Heavy Recoiling Rifles
10-19-2011, 04:27 PM
#12
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Portage, Wi.
Posts: 316
Not me, very recoil sensitive due to having c5-c6-c7 fused.I have a friend that had to shoot the biggest and baddest guns out there, he can no longer shoot anymore due to both retnias being detatched. Just my .02 cents.
10-20-2011, 05:49 PM
#14
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 360
Not alot of hunters subject themselves, comparatively speaking, to the recoil of shotguns. A 10ga isnt as bad as a 12ga shooting the 3.5" rounds. How many rounds do duck hunters and geese hunters usually shoot? I think you will find the rifle shooters with retina problems are putting more rounds down range.
10-21-2011, 02:39 PM
#16
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 360
Key word there, bench shooters. How many shoot magnum shot loads on a shooting bench?lol I can stand and shoot my 375H&H all day long, thats not even a challenge. Now sitting on a bench, it becomes a new animal.
10-22-2011, 12:25 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
First off, bench shooters 1) aren't generally shooting a .416 Rigby, 2) are smart enough to use a muzzle break, and 3) aren't dumb enough to package it in a 9lb rifle.
It's not the bench shooters that have problems, its' the guys with sporter-weight rifles without muzzle breaks chambered for heavy cartridges that take the beating. Even in weight controlled matches, benchrest shooters are pushing 16-17lb rigs, and open classes are running mid to upper 20lbs (sometimes heavier), and they're running highly efficient muzzle breaks (not just the ones that "look cool"). I run a .338 RUM in open class that has less felt recoil than my Ruger synthetic sporter .30-06.
Frankly, to put an end to the shotgun vs. rifle debate, the simple answer is IMPULSE. Shotgun shells 1) run lower velocity, and 2) run MUCH lower pressure. Even if the shotgun has the same energy (resulting in the same total recoil force) as a rifle, the higher pressure, faster moving rifle cartridge will exert all of it's force over a shorter time.
The simple example: when I throw a baseball, I exert a force on the ball. This force can be measured by how much energy the ball has when it leaves my hand. The force is developed slowly over time while my arm is swinging, so it has a very long impulse (time). I can throw the ball, and my hand is fine.
HOWEVER, if my fastball hits someone in the face, all of that force gets translated VERY QUICKLY, giving it much SHORTER impulse time. So even though the SAME FORCE/ENERGY was exerted by my hand, my hand was fine, but the victims cheekbone is broken, even though the SAME ENERGY was transfered in each case.
Ultimately, the higher velocity and higher pressure the round, the SHORTER the impulse. If you ever had a chance to shoot a .480 Ruger Super Redhawk beside a .454 Cassull Super Redhawk, you could also see this difference. Even though they were similarly powered (energy wise), the .480 Ruger, as it claimed, felt more like a hard shove to your palm, whereas the .454 Cassull feels like you're palm is getting place-kicked. Time/Impulse makes all the difference.
To speak to the original topic of detached retinas vs heavy recoiling rifles...
I've detached my left retina twice. Once was in a Golden Gloves boxing match, and the second time was at a rodeo when I was "dashboarded" on the back of a bulls head (10yrs professional bull rider, and counting). I now have extremely poor peripheral vision to my left side. Some of my boxing trainers say retinas get stronger over time, some say they get worse. I hadn't been in the ring long when my retina detached, and he was only 145lbs, wearing 20oz gloves. I've taken MUCH harder hits since then, fighting NOW at 170lbs and wearing 6oz gloves (MMA), and I've never had a problem with detached retina. I tend to believe that my eyes are "used to getting hit" now.
I have NEVER had my retina detach under recoil. I shoot .300 and 7mm WSM's, .338 Lap, .338 RUM, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, and heavy .45-70 loads from rifles, and 3" and 3 1/2" buckshot and turkey loads from my 12ga's on a regular basis.
My wife is 5' 3" and 125lbs, and she shoots 3 1/2" 12ga turkey loads for gobblers, and a .45-70 with over 3,400ft.lbs. (325grn at 2200fps) for deer and bear, and a .300 WSM for 600/1000yrd F-class, and she's never detached one yet.
If you consider an ultra lightweight rifle even in a moderate cartridge like a .30-06 or .300 RUM and someone that isn't used to shooting heavy recoiling rifles, you could be looking at a detached retina.
