Connecticut Tragedy
 

I must say this first: The horrific tragedy in Connecticut today sickens me to no end and it’s a sad day in our country when this happens; my prayers and thoughts go out to the victims and their families.
Every anti-gun person in the world is going to be screaming “Gun Control” for months to come. They are on the White House lawn as I type this. Obviously this is a mental health issue, a severe deranged, individual because no human that is capable of doing what he did is concerned about stealing a weapon and shooting someone. I believe the information at this point (although early in the investigation) is that he stole those guns from his mother whom he also shot. It’s not a gun control issue it’s a mental health issue…a big one. He could have used many other methods to carry out the damage. I just wanted to say we in the gun community need to keep our composure and never get outraged when discussing gun control especially now. Our backs are against the wall… again and the anti’s are out to use this tragedy in their favor. Know your facts when you defend our rights, never get excited. We need to know the truth because if the truth is those were his mom’s handguns she was one of us!

They were her registered handguns and that was an excellent post Sir!!!

Basically, the mom was robbed and murdered by a deranged adult, and he, for whatever reason decided to bring carnage to a grade school. Those who didn't believe gun control would be an issue anytime soon were just proved wrong. Don't fall into that false sense that your hunting shotguns, or your bolt action rifles will be safe. The anti's will not rest until we lose it all.

Just put yourself in those parents shoes and ask yourself this one question. What if those guns were locked in a gun safe? Personally I think gun control is a responsible person keeping legally owned guns out of acts of violence like this tragedy. I think they should take the movie theater killer out in the street and dismember him in public alive. Start setting the example of what will happen to so called thugs. And stop making celebrities out of these worthless POS. We all know that criminals have guns and can get guns but sometimes gun control starts at home.

Tragedy
 

The guy walked freely into the school dressed in black, no one to challenge and ask what his business was, why he was there ? My wife worked for one of the colleges in Indiana for years, had to travel to many different schools for meetings---many of the schools were fenced, had security systems, tv moniters showing the entrances and / or a watchman at the door---if you could not present proper identification or show a valid reason to get in, you didn't get in .
When are we going to face up to the fact that too many deranged are slipping through the net and ending up in a crowded area with a weapon ? Trying to disarm a freedom loving nation after all the arms are already out there is insane and will simply turn us into an entire nation of victims--rather than more gun control laws that don't deter criminals and killers, how about starting to make gatherings safer by whatever means possible? Gates, fences, security people, closed circuit television, hall monitors, some sort of controlled access to schools, sports centers etc because nothing else is working---the gun control laws we have in place now control the lawabiding citizens only. I do not shoot people nor are my guns in a place where they can be found and stolen, so I'm not sure why taking my guns away will somehow stop school shootings in Conneticut and Oregon--

He did not just walk into the school un-challanged...the doors were locked, a video monitor system was in place...he forced his way through a locked door (shot the glass out)...I am in CT and can tell you this for a fact...stop spreading false information and speculation.

Amen to that! The first thing out yesterday was that he had two handguns that he did the shootings with and there was a .223 rifle out in the car he came in. Now the autopsy report is that all of them were shot multiple times with a centerfire rifle (assault rifle was the term used), so why not wait and let the investigation continue before making unfounded comments! We don't know that his Mom didn't have the guns all secured in a safe and that he somehow got the combination or broke into it.

His mom was dead. Its hard to keep the guns secured and locked up when your the cold dead corpse on the floor bleeding. Sometimes a locked up gun is a useless gun. Who knows though, if she would have, or could have, pulled the trigger on her own son. This, and the other recent events, as well as Columbine, and high profile shootings that even happened during the 10yrs of "Brady Heaven" show that strict gun control laws do not actually work. Ask yourself, when was the last time a criminal obeyed a law? Ask yourself, how hard is it to get a weapon of some kind? If you come up with the answer that its very hard, especially with strict laws, might I suggest relocating from under that rock in which you live. It is not hard at all to get a weapon thru illegal means, all you have to do is try. This horrendous crime is proof that we have problems as a society, and that needs fixing. Quit letting the xbox and internet babysit your kids and start being the "uncool" parents and take your kids traveling, camping, and hunting.

