Speaking of never going under gunned.
09-17-2003, 09:50 PM
#1
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
Speaking of never going under gunned.
Was doing some reading today in American rifleman and came acoss an article about Lazzeroni and a couple of his new cartridges.
He has aparantly loaded up a .475 cartridge. Said it is te largest bullet that will still headspace on the shoulder properly with his cases. Anyway, this thing fires a 500 grain slug at 2725 fps[
][][] and generates over 4 tons (12,000 ft lbs +) of energy at the muzzle.[][][] In a ten pound rifle it was said to have 107 ft lbs of recoil. [:@][][:@][]
Now that' s never being under gunned!!!!
EKM, here is your new dinosaur, I mean elk, rifle.
He also was experimenting with a new 30. That one launches a 150 grain bullet at over 4000 fps. At over 300 yards it was said to still be traveling at 3100 fps. Only problem is that the barrel isn' t expected to last more than about 1000 shots.
He has aparantly loaded up a .475 cartridge. Said it is te largest bullet that will still headspace on the shoulder properly with his cases. Anyway, this thing fires a 500 grain slug at 2725 fps[
][][] and generates over 4 tons (12,000 ft lbs +) of energy at the muzzle.[][][] In a ten pound rifle it was said to have 107 ft lbs of recoil. [:@][][:@][]Now that' s never being under gunned!!!!
EKM, here is your new dinosaur, I mean elk, rifle.
He also was experimenting with a new 30. That one launches a 150 grain bullet at over 4000 fps. At over 300 yards it was said to still be traveling at 3100 fps. Only problem is that the barrel isn' t expected to last more than about 1000 shots.
09-17-2003, 10:44 PM
#3
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coralville, IA. USA
Posts: 3,802
RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
Only problem is that the barrel isn' t expected to last more than about 1000 shots.
The sad thing is that there will be some who will convince themselves that because of cartridges like this a more standard cartridge like the .300WinMag are somehow now ineffective. Magnumbitis at its finest.
Mike
09-18-2003, 05:31 PM
#4
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
Don,t see any need for a rifle with that kind of power or recoil. The 378 weatherby should handle everything from snowshoe hares on up. This would include the saber tooth whitetail.
09-18-2003, 10:48 PM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 3,516
RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
BigBulls:
Does this .475 Cartridge shoot a heaver bullet with greater velocity, because a 500 gr. bullet with a velocity of 2725 f/s has a energy of 8243 ft/lb. I am not trying to be a wise guy I am just very interested because a 460 Wby. Mag. pushes a 500 gr. bullet 2700 f/s 8092 ft/lb. I would love to shoot either one. Good shooting!!
Does this .475 Cartridge shoot a heaver bullet with greater velocity, because a 500 gr. bullet with a velocity of 2725 f/s has a energy of 8243 ft/lb. I am not trying to be a wise guy I am just very interested because a 460 Wby. Mag. pushes a 500 gr. bullet 2700 f/s 8092 ft/lb. I would love to shoot either one. Good shooting!!
09-18-2003, 11:12 PM
#9
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
Bigbulls,
Some interesting stuff going on at the ragged upper end of centerfire rifles with the wild cats including the 500A2, 600 Overkill and 700 Overkill cartridges, as well as others. If I was going for something like that, then I think I would write off trying to hunt with it and just get one of those single shot 50 BMG rifles and start playing at the 1000 yard range. But back to the Lazzeroni....
I believe 4 tons of energy would translate to 8,000 ft pounds not 12,000 but in any case that is a lot. If 8,000 is the number, then it' s a bit above a 460 Weatherby in terms of energy and recoil. Interestingly enough the 460 Weatherby is known in Africa as the 460 Wound-A-Beast and is not a favorite of PH' s -- NOT because of recoil or accuracy problems or recoil whimpy hunters, but rather excessive speed.
Contrary to the what one would assume, it seems that on the large large game animals that 500gr bullets at around 2150 to 2350 fps provides the best trade off of reliability, energy, bullet integrity, and straight line penetration; whereas the Weatherby (and I assume this new cartridge) falls into the " sounds great" but in reality may be a bit erratic and unpredictable in the straight line penetration department (like 4 feet of meat on some shots) -- oddly enough, kind of a case of big and slow and low pressure rounds " carrying the day" -- maybe the British had it figured out best about 100 years ago.
I' ll probably turn some of my " junk guns" into cash through GunBroker.com and get another CZ 550 either in 458WinMag and then modify it to a 458 Lott, just for entertainment purposes of course, I would never shoot an elk with it.
Now on the other hand, a Alaskan Coastal Brownie..... Hmmm! [8D]
OR
Get a CZ in 7mmRemMag since that " slot" in my rack is empty and I' ve always wanted one. I figure the 7mmRemMag would work fine on varmits and antelope and such, I don' t care for deer much -- not too good for eating compared to others.
ON THE OTHER HAND....
An interesting quote from one of the lads who took his African " Big Five" ... " Once you' ve walked amongst them, there is no such thing as a rifle too large!" What a difference animals that hunt back or that can " pancake" you make on the psyche of a hunter!
Good Day,
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
Some interesting stuff going on at the ragged upper end of centerfire rifles with the wild cats including the 500A2, 600 Overkill and 700 Overkill cartridges, as well as others. If I was going for something like that, then I think I would write off trying to hunt with it and just get one of those single shot 50 BMG rifles and start playing at the 1000 yard range. But back to the Lazzeroni....
I believe 4 tons of energy would translate to 8,000 ft pounds not 12,000 but in any case that is a lot. If 8,000 is the number, then it' s a bit above a 460 Weatherby in terms of energy and recoil. Interestingly enough the 460 Weatherby is known in Africa as the 460 Wound-A-Beast and is not a favorite of PH' s -- NOT because of recoil or accuracy problems or recoil whimpy hunters, but rather excessive speed.
Contrary to the what one would assume, it seems that on the large large game animals that 500gr bullets at around 2150 to 2350 fps provides the best trade off of reliability, energy, bullet integrity, and straight line penetration; whereas the Weatherby (and I assume this new cartridge) falls into the " sounds great" but in reality may be a bit erratic and unpredictable in the straight line penetration department (like 4 feet of meat on some shots) -- oddly enough, kind of a case of big and slow and low pressure rounds " carrying the day" -- maybe the British had it figured out best about 100 years ago.
I' ll probably turn some of my " junk guns" into cash through GunBroker.com and get another CZ 550 either in 458WinMag and then modify it to a 458 Lott, just for entertainment purposes of course, I would never shoot an elk with it.
Now on the other hand, a Alaskan Coastal Brownie..... Hmmm! [8D]OR
Get a CZ in 7mmRemMag since that " slot" in my rack is empty and I' ve always wanted one. I figure the 7mmRemMag would work fine on varmits and antelope and such, I don' t care for deer much -- not too good for eating compared to others.
ON THE OTHER HAND....
An interesting quote from one of the lads who took his African " Big Five" ... " Once you' ve walked amongst them, there is no such thing as a rifle too large!" What a difference animals that hunt back or that can " pancake" you make on the psyche of a hunter!
Good Day,
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM