Help Understanding Shotgun Chokes
 

I'll just be honest, Iv'e been target shooting and hunting Whitetail my whole life and I never once heard anyone talk about choke tubes on a Shotgun, but then again the people who I hunt with only deer hunt so I guess Choke Tubes don't mean anything as far as that goes.

This year im going to take up bird hunting as well as turkey hunting. I have done a bit of research online about what type of equipment I will need and such, and I keep seeing the word Turkey Choke, modified choke, etc. I'm so extremely confused by this. I understand what the purpose of a choke is, to keep the spread tighter, but I have absolutely no clue what to get, or if the shotgun I have even has a choke tube in.

I just have a Remington 870 Express 20 guage. I put my finger in the barrel, I can feel a thread like texture, but im not sure if its the choke or just the rifled barrel. I went to the store and bought a box of Winchester Super X Upland and Small Game Ammunition. 2 3/4 inches, 1210 Velocity, 7/8 oz, 7 1/2 shot. I stood no further than about 10 yards away from the target, and the spread barely hit the target! It was way off to the right.

Is this normal? I mean, I never bird hunted and I know all you need is for just one of the pellets to connect, but I feel like they should be a bit tighter, especially at that distance.

So I want to bird hunt and Turkey hunt, what should I do? I don't really have the $$$ to just go buy another Shotgun right now, I can buy a choke but I just have no clue what to get. Do I need a separate choke for bird hunting and a separate choke for turkey hunting? Or is there a Choke that will work for both? what kind of ammo should I be getting? Etc.

Anything information what so ever will be HIGHLY appreciated!

Ask for George;

http://www.trulockchokes.com/

Is it a rifled barrel, or a smoothbore barrel? If you shine a flashlight into the breech and look down the barrel, is it rifled the full length, or not?

Shooting an internally threaded shotgun without a choke installed is not good. You will destroy your threading, damage your barrel, destroy the resale value of your firearm, plastic foul badly, and potentially cause a plastic build up that could cause a wad stall, and subsequent shot to blow up your firearm.

Cease and desist.

Shine a flashlight into the muzzle. If it's threaded for a choke, and the choke isn't present, you'll be able to see distinct threading within the first few inches of the muzzle. Looking end on at the muzzle, you'll also be able to see a "tube in a tube" at the end if the choke is installed. If it's a rifled barrel, then you'll see rifling the entire length of the bore.

Shooting shot out of a rifled barrel isn't recommended, for a variety of reasons. Primarily, because there is no constriction in the choke in a rifled barrel, which expands your spread, and the rotation of the shot is thought to "doughnut" your pattern.

You can't rely upon just "one pellet to connect" while bird hunting. In competitive clay shooting, we call that "the golden pellet", to mean that that ONE pellet was incredibly lucky. You DO need a better pattern.

How big was the spread at 10yrds? It should still be very small.

For upland hunting, you'll likely want an Improved or Modified choke. For turkey, you likely will want a Full or X-full choke. For upland shot, I run 7 1/2's or 8's, for turkey shot, I run 5's.

If you can feel the threads, there is no choke tube in your barrel. The interior of the muzzle is threaded to accept a choke tube. You have to insert the choke tube into the barrel and screw it in. The fact that you pattern spread so much at close range, also indicates you have no choke tube. If none came with the gun, you need to go out and buy a couple. By the way, don't use your gun without a choke tube in it. If you wreck those threads or dent the thin barrel wall at the muzzle, you'll never get a tube in.

Great advice this far.

You will need at least two different chokes. One for Turkey Hunting and one for Bird Hunting. Fortunately, they aren't too expensive. Chokes come as follows:

1) Improved Cylinder - wide pattern shortest range. Good for hunting in the trees for Grouse as an example.

2) Modified - A little tighter good for many bird hunting applications and a must when shooting steel shot.

3) Full - Tightest groups. best for long range hunting but accuracy is a must as your pattern will be tight.

4) Extra Full - These are your Turkey Chokes. One could write a novel on which is best. do some research but if you call the birds in close, you can use any choke.

What you need depends on how you wish to use the gun and what shells you plan on using. Lot's of options.

I use a modified for dove and quail and 6 shot - those euros are tough!

Use a full for goose and duck. Sometimes a modified for duck if we are jumping canals.

Use a full for turkey.

My boy downed his first turkey with a modified last year.

Please do what the posters above have said about getting it looked at. If you are shooting without the choke in, those threads will grab gunk and turn it into a time bomb for you.

thank you guys so much for all the information! I definitely have a much better understanding now after reading these responses.

You make the assumption that the shot stays perfectly packed within the mouth of the shot cup for the full length of the barrel, and that the shotgun will have no muzzle blast.

The most damaging effect I would anticipate, worse than pellet "dings" would be from the "fire jet" that would occur since the threads are slightly larger diameter than the wad and shotcup. As that thin sliver of space opens up, the pressure behind the shotcup suddenly has a vent, and the gasses "purge" at an exceedingly high velocity. This has a "blow torch" effect on threading, just like it will on rifling if a barrel has a wide spot. (Differential pressure, gas velocity, etc).