deranged people
 

lets focus on the deranged mind not the weapons used,look what some terrorists did on 911 with just boxcutters,if guns werent used it would have been another weapon,if the mother had gotten her son some mental health help, this whole incident probably would not have happened

X's TWO - (People Kill People)

Gentlemen, I stand corrected on my opening comments---possible overeaction to the misleading "facts" from the media---you are right, more will come to light as the investigation continues---

DON'T BLAME THE MOM, who knows what she went through with this nut!

i am not blaming the mother for anything,what i am trying to say is that maybe if people were more aware of the warning signs of mental illness this could have been prevented,most of the mass shootings that have happened were done my mentally sick people that gave warning signs that something was going on with them,if friends and family see theses changes going on,withdrawing ,isolation,mood changes,anger they need to step in and seek help.we cant just assume anymore that people are just going thru something and step up and get them help

There was a rather chilling article up on .msn yesterday title something along the line, "...I am Adam Lanza's Mother," detailing the struggles she faces with her own mentally ill son (drawing a parallel, she's not Nancy Lanza). She describes her other children implementing their "safety plan" (locking themselves inside the family car) when their brother has an outburst. Having to carry all the knives in the house with her in a Tupperware container. Showing up at the emergency room with him and pleading for the staff to call the police. I was shocked. I've never had that kind of window into that kind of situation faced by another parent.

My thoughts today are with two families who'll bury the little people who were their hopes and dreams for the future.

To my knowledge any person with a mental illness problem can walk into a store and purchase any gun he wants if he doesn't have a criminal record. Nothing can be said about mental illness issues because of the federal HIPPA laws(the privacy act). Personally I don't believe anybody who has mental health issues has any business owning a firearm. I have worked in emergency for many years and trust me I have taken care of patients who I would defiantly not want them owning a gun. I have a buddy who takes care of all the firearm sales for a company, he said he can refuse to sell a firearm to any person who he thinks might be unstable. He is not trained in any way to pick up on mental health problems. He refused to sell a gun to one person because the person was having some anger issues that day. There needs to be some form of record keeping so people like this cannot buy a firearm, but that's where the HIPPA laws stop that. I realize that this scum did not buy these guns, he stole them, but he could have bought them if he didn't have a criminal record. I am NOT for gun control. I own several rifles, shotguns and a few pistols, but some people have no business owning a weapon. When I vote the first thing I look at is where they stand on gun control. This senseless tragedy just made me literally sick at my stomach. They were just babies.

The Virginia Tech shooter bought his guns legally though he had a mental health issue in the recent path. Virginia changed the law so that someone like him could not buy them legally now. The only problem is, they would just get them illegally or like the CT guy did and kill someone they know who has them and steal them.

Prohibition didn't work, it just gave rise to the mob which we still have today. Criminalizing drugs hasn't worked, they have been illegal for decades and can be purchased on every streetcorner in America. Outlawing guns would be no different. In fact, I would say we would be less safe as now outlaws would know we are unarmed and home invasions would skyrocket. Whenever something is illegal, there springs up an underground market for it.

On top of this, any new laws would be an extreme over reaction. Your chance of dying in a mass murder are almost nill. Your odds of being murdered by is low. Your odds of dying in a car wreck are extremely high, 1 in 84 over your lifetime. Yet nobody would give up their car.

She knowed her son was a mental case, therefor she should have had the guns safely out of his potential reach. Like in a gun safe, it is no different than leaving a loaded weapon where a child could get ahold of it.

Dead people can't protect a gun safe Jim. With MOM dead, the kid had all the time in the world to locate and use any type of key for that safe.

"Nothing can be said about mental illness issues because of the federal HIPPA laws(the privacy act)."
Not true, in Illinois, you have to get a FOID card (Firearm Owner's ID) before you can possess a firearm. They specifically ask whether you have a patient in a mental institution or "adjudicated as a mental defective." (also about drug addiction, criminal background, etc.). Of course you could lie, and I don't know how close they check.

WOW! When I'm reading what some of you guys are typing, I can't believe you are pro-gun and pro 2nd amendment.

I have two words for anyone who believes in any kind of gun control.

Timothy Mcveigh!!

What kind of gun did he use??

Blame the bad guy. Not the Mom! Not the gun! The bad guy!!

