Evaluating your defensive weapon capability
09-17-2018, 08:02 AM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Aiken, South Carolina
Posts: 55
Evaluating your defensive weapon capability
Evaluating your weapons Terminal Ballistic Performance (TBP)
THE GREAT TRUTHS:
1. Never tug on Superman's Cape.
2. Never take a knife to a gunfight.
3. Never ever take a handgun to a rifle match.
4. General Nathan Bedford Forrests CSA quote for winning a fight, "Get there the firstest with the mostest."
The Army Surgeon General ordered a Wound Ballistic's Lab set up at the Presidio in 1981. Col. Martin Facker,MD was commander. Pigs were anesthetized (as being closest to duplicating the human body) and shot with various munitions and X rayed to determine wound trauma, bullet path, bullet integrity, penetration etc. They were then dispatched and sent to the dining for barbecues at the Presidio.
He quickly came to the conclusion that handgun rounds were worthless at producing permanent wound cavatation and most of them lacked enough penetration to get to where they would do the most good.
Fackler told me center fire rifle 6.5MM or larger would incapacitate an assailant quicker with a non lethal wound faster than a lethal wound from any handgun.
Then the disaster happened. In April 1986 in Miami Dade County Fla there was a shootout between 8 FBI Special Agents and to bank robbery suspects. Two agents were killed and five were wounded as one of the suspects was killed instantly and the other used a Mini 14 in 223.
Fackler's work was known by the FBI and there was a big conference at Quantico FBI facility Sept 15-17th 1987 to conduct a Wound Ballistics Workshop. Fackler sent me the minutes and I provided my original copy to the Assn of Firearms & Toolmarks Examiners (AFTE) who scanned it and published it on their site.
Here it is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19X...AxZYryvVEcxVTa
Below is the first sentence of the summary of the workshop.
"Wounding - Except for hits to the central nervous system (CNS) reliable and reproducible instant incapacitation is not possible with any handgun bullet."
There was a presenation at the Fed Law Enf Tng Center I attended. First shot fired was from a S&W Mod 59 using Winchester 9MM Silvertip ammo by an FBI Agent that struck one of the bank robbers in left side of thoracic cavity as he crawled out drivers window and penetrated his heart with no "instant incapacitation" thus allowing him to initiate and sustain fire for several minutes killing two agents and wounding five more.
The bad guy ran out of ammo, crawled back into his car, cranked it and was backing up to leave when one agent ran up to the side of his car and put one into his cranial vault. If FBI had used 6.5MM or larger lives and injuries would have been reduced if not eliminated.
PER THE CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATOR EVERY LAST FBI AGENT WOUNDED BY THE 223 MINI 14 DID NOT FIRE ANOTHER SHOT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE SHOOTOUT.
Fackler was asked by the FBI what the minimum round would require to accomplish sufficient penetration and Fackler ran the numbers and recommended 10MM but few women could handle the recoil and many guys could not and S&W came up with their 40 Cal as being close but less penetration.
From the Workshop Minutes: "Given equal penetration a bigger bullet will disrupt more tissue and hopefully cause greater bleeding. Barring a CNS hit incapacitation can only be forced by blood loss and that takes time as well as sufficient penetration to hit major blood vessels through intervening musculature, fat, clothing, arms etc." It was very clear that no handgun will produce such a wound.
Fackler basically said that it is extremely rare that a person sustaining a solid thoracic cavity wound from a high power rifle will survive. I know of no one that ever heard of such a person wounded in this manner surviving.
All the above is made more critical if one does not possess enough skill with a handgun to deliver a shot where it's needed in a hurry
Per the FBI Data on shootings I have read the vast majority of handgun shootings occur between 3 and 5 yards at night. I have never seen time/distance data on shootings with a rifle but Fackler determined the 5.56 rounds (M193/M855) lost lots energy when it passed 95 yards.
Obviously in a self defense scenario the first hit will generally determine the outcome so the idea is to develop accuracy first and then speed. US Border Patrolman Bill Jordan wrote a excellent book and he had some unique advice : "Take your time in a hurry.", "No one has ever been killed as the result of a loud noise." In other words misses don't help you, only hits count and with a handgun the miss factor is way up there. Thus threats surviving a hit from a handgun is pretty good but your missed shots will definitely lower the odds of your own survivability
Col Fackler told me that he had determined from the data he collected over the years that 75% of assailants will go down with one shot from about anything. NOT DIE, JUST COLLAPSE. The next 20% will take multiple shots and 5% will only be stopped by a round crushing or severing the spinal cord or penetration into the cranial vault with enough energy. He went on to say if they are on drugs the pain from the shots will not register in the brain and are very likely to be active/dangerous for several minutes.