It's not the bench shooters that have problems, its' the guys with sporter-weight rifles without muzzle breaks chambered for heavy cartridges that take the beating. Even in weight controlled matches, benchrest shooters are pushing 16-17lb rigs, and open classes are running mid to upper 20lbs (sometimes heavier), and they're running highly efficient muzzle breaks (not just the ones that "look cool"). I run a .338 RUM in open class that has less felt recoil than my Ruger synthetic sporter .30-06.
Frankly, to put an end to the shotgun vs. rifle debate, the simple answer is IMPULSE. Shotgun shells 1) run lower velocity, and 2) run MUCH lower pressure. Even if the shotgun has the same energy (resulting in the same total recoil force) as a rifle, the higher pressure, faster moving rifle cartridge will exert all of it's force over a shorter time.
The simple example: when I throw a baseball, I exert a force on the ball. This force can be measured by how much energy the ball has when it leaves my hand. The force is developed slowly over time while my arm is swinging, so it has a very long impulse (time). I can throw the ball, and my hand is fine.
HOWEVER, if my fastball hits someone in the face, all of that force gets translated VERY QUICKLY, giving it much SHORTER impulse time. So even though the SAME FORCE/ENERGY was exerted by my hand, my hand was fine, but the victims cheekbone is broken, even though the SAME ENERGY was transfered in each case.
Ultimately, the higher velocity and higher pressure the round, the SHORTER the impulse. If you ever had a chance to shoot a .480 Ruger Super Redhawk beside a .454 Cassull Super Redhawk, you could also see this difference. Even though they were similarly powered (energy wise), the .480 Ruger, as it claimed, felt more like a hard shove to your palm, whereas the .454 Cassull feels like you're palm is getting place-kicked. Time/Impulse makes all the difference.
To speak to the original topic of detached retinas vs heavy recoiling rifles...
I've detached my left retina twice. Once was in a Golden Gloves boxing match, and the second time was at a rodeo when I was "dashboarded" on the back of a bulls head (10yrs professional bull rider, and counting). I now have extremely poor peripheral vision to my left side. Some of my boxing trainers say retinas get stronger over time, some say they get worse. I hadn't been in the ring long when my retina detached, and he was only 145lbs, wearing 20oz gloves. I've taken MUCH harder hits since then, fighting NOW at 170lbs and wearing 6oz gloves (MMA), and I've never had a problem with detached retina. I tend to believe that my eyes are "used to getting hit" now.
I have NEVER had my retina detach under recoil. I shoot .300 and 7mm WSM's, .338 Lap, .338 RUM, .375 H&H, .416 Rigby, and heavy .45-70 loads from rifles, and 3" and 3 1/2" buckshot and turkey loads from my 12ga's on a regular basis.
My wife is 5' 3" and 125lbs, and she shoots 3 1/2" 12ga turkey loads for gobblers, and a .45-70 with over 3,400ft.lbs. (325grn at 2200fps) for deer and bear, and a .300 WSM for 600/1000yrd F-class, and she's never detached one yet.
If you consider an ultra lightweight rifle even in a moderate cartridge like a .30-06 or .300 RUM and someone that isn't used to shooting heavy recoiling rifles, you could be looking at a detached retina.
10-24-2011, 06:27 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location:
Posts: 5,130
"If you consider an ultra lightweight rifle even in a moderate cartridge like a .30-06 or .300 RUM and someone that isn't used to shooting heavy recoiling rifles, you could be looking at a detached retina." Nomercy
Thank you for agreeing with me !!!
As you said "could be", not it happens all the time ~ please !!!
Thank you for agreeing with me !!!
As you said "could be", not it happens all the time ~ please !!!
10-25-2011, 06:35 AM
#19
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 360
I shoot a 7mm rem mag and an '06 as my small guns. I shoot a 300win(wifes), 300RUM, 375H&H, and a 45/70(stoked warm) from the bench. All are standard weight rifles. I've never had a problem, other then a pretty shoulder once in a while. Granted, I'm not near sighted either. Wife is near sighted, and she does ok with her 300win. Now if someone wants to compare a 3.5" mag load to rifles, load up the scatter gun, and shoot it at a bench at a rifle range, and run thru a hundred rounds. Some people are more prone to problems then others, and its outside of one's control. Only a fool continues to subject themselves to the abuse after a problem is found though.