BLAME THE BAD GUY!!!!!!!

I recall a very similar line of questioning when I applied for a handgun purchase permit in the state of Minnesota.

I'm not sure how closely they checked on any of my responses, however I was issued one within the 30 day time limit (it was over 10 yrs ago, so I don't recall exactly how long the time frame was before the permit was issued).

Amen, brother.


Otherwise we will have to start blaming the cars for the actions of the drunk driver who maims or kills the next child, or person in an accident.

Right on brother

Yep thats what I've been saying. They didn't use guns on 9/11

How did the mom die? She was shot!!!! Obviously she didnt protect the safe when she was alive. If the guns would have been locked up, she would be alive and so would the children.


http://thestir.cafemom.com/in_the_ne..._kills_his_mom

Jim, we will never know. What might have been.

We cannot bring doubt to the mother of what she should have or could have done. Her son was a huge mental health time bomb and that’s where the focus needs to stay. We cannot divide on this critical issue.
We can recite 911 issues and the fact that there was no gun, the Missouri issue where the assist principle grabbed his 45 from his car and took control of that issue...who knows how many he saved. McVay bombing that killed way too many....again "no gun" But let’s not fuel the fire for the anti's rather show them that in this moment of time "they are being disrespectful" by using this as an opportunity to express their agenda.

In between argueing whether to ban all guns or arm everyone,
How about look around,
Kids in your neighborhood, in your kids school, that nephew you see once a year,
Take a kid you normally wouldn't take out in the field, hunting, fishing, hiking, not just the good kids you enjoy being with, but a problem child,
Maybe just maybe, befriending such a kid can shine a light on someone,
Adults with problems start out as kids with problems,
If nothing else, doesn't hurt to take a kid fishing

You sir are wrong. He would have gottrn his hands on a gun some other way if he was determined to do this. There are so many ways to do so all the way down to just stealing them from random home break ins and so fouth

One thing is for sure
 

The U.S. Congress won't pass any gun law banning the Taliban from having AK 47's.

I believe you are wrong! You are making a persumption that he would steal one. If they are laying arround the house where he has acsess to one and he gets the notion, it is alot easier to act upon it in a fit of rage than to go out and try and steal one.

I agree it is easier but I decided that I was gonna kill someone I do not belive it would matter to me how I killed them a gun, a bomb, a baseball bat, a knife or just run over them with my vehicle. If you Libs want to give up your guns then go right ahead but I will stick with my 2nd amendment right. If someone is sick enough to do such a terrible act then no dang gun control will help. From reading some of your oyher post on some topics I do believe you probably to need to give your guns up as you have stated you would kill a human oyer a dog. Now thats pretty dang bad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are mistaken, I am not giving up my guns! And yeah, I make a living with my dogs, if someone was to shoot them, that is jeopardizing my livelyhood and how I provide for my family. You actually think I would let someone do that?

But you're OK forcing others to, is that it?:sad0064:

Where do you guys come up with that crap? All I said is if she should have had the guns locked up in a safe where someone that has known mental problems couldnt get to them. I NEVER said anything about taken away guns. I have a Bushmaster and it isnt going anywhere.

Was there evidence that she didn't lock up her guns? No, her being dead is not proof.

How did he get the guns, if he had no acsess to them? He obviously had acsess, he shot her before he got the guns.

Dude you got problems if you would shoot someone over a dog wether you make a living with them or not. I would whoop someones butt over that and press chargers butt never even consider shooting
someone over it. Hell if you was a heavy equipment operator and someone stole your bulldozer would you shoot them. They would be affecting your lively hood. Its people that think you that DOES NOT NEED TO HAVE GUNS. Cause its not the guns its the idiots with guns

My dogs are not just tools. The bulldozer isnt a living breathing member of my family that was raised from a pup and spent 1000's of hours training it. I wouldnt just shoot anyone over a dog, but if someone blatantly shot my dog with out a very good reason, they would probably have to shoot me in order to get me off of them, and believe me I am a permit carring citizen that is always armed. There is no reason to shoot a mans hunting dog, they have a collar with the name, address and phone #, call the owner and be civil, not every hound hunter is a dick. I know they are alot of them out there but you can not catagorize all hound hunters as the same.