Massive Remington Trigger Replacement Possible In Proposed Court Settlement
#41
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
The best part of this entire story is that this recall is supposedly (not officially announced anywhere) replacing the Walker triggers with X-Mark Pro triggers, WHICH ARE UNDER RECALL THEMSELVES!!!!
We make the assumption that the "fixed" XMP triggers are now "safe," but then again, when they designed the Walker trigger, they made the assumption that it was safe, and when they designed the XMP trigger, they made the assumption that they were safe too... And we make the assumption that the Ruger Redhawk 44mag was designed as "safe," but a manufacturing defect saw a "safe" design launch plenty of barrels down range. We make the assumption that the Ruger 10/17 mag was designed as "safe," but a bunch of them ended up blowing their mags apart because they recoiled out of battery too fast...
So I can understand the hesitation of a lot of folks to have their Walker trigger rifles "fixed," because they may very well end up with something that's no more safe than the devil they know...
We make the assumption that the "fixed" XMP triggers are now "safe," but then again, when they designed the Walker trigger, they made the assumption that it was safe, and when they designed the XMP trigger, they made the assumption that they were safe too... And we make the assumption that the Ruger Redhawk 44mag was designed as "safe," but a manufacturing defect saw a "safe" design launch plenty of barrels down range. We make the assumption that the Ruger 10/17 mag was designed as "safe," but a bunch of them ended up blowing their mags apart because they recoiled out of battery too fast...
So I can understand the hesitation of a lot of folks to have their Walker trigger rifles "fixed," because they may very well end up with something that's no more safe than the devil they know...
#42
I've handled a few, and bought a few, of the new manufacture Remlins that are pretty well on par with the late model JM Marlins made in the last years at Connecticut.
But there were, without a doubt, a lot of growing pains when Remington first took over. I was in the market for a 3rd Marlin 1895 Guide Gun (or SBL) for a couple years before I found one in proper form to bring home. I saw a couple on the shelf that I didn't even consider safe to fire, let alone terrible fitment of the stocks, or even mismatching colors between the forend and the buttstock. I even saw one 1895 (blued and long barrel, so I had no interest) that had a checkered buttstock and a slick forend!
Luckily for the Marlin brand and my beloved 1894 and 1895 rifles, Remington seems to have gotten their act together.
Now, as for the quality of finish on the SPS's and ADL's, well, that's another story... I have every confidence that it will withstand the years, but when a gun's finish starts life looking like a dogs @sshole, you know it won't ever look any better than that...
#43
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
NM448---I was just relating what many people were saying about Marlins and it's good to hear what you stated about newer ones. I about spit my Pepsi when I read that last comment of yours about a gun's finish starting out looking like a dog's a....
#45
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Pa.
Posts: 502
I,m a Coke drinker and I gag when I hear the word Pepsi. Seriously though,you are right on.These Rifles were discharging when they were new with no chance to get dirty and out of adjustment.I know ours did and those other comments that were posted just ignore em,I did.
#46
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
I,m a Coke drinker and I gag when I hear the word Pepsi. Seriously though,you are right on.These Rifles were discharging when they were new with no chance to get dirty and out of adjustment.I know ours did and those other comments that were posted just ignore em,I did.
#47
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
I just saw this on another well known and respected hunting website I frequent and felt it may change some people's idea that there is nothing wrong with the Remingtons. Here is the post that I C/Pd:
On Black Friday I got up early and made it to the Wal Mart in Laurel Montana. In the back room was my new model 700 adl 223. Well a few minutes later we went home together.
A few minutes ago I contacted the Remington recall number and spoke to a nice young lady. I gave her my serial number and it had been in for the recall in September. I then asked her if it was normal for the firing pin to release if I lifted the bolt handle and then let it down but not move the bolt back...........There was a long pause She transferred me to the service dept. I spoke to a guy "also professional" and told him of the problem. He said send it back that's not right. I asked him if a Timney trigger would fix the issue. He said yes that should take care of it. On a side note I asked him if the adl synthetic stock should be free floated. He said, no not on a adl the stock will not free float correctly and suggested a aftermarket stock if I wanted it free floated. I thanked him for his candid answers and then concluded the call.
