25-06 questions
 

I have a chance to trade a PSE dream season for a Marlin XL7 in 25-06. My questions are 1st How good of a round is the 25-06? I'll be hunting anything from bobcats up to elk if given the opportunity. I do have a lager caliber (7mag) if needed but was wanting to try something different. I hunt mainly in open grassland where the possibility of a 300 plus yard shot could present itself (just not that often) normally around 50 to 200 yrds.

2nd is the Marlin worth the trade? I've always wanted a 336 in 35 rem or 3030 but haven't heard much about their bolt actions.

and 3rd, the previous owner has spray painted the gun tan. Any idea how to remove the paint easily?

I can only speak of the 25/06. It is a great round and will serve you well. It's flat shooting with mild recoil. I've used mine for predators, hogs,and deer with great success.

I don't any experience with the Marlin but if you like the feel and look of the gun then it's a good call. I'm not to sure what would take the paint off the either.

get some gum cutter 2+2 at the parts store, make a rag wet with it, lay it on the painted surface for a minute or so, then wipe off what paint you can, repeat till the paint is gone, if its been on for a couple years, it may take several applications.

the 25/06 is a great round, but it will be hard on cats.
RR

I have experience with the Marlin XL-7, and experience with 25-06, but have not shot a Marlin XL-7 in 25-06. The Marlin XL/X'XS model series is an outstanding value in it's category of budget bolt rifles, and performs much better than 1 would expect from a rifle with such a low price point. I've had 2, and bought 1 for a close friend after his firearms was lost, and didn't have anything to hunt with & needed until he could get his collection replaced. In fact, the Marlin X series was in MY opinion, THE best value among the budget bolt category until Ruger came out with the American rifle. Now I prefer the Ruger American but there's nothing wrong with the Marlins, and they still shoot as they did before Ruger came out with the American.

The 25-06 is a fast stepper with a impressively flat trajectory from a non magnum cartridge. I've seen some pretty impressive deer kills with the 25-06. If I was you, I'd grab it and RUN! It's a favorite among Pronghorn hunters due to it's flat trajectory and mild recoil. Any good stripper or mild solvent should remove the paint.

No experience with the marlin but have always heard positives on any review. The .25-06 is a great round and should do what you need it to do. I think I'm re-barreling a .270 to .25-06 later this year.
-Jake

My son bought two of the Marlin X-7's a couple of years ago, they were on sale and stainless. One is a 30-06, the other is a 25-06. He has scoped the 25-06 and uses it for deer hunting. He loves it. I read an article a few years ago where they tested four or five bolt actions against each other as to accuracy. The X-7 came out on top by a good margin. It is a good gun and 25-06 is a popular choice.

I have never elk hunted, but I would use at least a 30-06 or 7MM on them. I know that many have been killed with a 30-30 and the 25-06 would kill one but I would use something bigger just to be sure.

I like the .25-06 but really don't see the need for it over a .270 myself. With the .270 you have more bullet choices as well as heavier bullet weight options. With the right powder/bullet combination you could easily match the .25-06 and even surpass it. The lighter recoil of the .25-06 is about the only thing that stands it above the .270 by any margin. Better rifle for those folks that are recoil shy or have shoulder injuries making them sensitive to harder kicking cartridges. As far as using it for Elk, get the heaviest and best SD bullet on the market for the .25-06 and make dang sure you put that bullet where it's supposed to go and it should be fine. I think about the heaviest bullet for .257cal is 120gr which is a bit light for Elk sized game but again, well constructed bullet put where it's supposed to go will be an Elk on the ground.

The 25-06 is good for medium sized game but in my opinion (based on taking 25 elk myself and seeing more than 100 others taken) it is a little on the light side for elk. Not saying it won't work. I've even seen 2 elk shot with the 25-06 and they both ended up on the game pole. But those were taken by guys that lived in elk country and they waited for a perfect broadside shot and were able to pass on questionable shots since they had the whole season to hunt. Additionally both the elk I saw shot with the 25-06 were cows and not mature bulls. Anyone that has hunted elk will tell you there is a world of difference between the 2.

All that being said, the 25-06 is a legal elk caliber (at least in my native CO) and it will work. But there are better choices (like the 7mm Mag you say you have). if you want to use the 25-06 use a premium bullet and pick you shots with the understanding you may need to pass on some shots. I wouldn't try to bust the front shoulder with it not would I try to bunch the bullet through the paunch from a quartering away shot. But on a broadside shot through the ribs it will kill any elk alive.

