Break in?
10-14-2003, 09:17 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 11
Break in?
I am the new owner of a Savage 111 .270, I found no mention of " breaking in" the gun in the owners manual, but have seen it mentioned here.
if you had a brand new rifle.... how would you " break it in" ?
thanks,
[8D]
if you had a brand new rifle.... how would you " break it in" ?
thanks,
[8D]
10-14-2003, 10:59 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Western Nebraska
Posts: 3,393
RE: Break in?
" break in" is a non proven issue!
I use an alcohol mop (patches will do) and scrub the barrel to insure that it' s free of oils. Take it to the range and sight it in. Forget about break in.....even the benchrest community hasn' t proven the value.
I use an alcohol mop (patches will do) and scrub the barrel to insure that it' s free of oils. Take it to the range and sight it in. Forget about break in.....even the benchrest community hasn' t proven the value.
10-14-2003, 11:04 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: VA USA
Posts: 570
RE: Break in?
I' ve used various " break in" procedures through the years but I gave up on them all, and I' ve always been an accuracy nut. I give a new barrel a good cleaning to remove any shavings or oils and take it to the range and shoot it. My personal opinion is more barrels are harmed than helped by many of the break in methods.
10-14-2003, 11:49 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tahlequah, Oklahoma
Posts: 2,584
RE: Break in?
One fella on here told me how he does it and ive seen his groups and they are inpressive. Doesnt mean it works but its not hard how he does it so i dont think it hurts. He takes j-b bore paste and does 200 strokes to the barrel with a cleaning jag (new patch every 50). Then cleans the barrel out and takes it to the range and sights it in. Just make sure u dont over heat your barrel when shooting it. Good luck.
10-14-2003, 12:01 PM
#5
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,051
RE: Break in?
Working for a Police Department, I asked a swat team sniper how they break their' s in. He gave me the run down on it and I went to the range.
I fired a three shot group out of a new Browning Stainless Stalker (no boss) from 100 yards w/ Federal Premium ammo. It measured 1.220" .
I then started following his break in procedures which is basically;
Rounds 1-25
1 round - clean after each round.
Rounds 26-50
3 rounds - clean after each set.
Rounds 51-100
5 rounds - clean after each set.
Make sure barrel also cools between each set of shots.
After performing this pain in the butt task, the same ammo then shot 3/4" groups from that rifle. So, I think it does help if you want that kind of accuracy. I' ve followed that regimen ever since. Although I admit to not checking accuracy at the start with other rifles (wanted to get the break in over with).
Just my experiences and .02 cents.
I fired a three shot group out of a new Browning Stainless Stalker (no boss) from 100 yards w/ Federal Premium ammo. It measured 1.220" .
I then started following his break in procedures which is basically;
Rounds 1-25
1 round - clean after each round.
Rounds 26-50
3 rounds - clean after each set.
Rounds 51-100
5 rounds - clean after each set.
Make sure barrel also cools between each set of shots.
After performing this pain in the butt task, the same ammo then shot 3/4" groups from that rifle. So, I think it does help if you want that kind of accuracy. I' ve followed that regimen ever since. Although I admit to not checking accuracy at the start with other rifles (wanted to get the break in over with).
Just my experiences and .02 cents.
10-14-2003, 03:08 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: VA USA
Posts: 570
RE: Break in?
Danny,
I' d have been interested to see what the groups would have been just after firing that many rounds without the breakin procedure. I' m not saying the break in didn' t work, I' m just curious how much the shooting would have smoothed the barrel on it' s own.
I' d have been interested to see what the groups would have been just after firing that many rounds without the breakin procedure. I' m not saying the break in didn' t work, I' m just curious how much the shooting would have smoothed the barrel on it' s own.
10-14-2003, 07:10 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Darien, IL
Posts: 6,744
RE: Break in?
It' s a gun barrel not an internal combustion engine!
You would have to fire hundreds, thousands of rounds to do any kind of " break in" .
Firing rounds, cleaning, firing, cleaning really ain' t gonna do anything to the barrel as far as " lapping it in" . The bullets are far too much softer than the barrel to do any final " machining" or " barrel reaming" .
Right? It don' t take a genius to know that the barrel had better be the hardest (by far) material in the equation here.
One thing for sure on " break in" . Don' t try to shoot too far at fist, up you shot yardages little by little. Or you' ll burn out the barrel.
Uncle Matt (in IL)
You would have to fire hundreds, thousands of rounds to do any kind of " break in" .
Firing rounds, cleaning, firing, cleaning really ain' t gonna do anything to the barrel as far as " lapping it in" . The bullets are far too much softer than the barrel to do any final " machining" or " barrel reaming" .
Right? It don' t take a genius to know that the barrel had better be the hardest (by far) material in the equation here.
