Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Was doing some reading today in American rifleman and came acoss an article about Lazzeroni and a couple of his new cartridges.

He has aparantly loaded up a .475 cartridge. Said it is te largest bullet that will still headspace on the shoulder properly with his cases. Anyway, this thing fires a 500 grain slug at 2725 fps[:o][:o][:o] and generates over 4 tons (12,000 ft lbs +) of energy at the muzzle.[:o][:o][:o] In a ten pound rifle it was said to have 107 ft lbs of recoil. [:@][:o][:@][:o]
Now that' s never being under gunned!!!!;)
EKM, here is your new dinosaur, I mean elk, rifle.;)


He also was experimenting with a new 30. That one launches a 150 grain bullet at over 4000 fps. At over 300 yards it was said to still be traveling at 3100 fps. Only problem is that the barrel isn' t expected to last more than about 1000 shots.:(

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

[:o]

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Who cares about the barrel, my SHOULDER wouldn' t last 1000 shots! [X(]

The sad thing is that there will be some who will convince themselves that because of cartridges like this a more standard cartridge like the .300WinMag are somehow now ineffective. Magnumbitis at its finest.

Mike

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Don,t see any need for a rifle with that kind of power or recoil. The 378 weatherby should handle everything from snowshoe hares on up. This would include the saber tooth whitetail.:)

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

I imagine the ammo cost would be crazy.

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Someone out there will show up with one of these things and really think he/she needs the power

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Man..that is enough to knock you flat on your rump....:D

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

BigBulls:

Does this .475 Cartridge shoot a heaver bullet with greater velocity, because a 500 gr. bullet with a velocity of 2725 f/s has a energy of 8243 ft/lb. I am not trying to be a wise guy I am just very interested because a 460 Wby. Mag. pushes a 500 gr. bullet 2700 f/s 8092 ft/lb. I would love to shoot either one. Good shooting!!

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Bigbulls,

Some interesting stuff going on at the ragged upper end of centerfire rifles with the wild cats including the 500A2, 600 Overkill and 700 Overkill cartridges, as well as others. If I was going for something like that, then I think I would write off trying to hunt with it and just get one of those single shot 50 BMG rifles and start playing at the 1000 yard range. But back to the Lazzeroni....

I believe 4 tons of energy would translate to 8,000 ft pounds not 12,000 but in any case that is a lot. If 8,000 is the number, then it' s a bit above a 460 Weatherby in terms of energy and recoil. Interestingly enough the 460 Weatherby is known in Africa as the 460 Wound-A-Beast and is not a favorite of PH' s -- NOT because of recoil or accuracy problems or recoil whimpy hunters, but rather excessive speed.

Contrary to the what one would assume, it seems that on the large large game animals that 500gr bullets at around 2150 to 2350 fps provides the best trade off of reliability, energy, bullet integrity, and straight line penetration; whereas the Weatherby (and I assume this new cartridge) falls into the " sounds great" but in reality may be a bit erratic and unpredictable in the straight line penetration department (like 4 feet of meat on some shots) -- oddly enough, kind of a case of big and slow and low pressure rounds " carrying the day" -- maybe the British had it figured out best about 100 years ago.

I' ll probably turn some of my " junk guns" into cash through GunBroker.com and get another CZ 550 either in 458WinMag and then modify it to a 458 Lott, just for entertainment purposes of course, I would never shoot an elk with it. :D Now on the other hand, a Alaskan Coastal Brownie..... Hmmm! [8D]

OR

Get a CZ in 7mmRemMag since that " slot" in my rack is empty and I' ve always wanted one. I figure the 7mmRemMag would work fine on varmits and antelope and such, I don' t care for deer much -- not too good for eating compared to others.

ON THE OTHER HAND....

An interesting quote from one of the lads who took his African " Big Five" ... " Once you' ve walked amongst them, there is no such thing as a rifle too large!" What a difference animals that hunt back or that can " pancake" you make on the psyche of a hunter!

Good Day,
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Come on guys, don' t knock it. Its just good fun.

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Get me a one of those rifles, a time machine and lets go get ourselfs a T-Rex.:D:D

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

That's marginally better than the .460 Weatherby.....no big deal.....and BTW since when is 4 tons of muzzle energy = 12,000ft-lbs?

This kind of power has been available to dangerous game hunters since 1958 and frankly is very little used.

The dangerous game workhorses are still today the .375 H&H, the .416 Rigby, and lately the .458 Lott as well as the .458 Win Mag.....also the .416 Rem Mag is gaining in popularity.

Many Dangerous game hunters are still shooting their double rifles and the most popular seems to be the .470 Nitro which is similar in power to the .458 Win Mag.

The "Weatherby class" of ultra energy cartridges are not very popular with the DG hunters at all.....

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

I have been told my some Pro Hunters including a good friend of mine who is an airline jockey and hunts all over the world, that the 500 grain bullet at about 2200-2400 is about the fastest fight stopper out there. As someone above mentioned driving it to much faster than that will cause it to over expand and not penetrate. I had a 416 Remington Mag in a Ruger NO 1. I am a bit suprised that the 416 Rem Mag is not more popular than it is. Its one hell of a powerful round and yet the recoil is not earthshaking. It does get you attention right away though. I don't think there would be a better round for Grizzly and Browns than the 416 Rem Mag. The only reason that I ended up with that rifle is that a buddy of mine who sold guns ordered a 416 Rigby in the Ruger. When it got there it turned out to be the Remington instead and his cusomer wouldn't take it so he was going to send it back but told me I could have it for his cost minus what it would cost him to ship it back. I shot the hell out of it for a year or so. I used it for one bear hunt but ended up shooting one with the 45-70 instead. The only thing I killed with it was one very dead rattlesnake that showed up at the range while we were shooting it. I can say that it is a hell of a snake gun.:D

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

I think it boils down to have one to satisfiy one's wants.There is no need to have something that powerful.I have a Winchester Model 70 Super Grade 458 Win Mag unfired.Why? I don't know just to have one I guess.I'll probably never use it for anything. My 375 H&H is more gun then I'll ever need.If owning one of these cannons helps satisfiy a persons craving by all means get one.While they're at it line up a good othopedic surgeon specializing in Shoulder replacement. They'll end up needing him.Why punnish yourself? I did hear that shooting these heavy recoil rifles can detach your retinas. I was shooting a 375 H&H when an eye doctor came over and told me this. He warned me against shooting these heavy recoil cartridges.I figured he knew allot more then I did.I ended up shooting a couple more rounds and put it up.
Ruger Redhawk

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

That still ain't big enough for my next hunt,Fla. whitetail

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

I can testify to the mack that they can ruin a shoulder. I shot them a lot but now that shoulder is all but useless. That 416 did took its toll on the shoulder. Thats my doctors therory anyway. Or one of his therorys I should say. I would not doubt it. There were a few years when I had several of the big guns and shot them to the tune of 200 rounds a week or so.

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

Yes, yes, yes, I had a brain fart about the 12,000 ft lbs.[:'(][&:]

RE: Speaking of never going under gunned.
 

I recall Ackley's comments about the .475 A & M Magnum of some years back. He said firing it would be the equivalent of going sevral rounds against the world's heavyweight boxing champion, and that such power was not needed for anything on earth! But it might be useful when safaris to other planets became possible, planets that were still inhabited by dinosaurs or similar creatures.....