Nooooooo!!!! Don't do it!!! :hit::hit::hit::hit:

I've just lost interest in the .270 lol.
-Jake

Jake, 6.5/06 AI, you'll be impressed
RR

+1 there. Much bigger bullet selection and better performance. May kick a bit harder than the .25-06 depending on rifle and load but not much. I'm actually thinking about building one of those myself. I have a couple K98 actions laying around here somewhere :D I could probably get close to matching ballistics from the 6.5-284 with a little TLC at the reloading bench. Either that or a Gibbs :D But since I don't shoot game over 400 yards a Gibbs would be more or less a paper toy.

speaking from experience, I don't think the gibbs after all is said and done is worth the 100-120 fps more MV. its an awesome cartridge but the difference is not worth the agrivation making cases
RR

RR, I'd need to fireform brass for that right? Right now I need something simple. Between the family, work, and continued training my time is pretty limited. I haven't done any reloading since last summer even other than for pistols which I shoot allot more and have to reload for to keep shooting.... So I'd like to keep it simple and something I can reload easily or even buy factory ammunition if need be.

I'm not 100% on the .25-06, just have always been a fan. And as I said, just a little bored with the .270. This rifle isn't needed for anything, just something different.
-Jake

jake, step by step how to make brass for a 6.5/06 AI
take a 25/06 brass
prime, don't even resize
put in a max 6.5/06 powder charge
seat any boattail 6.5 bullet
shoot it, out pops a fully formed 6.5/06 AI brass, though your first loads won't be full power in the AI, the 6.5/06 is no slouch, will pick up another 100-125 fps after you shoot them once. it is the easiest wildcat there is to get brass.
some AI shooters swear you can load them to max right off the bat cause all your doing is changing the shoulder angle.
RR

That's pretty simple. I'll do some reading tonight. Thanks.
-Jake

Or you could use the cream of wheat method to fire form. Good bit cheaper and you wouldn't need a range with a back stop. I'm pretty sure you can form the shoulders in an AI chamber with it. But you need a really super fast powder and you will have to experiment a bit to get the right powder load to form the cases properly. Most people, myself included, use a fast pistol or shotgun powder (small charge) and fill the rest up with cream of wheat then plug the case mouth with a wad of some sort. (disclaimer- NEVER USE A PISTOL OR SHOTGUN POWDER FOR RIFLE LOADS UNDER A BULLET UNLESS YOU WANT TO SEE YOUR RIFLE BLOW UP. THIS METHOD IS FOR CASE FORMING ONLY AND NOT TO BE USED IN CONJUNCTION WITH A BULLET OF ANY KIND) I figure you already know that Jake but there are those that come on here that may not know that little problem so thought it best to write out that disclaimer.

Don't use cream of wheat, use cornmeal, a lot less abrasive, recommended charge for '06 based cases and the one I use to form the gibbs is 11 gr of unique. just just changing the shoulder angle fireforming is not needed like it is with the gibbs due to not only changing the shoulder angle but moving it foreward approx. 1/8th inch.
RR

the great thing about the method I described to jake is, you can use those rounds for hunting, its not burning powder for nothing, you can develop all your data then just change the MV to match full power loads and your off.
RR

I have a few wildcat cartridges
many are easy to make
my .30 hart, I can simply fire .300 wby rounds right out of gun and have fire formed brass when I am done, and they will shoot OK accurate as well??

I also have done the corn meal, forget off hand my magic mix,(haven't made any in a few yrs now)but its just a few grains of powder NOT a full charge, a primer some corn meal(have that weight out too, forget amount),and then sticka loose fitting patch in the top to hold mix in
and fire
works great
BUT the bigger issue is, it makes cleaning the gun added pain here
when I shot a LOT of wild cats , I had extra actions and short bbls chambered to JUST be used to fire form brass
could make a LOT of brass sitting on my bench then! and NO need to clean my rifle

wild cat cartridges are NICE and fun way to kill time, but to be honest, I have YET to NOT been able to hold my own at any range with factory chambered calibers and brass
been shooting 1,000+ yrds in matches and for fun for over 30+ yrs
owned a LOT of the latest and greats fad calibers, from small fast to .50 bmg's
in single shots and repeaters for range work.
out FAR weather has the bigger factor IMO than ANY caliber! some days bigger heavier bullets win that game, some lighter faster does!

BACK to the 25-06
nice caliber, BUT tends to be hard on barrels as to OTHER calibers
all the more so if your always loading to the max

a way better deer caliber/sheep, than bigger game IMO too!

OH and forgot to mention
a DRAW back to shooting full charged loads out of a mod chamber, is you also have MUCH higher risks of splitting necks on case, more stress there, and lower life of cases can happen!
plus chamber wear increases as every one splits!
so?