I worked with a guy who shot a guy 7 times with 45 ACP dead center chest and he was still coming and he stopped him cold with 8th shot in the cranial vault. The thing you must remember is that if you shoot someone with a handgun don't be surprised if they don't react or run off.
Fackler said in the home the hands down best is a 12 ga shotgun with "Number 0 Buckshot" He went on to say the shotgun has a very limited effective range. I conducted testing with Buckshot on silhouette targets and at 25 yards the pattern will cover expand to about 16" to 20" and terminal performance is thus degraded.
The best training I have knowledge of was developed by Col Jeff Cooper USMC retd at his Gunsite Ranch Training Facility utilizing electronic timers.
Rifle: You put up one 6" paper plate at 25 yards and you stand with your rifle at the port arms ready and the timer beeps, you raise the rifle and you fire one shot as quick as you can in 1.5 seconds or less. You do this for five one shot runs. When you fire the timer hears the shot and stops and shows you elapsed time. You reset for each additional shot. If you do not fire in 1.5 seconds the shot is considered a miss. Obviously if there is no hole in the plate that is also a miss.
There is a second level, same target, same time requirement fired at 50 yards. Then the third level 10" plate, 2 seconds allowed at 100 yards.
Do a Bing search for "Art of the Rifle Snap Shot Rifle Test" That should bring up a youtube of this training.
Handgun: Put up a 6" paper plate at 7 yds. When timer beeps draw and fire one shot in 1.5 seconds or less. Most shootings occur at 3 to 5 yards at night per FBI data I have read. 10" plate at 25 yards in 2 seconds or less.
Fackler started the International Wound Ballistics Assn made up of MDs interested in TBP. Journals were published for several years, there were no ads in the Journals from any vendor. Our member fees paid for publishing them. Subscriptions were available and they have many very interesting articles. Obviously they were out of print many years ago with first issue Fall of 1992.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...3pWYVVJeGlGaFE
Copy and paste the above and you can download every issue published as they were all scanned by AFTE and you can download them all for free. If you read all of them you will gain an amazing knowledge of Wound Ballistics and evaluations. You might want to put these on a separate thumb drive.
THE GREAT TRUTHS:
1. Never tug on Superman's Cape.
2. Never take a knife to a gunfight.
3. Never ever take a handgun to a rifle match.
4. General Nathan Bedford Forrests CSA quote for winning a fight, "Get there the firstest with the mostest."
The Army Surgeon General ordered a Wound Ballistic's Lab set up at the Presidio in 1981. Col. Martin Facker,MD was commander. Pigs were anesthetized (as being closest to duplicating the human body) and shot with various munitions and X rayed to determine wound trauma, bullet path, bullet integrity, penetration etc. They were then dispatched and sent to the dining for barbecues at the Presidio.
He quickly came to the conclusion that handgun rounds were worthless at producing permanent wound cavatation and most of them lacked enough penetration to get to where they would do the most good.
Fackler told me center fire rifle 6.5MM or larger would incapacitate an assailant quicker with a non lethal wound faster than a lethal wound from any handgun.
Then the disaster happened. In April 1986 in Miami Dade County Fla there was a shootout between 8 FBI Special Agents and to bank robbery suspects. Two agents were killed and five were wounded as one of the suspects was killed instantly and the other used a Mini 14 in 223.
Fackler's work was known by the FBI and there was a big conference at Quantico FBI facility Sept 15-17th 1987 to conduct a Wound Ballistics Workshop. Fackler sent me the minutes and I provided my original copy to the Assn of Firearms & Toolmarks Examiners (AFTE) who scanned it and published it on their site.
Here it is: https://drive.google.com/open?id=19X...AxZYryvVEcxVTa
Below is the first sentence of the summary of the workshop.
"Wounding - Except for hits to the central nervous system (CNS) reliable and reproducible instant incapacitation is not possible with any handgun bullet."
There was a presenation at the Fed Law Enf Tng Center I attended. First shot fired was from a S&W Mod 59 using Winchester 9MM Silvertip ammo by an FBI Agent that struck one of the bank robbers in left side of thoracic cavity as he crawled out drivers window and penetrated his heart with no "instant incapacitation" thus allowing him to initiate and sustain fire for several minutes killing two agents and wounding five more.
