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223 ?

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Old 10-12-2018, 02:14 AM
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If the 223 is not supposedly big enough to take down a 100 to 175 pound deer why does the Government arm our service people with this to defend them self in battle ?
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Old 10-12-2018, 03:45 AM
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Because human beings are much easier to kill than a bear or a deer. The 223 has no business in a big game hunt.
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Old 10-12-2018, 05:22 AM
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They told us in the military that the object was to create as many causalities as possible. Basically if you kill one guy you have one guy out of the fight, if you wound one it takes more people to evacuate them, taking more people out of the fight. And they added commanders, that don't take care of their wounded quickly lose the confidence of their soldiers.
That is the talking point anyway. Whether it is fact or fiction I have no idea, above my pay grade.
I always did wonder about it also causing manpower drains on the us, caring for enemy casualties. Those talking points always did strike me as salesmanship.
One talking point did make sense, .223 rounds are lighter and you can carry more ammo. Soldiers in combat are notoriously bad shots, quantity versus quality.

I always carried the "Pig" M-60 machine gun, I was loath to be under gunned. Sure I sweated more, but I had a lot more confidence. The M-2 was even better.
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Old 10-12-2018, 06:46 AM
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the ammo used by the military is designed to wound , not necessarily kill rapidly,
http://www.weaponslaw.org/instrument...ue-Declaration
http://www.weaponslaw.org/assets/dow...ng_bullets.pdf
its not designed to expand and maximize internal damage to the full potential available,
as it would be with bullets designed for hunting deer.
I just posted info in a similar 223 related thread
Top shelf ammo for hunting deer with a bolt action .223

Last edited by hardcastonly; 10-12-2018 at 06:50 AM.
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Old 10-12-2018, 08:43 AM
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There are viable options for hunting deer with 223/5.56. There are very few worse choices, and very, very many better choices.
Attached Thumbnails 223 ?-f85c92a4-a610-428a-8a9a-f0d7f0bfcc50.jpeg  
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Old 10-12-2018, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by MudderChuck View Post
I always carried the "Pig" M-60 machine gun, I was loath to be under gunned. Sure I sweated more, but I had a lot more confidence.
. Military use is far different than hunting.

As a hunting round fired from a sporting rifle I believe it would work for smaller deer at reasonable ranges but it is certainly has minimal power.

Last edited by Big Uncle; 11-26-2018 at 04:11 PM.
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:31 PM
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im going with Mudderchuck the purpose in the military if you are in a firefight or assaulting a objective then if you kill the a member of the Opfor then its just one man down and one less gun so say you got 10 guns firing down on you then there is still 9 more but if you wound a guy then it takes him out of the fight and then 2 to 4 other guys there eliminating more guns since they got to help their buddy get back to safety and try to fix him up so out of 10 guns you could be down to 6or 7 there fore if overpowing them makes the Opfor to fall back and reorganize allowing you to puh forward even more now on the hunting side your looking to put em down quick and efficiently

hope it helps paint a better picture for you
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:42 PM
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The original ball ammo provided to the military was actually very efficient against a human. Ball ammo has a tendency to yaw upon impact. While this limits penetration, it does cause massive wounding. Not good for hunting but definitely good in a firefight. Hunting ammunition in .223/5.56 has really progressed and is designed to penetrate and have controlled expansion. While it is far from a first choice for whitetail sized game, in qualified hands it is an effective cartridge with todays advanced bullet designs. If it can kill a 150-300 pound wild hog, and I know for a fact it can because I have dropped quite a few with mine, then it can take a much easier to penetrate whitetail deer. But you are limited in both range and shot placement which is why I stated it should be used only by qualified individuals with excellent marksmanship skills as well as patience to wait for proper shot presentation.
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Old 11-28-2018, 04:36 PM
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The savage enemies we have faced since Viet Nam don,t care one bit about gettin their wounded out.Thr VC admitted that if they lost 100 to our 1 they counted that has a success.They used that wounded scenario against,t us,not the other way around.
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Old 11-28-2018, 06:05 PM
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I am not a fan of it for me. It has become popular with some, for its long range ballasitcs. There arguement is if you wait for a perfect shot , it will die. I agree. But I don't see a lot of deer in the snowbelt, and running a 100 yards can be like a 1000 tracking. But hunting in wide open areas is different.

Also ammo has come a long way. I wouldn't used a 243, at this point in my life either, but many do.

People hunt with bows and .357s.
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