a 300Winnie too a 308 Warbird, anyone want to see the difference in a 30/06 as compared too the Warbird? It's like comparing my wifes Expedition too a topfuel dragster! :D The 150 leaves the 06 muzzle at appx the same velocity that it is still doing at 350yds from the Warbird!

I personally don't see ANY difference in the men who dumped their 30/30s 50 years ago in favor of cartridges like the 30/06class for their added range, vs those of us who have chosen to set aside our traditional big game calibers (270, 30/06, 7mag) for the newer SuperMags to pick up their extra yardage and power as well. I just don't see the difference, I think it's simply a continuation or maybe "the next chapter" in the history of big game cartridges and the evolution of big-game hunting itself. I'm know my grandfather argued the merits of his 35 Rem back in the 60s with those in his deercamp who were totin 30/06s or GOD FORBID something like a 7Rem Mag or 300Wby Mag!!!

Sure SuperMags are more expensive to own and use, sure they can kick the wax out of your ears, sure they burn more powder, sure their barrels won't have a multi-thousand round barrel life like more mundane calibers. BUT that obviously doesn't stop everyone now does it? There are some out there that choose to live with the negatives in return for the positives. It's the same reason some folks choose to take the city bus too work while others choose to drive a Ferrari. This is America and it can be for no other reason than simply because they can and they want to! ;)

I don't consider it a "stunt" to reliably and confidently take big game at 500yds with a properly equipped SuperMag in competent hands under decent and well planned conditions. I DO consider it a stunt for the average hunter to try that same shot, from the typical treestand with his trusty ol 30/06 Rem700 with a 3x9 Bushnell scope!!!
RA