Just trying to figure this out. I understand it has better external ballistics for longer ranges. But in all sincerity, how many of us hunters ever shoot past 400 yards? Even the western hunters don't really take many shots on live game past 400. 400 and closer, the .308 hits harder. Very simple there. To be honest, the .30tc, what the creedmoor parent case is, hits harder out to 400 as well. Now for paper punchers, yes the 6.5 is a shooters dream. Low recoil, very flat, seems to buck the wind very well. But from a hunters aspect, factory ammo is about twice the cost of .308, it has little to no advantage over .308 until after 400 yards, and the .308 is just historically proven beyond any doubts. I just don't see the attraction that it has gathered. It's almost cult like.

It recoils less, it's efficient, less wind drift, it's a short action, it comes in every type of action and rifle you could want, ammo is widely available and cheap. Good ammo is widely available. Barrel life, good components, weight,

There are lots of reasons.

But it mostly comes down to a combination of good marketing, good rifles, and good ammo.
- jake

Going to work back to front on your argument Jake.

Good components and weight: Same could be said for every rifle cartridge made.

Barrel life: The 6.5 creed has significantly LESS barrel life than any loading of .308 by well over 2000 rounds.

Ammo availability and cost: The .308 is even more widely available by a large percentage as well as significantly less expensive in hunting rounds.

Wind drift: As I pointed out, it does buck the wind a bit better (on paper but I have seen several very good BC .30cal bullets handle wind just as well) but that slight advantage in wind drift and down range energy doesn't really add up to much until after 400 yards.

Recoil: Yes it has less recoil which can really come into play when going for a super light rig for mountain hunting. I myself like a heavier rifle for off hand shooting. Even using my mono pod, a heavier rifle seems to steady in faster and makes tracking a target easier. If people would learn to hold a rifle properly and have properly fitting stocks they wouldn't worry so much about recoil. The old man had me shooting his 500 nitro express at 15. Don't know if you have ever shot one of those but I will tell you, it is most definitely NOT for the weak!

The marketing, quality rifles and ammo can be said again for every rifle and ammo made. What I am trying to figure out is the cultish like following. Again, I understand it for the very few hunters that shoot past 400 yards, but for the rest of us mere mortals, I just don't get the love fest.

It's not my argument.

You asked why.

I answered.

Obviously those traits are not exclusive to the 6.5creed.

I also don't, and probably never will, own one.

- jake

And no, the marketing and rifles and ammo is not for every rifle made. When's the last time you saw an advertisement for the .270 or .300 savage? Try buying a new rifle in .30TC, .260rem, or 6.5x47.

The cult following you're talking about is directly related to those three things. You can get cheap, quality ammo in comparison to allot of other things. You can get an AR10, semi custom bolt actions, or cheap tupperware entry level rifles and they flooded the market with catchy advertisements. And lots of rifle availability.

As an example- the .360 buckhammer. Not allot of rifles to choose from if you want one. However, if they marketed it, expanded the rifles it was available in and gave people lots of options it would be popular in straight wall states.

Only having it commonly available in the Henry- it will never catch up to the other, already established, options.


- jake

Jake, wiill see what his response is, then I will weigh in, you are 100 % correct.

I was referring mainly to the "good rifles and good ammo" when I said that to be about any rifle. It doesn't matter what cartridge it is in. Good quality rifle and ammo is a given to be taken in.

You want to talk about marketing, lets talk about a round in numbers and marketing that has been around for a good many years now and has numbers out to 500 that slightly exceed the 6.5creed in everything but recoil. That's the 7mm/08. Dad was building those years before Rem laid claim to them. And it was, unlike the 6.5, better than the .308 in everything under 500 yards. With the exception of terminal ballistics when the .308 was loaded with 180gr bullets. Then the 308 was a bit better on impact because of the weight difference. Dad would crack me up saying "the 7mm/08 is what the .308 wanted to be when it grew up". He actually toyed with the idea of making an "Ackley Improved" 7mm/08 by bumping the shoulders in to 40 degrees but never went through with the design. Anyway, back to the subject, long story short, there have been many new cartridges hit the market and quite a few of them as recently as within 10 years. Yet non of them with this HUGE following which is why I posed the question. The round just doesn't have all these advantages that it is played up to. While yes it does have a couple that are truly advantageous such as recoil and down range power, for normal hunting ranges, it just doesn't seem to garner all this stroking.

RR, you are one of the long range "extra mortals" I was referring to. If my memory is correct, you sit over big fields and do a lot of whitetail depredation removal at long range correct? You and long range paper punchers are what this round was designed for. Let me know if I am incorrect in saying it has absolutely no advantages over the 7mm/08 in under 500 yards with the exception of just a slight bit less recoil.

Well, The powers that be had really hyped up the creed as a long range target/hunting rifle before it was produced. they knew it had to be done right so what was the flagship rifle? the RPR. one of the more accurate out of the box production rifles. and it was better quality ammo than usually follows introduction of a new chambering. I have known for years what a good barrel and good ammo will do. I bought one because I wanted an AR10 but don't like the 308 at all, the 260 and 7mm/08 are a bit to long overall with good bullets to run well in the AR mag. Though I limit it on game to 700 yards due to ME dropping below 1K ft/lbs have shot groups at 1100 of 1/2 MOA with factory ammo.
Its an easy shooting round thats easy to shoot, and has earned its place in the shooting world. plus you can walk in any sporting goods store, mom and pop shop, or wal-mart and buy ammo for it. The folks that don't like it, mostly just dislike it because its pushed their favorite cartridge out of the way. There will be another round of this in the future as the 22 ARC overtakes thee 22-250.
Why does it matter what outperforms what? not everyone buys a corvette because its faster than most others, you buy what works for the job at hand.
Where did you get the data on the 308vs creed barrel life? they load to the same pressure, creed uses less powder, don't see much difference in longivity IME

Your dad is the reason I got into 7mm-08s

It's worked well for us.





- jake

You will never read a bad word from me about the 7mm/08, have had a savage 99 so chambered for 30 years or so, have taken many deer, bear, and hogs with it, but it's capabilities have nothing to do with the popularity of the Creed. The Creed is yesterday's 243, not as good as the 6mm but was introduced at the optimum time to gain a better foothold in a fast paced industry.
The 25 WSSM is another excellent medium game round that was pushed out by crowding the field with new cartridges. I have hunted many years, and IME there is no better deer round than a nosler 115 BT @ 3000 fps, but finding ammo or components is a problem