One thing for sure on " break in" . Don' t try to shoot too far at fist, up you shot yardages little by little. Or you' ll burn out the barrel.
Uncle Matt (in IL)
10-14-2003, 07:37 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Body in SE WI, mind in U.P.
Posts: 4,781
RE: Break in?
To paraphrase the late great barrel maker and benchrest shooter, Gail McMillan, barrel break in is a myth made up by barrel makers to get you to waste some of the barrels life. If a barrel is worth 1000 shots of superb accuracy before declining, it would behoove a barrel maker to have you waste the first 100 shots doing something that is of no benifit to the shooter.
3 shot groups? They are only statistically a little better at determining a rifle' s capability or limitations than 2 shot groups. IF you shot several 3 shot groups or better yet a 10 shot group, you would have a better representation. Even with 5 shot groups you sometimes tend to get tight sub moa 3 shot clusters with 2 ' flyers' which really are not anomolies.
3 shot groups? They are only statistically a little better at determining a rifle' s capability or limitations than 2 shot groups. IF you shot several 3 shot groups or better yet a 10 shot group, you would have a better representation. Even with 5 shot groups you sometimes tend to get tight sub moa 3 shot clusters with 2 ' flyers' which really are not anomolies.
10-14-2003, 08:10 PM
#9
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma
Posts: 1,051
RE: Break in?
Danny,
I' d have been interested to see what the groups would have been just after firing that many rounds without the breakin procedure. I' m not saying the break in didn' t work, I' m just curious how much the shooting would have smoothed the barrel on it' s own.
I' d have been interested to see what the groups would have been just after firing that many rounds without the breakin procedure. I' m not saying the break in didn' t work, I' m just curious how much the shooting would have smoothed the barrel on it' s own.
One thing I noticed is, cleaning got easier and easier the further into the break in period I got.
As far as the barrel being the hardest material in the equation, well no kidding. I' d hope so. But, I do also feel that the combination of heat and bullet travel can help clean up the " slight imperfections" that is common in any machining operation. Why do some of the best rifle builders fire lap, or hand lap their barrels? It' s to get rid of those machining marks. Steel is hard, but it can be scratched. If it can be scratched, it can be smoothed out.
Like I said earlier, this is all my experience. I' ll keep doing it because I believe in it, not because some manufacturer is going to get rich off selling me new barrels. 100 rounds isn' t going to hurt anything, and will hardly make a dent in the barrel' s life expectancy.
10-15-2003, 11:54 AM
#10
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 77
RE: Break in?
The primary benefit of barrel breakin is easier cleaning. Improved accuracy is secondary and very hard to determine. Most people tend to describe the breakin process and not the goal which is a polished bore that cleans very quickly.
I was taught to clean the bore completely before each shot until the cleaning almost suddenly begins to go much quicker. Such things as fire lapping and J-B bore cleaner should speed the process. The point is that the microscopic burrs in the bore left from the rifling process must be removed to stop copper collection at these tiny burrs. If the bullet does not remove a burr, it will leave a tiny bit of copper and thus protect the burr from the next bullet fired and collect more copper. A thorough removal of all fouling, especially copper, before the next shot leaves those burrs exposed and therefore subject to the lapping effect of the next bullet.
The number of shots needed to breakin a given barrel are strictly dependent on the barrel' s smoothness to start with. Factory barrels are generally quite rough and take quite a bit of breakin shooting. A couple of Shilen barrels I' ve used broke in with under ten shots. IMO, barrel breakin is probably not worth the trouble with a factory hunting rifle as barrel cleaning is generally a once a year issue and the breakin shots will be excessive. A varmint or bench rest rifle however is surely worth the trouble of a proper breakin as it is often cleaned a few times in an afternoon of shooting. I hope this helps.
I was taught to clean the bore completely before each shot until the cleaning almost suddenly begins to go much quicker. Such things as fire lapping and J-B bore cleaner should speed the process. The point is that the microscopic burrs in the bore left from the rifling process must be removed to stop copper collection at these tiny burrs. If the bullet does not remove a burr, it will leave a tiny bit of copper and thus protect the burr from the next bullet fired and collect more copper. A thorough removal of all fouling, especially copper, before the next shot leaves those burrs exposed and therefore subject to the lapping effect of the next bullet.
The number of shots needed to breakin a given barrel are strictly dependent on the barrel' s smoothness to start with. Factory barrels are generally quite rough and take quite a bit of breakin shooting. A couple of Shilen barrels I' ve used broke in with under ten shots. IMO, barrel breakin is probably not worth the trouble with a factory hunting rifle as barrel cleaning is generally a once a year issue and the breakin shots will be excessive. A varmint or bench rest rifle however is surely worth the trouble of a proper breakin as it is often cleaned a few times in an afternoon of shooting. I hope this helps.