So the moral of my story is you can follow the recall and still have a possible problem. At this point I think a Timney trigger is in my future.
I also want to thank the employee's of Remington for their help.
On Black Friday I got up early and made it to the Wal Mart in Laurel Montana. In the back room was my new model 700 adl 223. Well a few minutes later we went home together.
A few minutes ago I contacted the Remington recall number and spoke to a nice young lady. I gave her my serial number and it had been in for the recall in September. I then asked her if it was normal for the firing pin to release if I lifted the bolt handle and then let it down but not move the bolt back...........There was a long pause She transferred me to the service dept. I spoke to a guy "also professional" and told him of the problem. He said send it back that's not right. I asked him if a Timney trigger would fix the issue. He said yes that should take care of it. On a side note I asked him if the adl synthetic stock should be free floated. He said, no not on a adl the stock will not free float correctly and suggested a aftermarket stock if I wanted it free floated. I thanked him for his candid answers and then concluded the call.
So the moral of my story is you can follow the recall and still have a possible problem. At this point I think a Timney trigger is in my future.
I also want to thank the employee's of Remington for their help.
#48
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Eastern wv
Posts: 3,650
I hae this gun at home
It was built in 1846, It belonged to my grandfather, its 45 cal, 44" barrel 1.25" across the flats. It has a double set trigger,if you adjust it and give the sear all the engagement it can possibly have it breaks at 4oz. pull.
In todas world if there were 7.8 million of these out there, how many folks would have them "misfire" as you call it, so is it something wrong with the trigger, or something wrong with people deaming the trigger unsafe?
any mechanical device is prone to being out of adjustment, broken, or worn, being able to determine something is amiss and what we do about it determines how unsafe it is.
do you fix it or take it to someone qualified? or do you put it back in the safe and never use it, or just sell it to the unsuspecting public?
RR
It was built in 1846, It belonged to my grandfather, its 45 cal, 44" barrel 1.25" across the flats. It has a double set trigger,if you adjust it and give the sear all the engagement it can possibly have it breaks at 4oz. pull.
In todas world if there were 7.8 million of these out there, how many folks would have them "misfire" as you call it, so is it something wrong with the trigger, or something wrong with people deaming the trigger unsafe?
any mechanical device is prone to being out of adjustment, broken, or worn, being able to determine something is amiss and what we do about it determines how unsafe it is.
do you fix it or take it to someone qualified? or do you put it back in the safe and never use it, or just sell it to the unsuspecting public?
RR
#49
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,143
Did Walker ever disclose what made the trigger unsafe? Because this statement: In a 1946 memo, he warned of a "theoretical unsafe condition" involving the gun's safety-the mechanism that's supposed to keep the rifle from firing accidentally..., leaves a whole lot of speculation!
Last edited by jerry d; 12-09-2014 at 05:07 PM.
#50
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
Yes Jerry, and you should be able to google his interview and watch it. He supposedly lost his Remington pension for violating a court order for speaking out about it, but I can't confirm that. Some will never admit that the design increases the chance of a misfire even after watching the inventor discuss it though! The post I C/Pd a few minutes ago is very revealing and I hope you read it because that dispels the theory that it only causes problems if someone tinkers with it or doesn't keep it clean when that one was brand new, had never been fired, and records showed that it had even been back to the factory for the other recall and was still defective. If people do what RR mentioned in his previous post I wouldn't argue at all that it would be their fault. I also have a percussion 50 caliber rifle that I just took out this evening during our 3 week ML deer season and it has a double set trigger. It's the only rifle in my safes that is used to hunt with that has a very low pull weight. I have it set at less than 6 ozs. because it's always at half cock and isn't ever brought to full cock until it's up and pointing at a target or deer. I also keep my finger out of the trigger guard and take my glove off before I plan to shoot it because of that low setting. One of these days now that I'm getting older I'll probably set it up to about 3 pounds like all my centerfire rifles are set at, but if I make a mistake with it that would certainly be my fault and not the manufacturer.