bronko22000

Same here with factory ammo. The only stuff I buy is rimfire. I did get a deal on 6 boxes of 7-08 ammo at a recent auction.(something like $5 a box) but only got that for the brass.

MudderChuck

My Styer SSG will shoot tight groups with the right ammo (it prefers 167 grn, PSPBT at around 2750 fps.) and letting the barrel cool between shots. The only thing I've done to it was a double set trigger, I didn't like the single set trigger it had. Still shoots well for a forty year old rifle.

The rifle shoots better than I do, most rifles shot better than the shooter. My groups may move around the ten ring a little, atmospherics, air temp. ect. But clover leafs are common.

I'm a hunter and the first shot is usually the only one that counts anyway.

Tufrthnails

This brings up a point I was trying to drive home with a buddy. we had went to the range and shot a bunch 60+ rounds fairly quickly with his hunting rifle (30-06). He was adjusting his zero the whole time trying to center punch the bull.

I told him he needed to let it sit and completely cool then send a round to verify zero. He said why it's zeroed. I told him his cold barrel would shoot quite a bit different then it did after all the shooting he had done his POI was different. He did listen to me and it was off by 2" at 100yrds.

MudderChuck

It's likely different rifle to rife, but my Styer will string the shots vertically when I shoot it hot, MOA isn't unusual with 4 or 5 quick shots. Likely a combination of the barrel moving a little and powder burn rate. I can compensate with hold off, it does it consistently and I know my rifle.

Point is knowing your rifle is important, you can compensate if you know in advance what is likely to happen.

olsaltydog

Think the last three posts touched on one of the most important aspects of shooting. Rifles are pretty stable in what they will do and why/how they do it when all variables are kept steady. The variable most unreliable is the shooter and many times are too quick to change other variables. I have either witnessed shooters swapping out to different ammo after just one box or making adjustments to zero as they shoot more and more. For whatever reason there is more need today for shooters to be taught or shown why it is important to sit down one range session at a time and learn their rifle and be as thorough as possible when testing to understand what they are actually doing.

Personal rule for myself is to take the one gun I am wanting to practice and learn about to the range with one type of ammo. I will sit and shoot that one setup for a while learning and understanding what is happening before I make any changes. If no changes are needed and things seem to be pretty steady and consistent then I may take out another couple boxes of another ammo brand to test and see how they perform. Shooters need to have a benchmark to compare sits against and need to learn to adjust the least amount of variables as possible. Consistency will be key

Tufrthnails

Agreed. I may bring a few rifles so I can let each cool during load testing between groups. I know reloading my own ammo has taught me a whole lot about how a specific rifle acts to the point I somewhat know what to expect with component changes. I can't tell you how many guys have come up to me at the range to ask what my rifle is and how much work have I done to it. And truly it really isn't the rifle it has pretty much been accurate it has may more to the amount of time I have spent getting to know it. Their are a few rifles like my Marlin lever action 30-30 that I just can't figure out how to get it to shoot better then 2MOA and not from lack of trying. Many of my friends shoot their rifles the week before they go hunting and wonder why they can't hit crap. One of the problems that I ran into was going from FL to KY to hunt. I lost around 120 fps on cold bore just going from temps in the 70's to the 20's and 30's. I spent a few weeks up there on the farm last year and took the time to develop a load up there and now I just keep some ammo up there at my cousin's place and build 50 rounds from that data when I get some down time on his gear.

super_hunt54

Tufr, About your Marlin, first off let me ask you the year make of it. Marlin went through a pretty tough time about 2 years before the Rem takeover and then about 5 years after the takeover. It was a pretty big gamble on whether or not you would get a good shooting rifle. If your model falls within those years, I would suggest you take it to a good smith that has good experience with lever guns and have him check out the action as well as head spacing and barrel square. Also check out your crown with a Mic to make sure it is concentric. Just a tiny bit off and that will throw your groups to the wind. Another thing you can try since you reload, is try the leverevolution powder and the FTX bullets. I haven't tried the powder yet but I use both the 160gr .30 cal FTX for a couple of my .30-30's and the 265gr for one of my .444 Marlins. The other one doesn't like those FTX's a bit but loves the Interlock. (personality of a rifle, go figure) I do intend to try that LE powder as it is claimed to be about 150-200 fps faster.

Tufrthnails

I got it used in 06. My brother has it right now at his house (he loves to shoot the thing). I have thought about taking it to a smith, but honestly I am thinking now about making it a bada$$ christmas present for him. He doesn't have any hunting rifles and he has either been using it or his father in laws .270. He makes a lot of sacrifices for his family so I think that is prob going to be the route I go. I may tell him to take it to a smith that I have used in the past to see what he can do. I have heard there were some not so good years so i really just figured it was my luck.