The bad guy ran out of ammo, crawled back into his car, cranked it and was backing up to leave when one agent ran up to the side of his car and put one into his cranial vault. If FBI had used 6.5MM or larger lives and injuries would have been reduced if not eliminated.
PER THE CRIME SCENE INVESTIGATOR EVERY LAST FBI AGENT WOUNDED BY THE 223 MINI 14 DID NOT FIRE ANOTHER SHOT FOR THE REMAINDER OF THE SHOOTOUT.
Fackler was asked by the FBI what the minimum round would require to accomplish sufficient penetration and Fackler ran the numbers and recommended 10MM but few women could handle the recoil and many guys could not and S&W came up with their 40 Cal as being close but less penetration.
From the Workshop Minutes: "Given equal penetration a bigger bullet will disrupt more tissue and hopefully cause greater bleeding. Barring a CNS hit incapacitation can only be forced by blood loss and that takes time as well as sufficient penetration to hit major blood vessels through intervening musculature, fat, clothing, arms etc." It was very clear that no handgun will produce such a wound.
Fackler basically said that it is extremely rare that a person sustaining a solid thoracic cavity wound from a high power rifle will survive. I know of no one that ever heard of such a person wounded in this manner surviving.
All the above is made more critical if one does not possess enough skill with a handgun to deliver a shot where it's needed in a hurry
Per the FBI Data on shootings I have read the vast majority of handgun shootings occur between 3 and 5 yards at night. I have never seen time/distance data on shootings with a rifle but Fackler determined the 5.56 rounds (M193/M855) lost lots energy when it passed 95 yards.
Obviously in a self defense scenario the first hit will generally determine the outcome so the idea is to develop accuracy first and then speed. US Border Patrolman Bill Jordan wrote a excellent book and he had some unique advice : "Take your time in a hurry.", "No one has ever been killed as the result of a loud noise." In other words misses don't help you, only hits count and with a handgun the miss factor is way up there. Thus threats surviving a hit from a handgun is pretty good but your missed shots will definitely lower the odds of your own survivability
Col Fackler told me that he had determined from the data he collected over the years that 75% of assailants will go down with one shot from about anything. NOT DIE, JUST COLLAPSE. The next 20% will take multiple shots and 5% will only be stopped by a round crushing or severing the spinal cord or penetration into the cranial vault with enough energy. He went on to say if they are on drugs the pain from the shots will not register in the brain and are very likely to be active/dangerous for several minutes.
I worked with a guy who shot a guy 7 times with 45 ACP dead center chest and he was still coming and he stopped him cold with 8th shot in the cranial vault. The thing you must remember is that if you shoot someone with a handgun don't be surprised if they don't react or run off.
Fackler said in the home the hands down best is a 12 ga shotgun with "Number 0 Buckshot" He went on to say the shotgun has a very limited effective range. I conducted testing with Buckshot on silhouette targets and at 25 yards the pattern will cover expand to about 16" to 20" and terminal performance is thus degraded.
The best training I have knowledge of was developed by Col Jeff Cooper USMC retd at his Gunsite Ranch Training Facility utilizing electronic timers.
Rifle: You put up one 6" paper plate at 25 yards and you stand with your rifle at the port arms ready and the timer beeps, you raise the rifle and you fire one shot as quick as you can in 1.5 seconds or less. You do this for five one shot runs. When you fire the timer hears the shot and stops and shows you elapsed time. You reset for each additional shot. If you do not fire in 1.5 seconds the shot is considered a miss. Obviously if there is no hole in the plate that is also a miss.
There is a second level, same target, same time requirement fired at 50 yards. Then the third level 10" plate, 2 seconds allowed at 100 yards.
Do a Bing search for "Art of the Rifle Snap Shot Rifle Test" That should bring up a youtube of this training.
Handgun: Put up a 6" paper plate at 7 yds. When timer beeps draw and fire one shot in 1.5 seconds or less. Most shootings occur at 3 to 5 yards at night per FBI data I have read. 10" plate at 25 yards in 2 seconds or less.
Fackler started the International Wound Ballistics Assn made up of MDs interested in TBP. Journals were published for several years, there were no ads in the Journals from any vendor. Our member fees paid for publishing them. Subscriptions were available and they have many very interesting articles. Obviously they were out of print many years ago with first issue Fall of 1992.
https://drive.google.com/drive/folde...3pWYVVJeGlGaFE
Copy and paste the above and you can download every issue published as they were all scanned by AFTE and you can download them all for free. If you read all of them you will gain an amazing knowledge of Wound Ballistics and evaluations. You might want to put these on a separate thumb drive.
