Nomercy448

Yes, I have and do hunt with ML's.

No, I don't take "iffy shots" with my repeaters which I would not take with my ML's.

Pretty simple - I don't take "iffy shots."

Never have I had a firearm force me into an iffy shot, nor have I felt compelled to take one simply because I had a fast follow up.

So again - prove to me it is more about the gun than it is the shooter, and maybe your argument will hold water.

CalHunter

I think people that spray and pray (although I doubt they have sufficient mindset to actually pray) are likely to shoot fast without aiming, regardless of whether they have a high cap pistol, single stack, revolver or even just a single shot. People without fire discipline (aiming your shots) usually fire indiscriminately in practice and then panic to some degree in real life. It's kind of like buck fever but is a little more complex than that. Realistic training, lots of practice and good mental preparation is the key to resisting the urge to spray and pray.

Good mental preparation is especially important because not everybody handles stress the same way, particularly when it's your life that's on the line. That's just a fact of life, whether you're in combat, in a police shooting incident or a CCW shooting incident. Based on my experience, I would suggest that it's the mental preparation that causes "spray and pray" far more than how many rounds your pistol holds.

flags

Are you serious? I can't prove anything like that beyond a shadow of a doubt. I even admitted it is a general statement and a general statement, by definition, has exceptions and doesn't apply everywhere. If you bother reading you will see where I even admitted that. I also used the word "tend" several times. Now if you're having difficulty understanding that word allow me to give you the meaning of it:

Tend: regularly or frequently behave in a particular way or have a certain characteristic / be liable to possess or display (a particular characteristic).

Note the word tend is not an absolute. But since you seem to having some sort of issue I guess that I will just bow to your superior knowledge despite the fact that several members, including myself, have some actual experience in the matter while you openly admit you have none. But as is often the case, those with little or no experience seem to think they are experts so I bow down to you and accept the fact that I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.

Now I throw your challenge back at you: Prove to me, beyond a shadow of a doubt that a higher amount of ammo available DOES NOT lead to people shooting uncontrollably. Give me the proof in the same way you demand the proof. Can't do it can you?

younggun308

Y'all are hilarious.
More knowledgeable than I'm likely to be on these topics at any point in my life, but hilarious, nonetheless. You literally don't disagree, but are disagreeing, anyway.

hunters_life

Flags and NoMercy448, you are both correct. With some people, having an excessive amount of ammo available may lead to less worry about targeting while with others it may not. I only know how it affects me and my own shooting. I would have to imagine that anyone with good training would always try to keep in mind round count and target count. Good training leads to good decision making. Then you have the weekend warriors that panic and very well could fall into the misinformed mindset that a lot of rounds fired blindly will win. High ammo availability could in fact be part of their decision making process in the heat of the moment. Those people are the ones that will be lucky if they survive any encounter and so to will be any innocent by standers. And Flags, before you ask, yes sir I have had more than my fair share of engagements and it was not only my training that saved my bacon but also my mindset. The old man trained each and every one of his kids to be able to defend ourselves in just about any given situation. Hand to hand, knife to hand, or firefights, we all trained from very young ages to take any and all measures required to come out alive at the other end.

uncle matt

I am in agreement with Flegs on this one. Just like money, when you're loaded you tend to spend pretty freely and when funds are tight you really think about each purchase.

uncle matt

Also as the OP I would like to keep the subject on carrying the weapon and not home defense.

Nomercy448

I CAN AND HAVE provided proof that semiauto pistols do not cause the shooter to lose their inherent sense of trigger discipline and round management. I'm holding a loaded G19 at the range right now, and firing slow fire with one hand and typing this with the other.

The pistol isn't making me spray bullets without concern for connecting on target.

Proving exclusions is a lot easier than proving inclusions, in this case.

Pistols don't make people take bad shots. People who are prone to take bad shots may be more prone to use a pistol, but that's correlation, not causality.

I also asked you - knowing you HAVE been in military firefights using fully automatic weapons, AND knowing you are a shooter who holds a high trigger discipline and round management... Did carrying that autoloader FORCE you, the shooter pulling the trigger, to exhibit less target discipline?

My contention remains to be that an inanimate object cannot cause a shooter to lose their discipline.

Nomercy448

Where does the word "tend," or any synonym therefor appear in this statement? Being THIS is the original statement you made, and the particular one I made comment as being a ridiculous stereotypic statement which confuses correlation with causality, and propagates an unfortunate lie which sure sounds good to folks who don't know any better.

Champlain Islander

The spray and pray is further fostered by the media via the cop shows showing the common theme of the bad guys pulling out a fully auto and emptying clips shooting at parked cars while the cop is hiding behind it. The cop pops up and takes a single shot and drops the thug. Hollywood at it's finest. Another thing that makes me laugh is there is never recoil when it shows people shooting.