BTW I got my eye on a Henry 45-70 gov! I got to have a levergun in the safe it is unAmerican not too!!!!

super_hunt54

Yessireebobby! But before you "gift" it to him, try that load combo I gave you. It might just tighten that puppy up. Then you will be giving him a really good shooter! And give that crown a really good inspection too. Wear from someone cleaning it from the muzzle end can leave a very small wear spot which will effect your grouping. I've had a lot of lever guns come in with just that exact problem. I mean it's not THAT dang hard to drop the lever and extract the bolt on a Marlin! Takes me approximately 1 minute and I'm oldern dirt! But most people just don't think about it with lever guns. They think it takes a smith to break one down when a monkey with a flat head screwdriver can do it!

mrbb

OK In will throw into the mix a range story
I did a lot of range work over the yrs and way too much seat time at a lot as well

was a bunch of yrs back and at a public range,
I was sighting in some rifles for some customers.

I had my bench , one of 6 , had my complete bench set up with me, good rest spotting scope and basic's to make life easier for doing this!
I was far right side of things, so a lot of room to my left!
when in pulled up a brand new Suburban all loaded up with lift kit and chrome this and that
two guys get out smelling like a cologne factory, gold chains and designer clothing
and right off I see issue's LOL

they got out some very HIGH end gun case's a HUGE spotting scope, and some rolled up rags for a rest? HUMM<
they have them high end Custom wood weatherby rifles, and can hear the yapping to each other loud enough so I HAVE to hear them how they paid SO Much money for them and this and that
not knowing I could care less I guess?


well, I check to make sure there OK I shoot, and they say can I hold on while they run a few targets down range as they plan to sight in a few rifles today

I was OK< I;m in no rush

they take the two benches far left of me, a good say 60+ ft left of me and set up targets accordingly

we both set up to fire,
I shoot, a 3 shot group, and am happy with first riffle I have to do, was a almost a dead on , so got lucky with that one,
do a 5 shot group and then call it good enough for this customer's rifle!
put rifle away, and these morons haven't fired a shot yet??
still bragging to each other about how costly each item they have is??
mean time I am stuck waiting , as there wanting to shoot, just ??

so, I dig out gun number 2 and pt first away

and watch them in action, figuring this should be good
each has 3 rifles!
they proceed to shoot, one rifle, , ONE Shot, and then use next gun and shoot one shot and then third and one shot

I am watching and thinking WTH are they doing??

OK< time out, we go and check targets, I set up a new one for next gun and remove old one and find I have an extra hole in the target than I shot??
NOW I have my attention on them a little better

and again they are talking about HOW Great the one guy shot and how he shot 3 times and only has 2 holes, one must have been in the same hole
, NOPE< you shot my target once??
and I swear it wasn't on purpose

we shoot again, I take 3 shots for a group, and adjust and am good again, with 8 shots fired

I put gun away but don't watch them shot all of there 6 shots with 6 different rifles

again, we check targets and I have this time 2 extra holes and one guy is NOW bragging how he got all 3 of his shots in the same hole
and how his high end rifles are so awesome??

mean time other guy is complaining how his 3 are all over the target??


so this round I sit out shooting, to just watch these guys??
again, they have 3 rifles each and are taking one shot from each rifle and then swapping to different rifle

so when there done, I ask them, why they are shooting like that
first guy looks at me like a moron, and says, WHEN you sight in rifles you should always take a 3 shot group to do so??
HAHA
I should also had befre every shot they are making scope adjustments based on there last 3 shot group
ONLY they are NOT keeping track of where each different rifle shot<
rather using group as a way to adjust all three rifles scopes

I try to explain to them that I am a gun shop owner and shooting instructor and that, they are NOT shooting a 3 shot group doing what there doing, they need to shoot each rifle , ONE rifle at a time for 3 shots and THEN adjust if needed, not , 1 shots from 3 different rifles at same time??

as that is NOT a 3 shot group

well, this sends them into a rant about how they know better than me and that they have been doing this for 20+ yrs and they have killed game all over the world doing this and blah blah
I then, ask them if they realized they had also been shooting at MY target, as I kept getting extra holes in my target, thus why I sat this round out??

this pisses them off even more, saying I am a liar and I need my head examined as they know how to shoot better than I do?

and at this point I remember WHY I never really shoot at public ranges

but WOW< can you imagine shooting a target 50 + ft off and NOT knowing your that far off??

or that using 3 different rifles to shoot a 3 shot group ??

MAN< some of the folks out there with more money than brains, its almost scary

I mean I could see shooting another target as a joke or to screw with them, but these two, honestly I think had NO idea they were, heck the one guy missed his target 2 of his 3 shots and thought they all went in one hole??
and was still making scope adjustments between every shot on every rifle he fired??

SO< I bet if you asked these two, they would both say they have rifles that can shoot 1/2 inch or BETTER groups ALL day!!

OH well, sadly this is a true story, hope you enjoyed
and I also hope you all never hunt any where NEAR these guys! HAHA!
I asked where they hunt in PA< and they told me, Pike County!
I don't hunt there and happy to know that I won't see them in my area!