So again, no, you shouldn't be shooting internally threaded barrels without the choke installed.

Wouldn't a Full Choke work for both bird and Turkey Hunting?

Edit: if I actually read alittle further, you did say you could really use any choke for Turkey Hunting if you call them in close

Just checked the barrel out. It is in fact a fully rifled barrel. So this means what, I cant put a choke inside this? I will either need to buy a new barrel and then buy a choke, or just get a new Shotgun?

Since you're talking about a Mossberg 500...

Spare barrels are everywhere, and it's easy enough to change the barrel, so the straight forward solution is to have 2 barrels. Just get a spare barrel.

BUT, on the other hand, you might spend $150-200 for a new barrel, whereas you can probably find a used 500 for that price, or spend a bit more and get a new one.

So it's up to you. Personally, I'd buy the new shotgun, so I could leave the slug gun (your rifled barrel) set up with sights or scope, then have the smoothbore ready to go. Sit a deer stand in the morning, walk fields for pheasants midday, back in the stand in the evening. Two solutions for two applications.

You need a different barrel on your 870 to bird hunt.

You could probably trade your full rifled barrel to someone for a smooth bore barrel that would accept different choke tubes. Another route is to trade entire shotguns.

I see a bunch of used 12 gauge 870's with barrels that accept Rem Chokes for sale frequently at good prices. The 20 gauge seems a bit harder to find, but neither of them demand high prices.

Best of luck.

thanks. Ive bit doing some searching and it seems like I would be better off to just get a new shotgun for the price that im finding barrels for. Maybe I'll stop in a couple of gun stores around my area and see if they have anything used.

I completely forgot about the other Shotgun I have. I have a 16 gauge Ithaca Deerslayer model 37 Featherlight 2 3/4 Chamber. The gun was passed down to me from my Great-Grandfather. The barrel is a smoothbore all the way through, so I don't believe I would be able to put a Choke Tube into it however correct me if im wrong, but I can shoot anything as long as its 16 guage through this gun. Im sure the spread wont be nearly as good as an actual bird or Turkey gun with the proper Choke Tube in though...but I guess its worth a shot. I know 16 guage ammunition is hard to come by, im seeing some online. Any recommendations on what to try?

Theres some upland load here by Winchester..
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/9-26144
Federal..
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/product/2-FEH16075

Keep in mind that even though your 16 ga. is older and therefore does not accept interchangable choke tubes, it is still "choked". That is to say, it has a certain amount of predetermined constriction at the muzzle end of the barrel. You should be able to determine what that constriction is from imprinting somewhere on the barrel (not the receiver). Depending on what that turns out to be, you can decide if it is more appropriate for upland birds (Improved Cylinder or Modified) or for turkey (improved modified or full). I doubt it will turn out to be extra full.

Tell us what you find and we can probably help you decipher the choke if it isn't apparent.

By the way, if the gun is that old you probably want to make sure NOT to use any steel shot (as the barrel can be ruined by it). As you probably know, steel shot is required when hunting for waterfowl. I realize you didn't mention this as your intended prey, but I wouldn't want you to ruin your gun or worse be injured if you use the wrong type of shot.

I hope you enjoy upland birds as much as I do - - Best of luck!

I just noticed that you said your 16 ga. is the Deerslayer model, so my guess is it will be improved cylinder. While that would be fine for upland birds, the barrel length is apt to be on the short side (which affects your swing on the birds) and it might also have a canteliver scope mount which would make it really not appropriate for anything but deer.

Yeah the only writing I can find on the gun is on the barrel near the action. It says...

Deerslayer
Model 37-Featherlight 16ga-2 3/4 Chamber-Proof Tested Ithaca gun CO, INC Ithaca NY -Made in the USA ROTO FORGED



Here is a pic of the end of the barrel. Feels smooth. The barrel on this gun is for sure smaller than the 20ga Remington.

Sounds like you have 2 slug guns and no bird gun on you hands. You can consider trading one for a bird gun.

im gonna stop in to some local gun shops on Monday and see if I can find myself a used bird gun for a decent price! I'll just have to suck it up and drop some $$$ I guess

thanks for all the help and info!

That Deerslayer is a "classic", especially in 16 gauge.

Don't sell that one !!!

BTW - that gun has a "fixed" choke.


Buy yourself a new 500 or an 870 (both will have screw-in chokes).

I would never sell that Ithaca! That was passed down to me from my Great grandfather and has a lot of sentimental value to me. I actually plan on cleaning it up and going out hunting with it a few times this year. It hasent been hunted with since he last hunted with it about 15 years ago.

What am I missing reading this thread? Both the 870 and the Itchia barrels remove very easy, so the finger in the bore isn't needed to see what they are/were.

I would just shop for a used shot gun with a barrel that accepts choke tubes for the verying differences in the game ya want to hunt.
Don't rule out pawn shops either.

:D Al