Put the crack pipe down buddy!
RR

LOL easy there RR. But I agree there is some anomalies there in his little post. #1, what good is fire forming brass to ANOTHER chamber? The whole point of fire forming is to have your brass dimensions MATCHING the chamber dimensions of the rifle you are shooting.

As far as case life, that's why you anneal! Start out with decent NEW brass, fire form, neck size only, and anneal. You will find your brass will last as long as the primer pocket lasts. I find the pet load each barrel likes and load up at minimum 200 rounds for my "hunting" rifles that only get shot enough to stay proficient with that particular rifle and for my paper toys I load up around 1000. I have brass for a couple of my rifles that are on their 8th reload and showing absolutely no signs of wear. One being rounds for my AR 10 in 7mm-08 that are loaded on the pretty hot side. That WAS my longer range hog rifle (had a AR 10 .338fed built for that extra OUCHIE at 400 yards) and has taken approximately 450 hogs and a couple thousand paper shots through it. No split necks yet and zero throat erosion. You set your OAL correctly and fire form you will get less gas cutting (I.E. what causes throat erosion). Now SOME caliber/cartridge combinations are just flat out hell on a throat no matter how close of tolerances you load for like a .220 swift or any of the other large cartridge small caliber bullet combinations but you can extend barrel life through close tolerance loading and fire forming.

Ya, that is really nice. Especially when every penny counts. That's much simpler than I thought it would be.
-Jake

I'm gonna start a new thread on this topic so that I don't continue to hijack the OPs thread. I have a few more questions.
-Jake

I don't smoke crack there??
and when shooting full charged load that cause the case to expand, there is a chance of case separation as it forms the new chamber??
this isn't made up info
as for anneal brass YES
but again,
I am stating that fire forming NEW factory loaded ammo to a MOD chamber, , your NOT having the chance to anneal it, as its live loaded ammo!

as for why I used a separate chamber, it was to just get brass formed, and NOT spec MY rifle I planned to use it in, BUT darn close
and after that once loaded in my shooting rifle, it was then formed to MY chamber on THAT rifle

I simply used the extra chamber to fire form brass and NOT fill my barrel with corn meal!
there was a reason to my madness(as I guess you see it as??)

I learned this from Bobby Hart, of Hart Rifles A man that kinda knows a LOT about guns?? and wild cat calibers
been a good friend of his, his dad and his Grandfather(many moons ago when he was still with us)
and DON"T think it was bad advice or practice!
worked for me??

Makes a bit more sense there when you state the use of factory ammo first. It's a rare occasion that I start with factory ammo. I buy my components and build my rounds from scratch. As far as case head separation and neck splitting goes, it's rare unless you are trying to fire form a .25-06 case to a 6.5 Gibbs or something like that where there would be a ton of forming to do under stress. Moderate shoulder bump from a .25-06 to a 6.5-06 AI would put very little stress on the case.

This makes no sense, Bob Hart did not teach this, the only chambers you should be able to shoot factory ammo in are AI chambers for the parent cartridges, and an odd custom chamber here and there that are purposely built close enough to a factory chamber (IE 223 wylde in a 223 rem/5.56)
If you are talking an AI chamber, it is headspaced .004" shorter than the parent case so there is no chance of separation due to excessive headspace, more separations occur in factory chambers due to folks unknowingly from incorrect die settings than in a custom min spec chamber.
RR

I was again talking about what I DID with my .30 hart and 300 wby caliber FACTORY ammo, and cases to get me MY brass for my .30 Hart
and IT was taught to me By Bobby Hart
been a long time friend of his most of my life!
so I am NOT talking AI chambers
or ALL wild cat calibers by any means

BUT the fact a chamber and a short bbl can be used to fire form brass, to get you fire formed brass??
this is a FACT< and again what I was saying I also DID, but it CAN be done on any caliber you are fire forming to MAKE brass
it will AGAIN NOT be fired formed to your exact Chamber, BUT it will be fire formed Brass of the caliber at hand
NOT sure why some folks like to be so???
to ONLY there way??
Life isn't that difficult if you keep an open mind!!
there are a lot of ways to make the same things in life many times??

25-06 is a good caliber for deer and varmits. not sure about the marlin rifle. mine was a Remington 700 and it is still killing deer. sold it to my brother for one of his boys. he still thanks me for that rifle. loaded down with 75 or 85 grain bullets will do a number on groundhogs. 117 grain bullets will do the same on deer. nosler partitions would be a good bullet for deer also although I never used them.