I don't have an axiom, but my daughter and niece both hunt with Weatherby Vanguards (aka Howa 1500) in .243 and hey are 8 and 11 years old and small framed girls (my daughter weighs all of 47 pounds and she handles the 243 fine...but she shot a 22 and 223 for 2-3 years before moving up). The 1500 is a great gun and will serve you well for years to come. We added Limbsaver pads (the actual screw on type) to both rifles and felt recoil is less than on either of my AR15's. I have also have a Limbsaver on my Tikka T3 Lite in 270 WSM and it made a huge difference. They really do work...some people also really like the Pachmeyer recoil pads equally.

I don't think you can go wrong with a Howa...they make a good product and as has been mentioned, the Weatherby Vanguards are Howa 1500's.

Redfield is now owned by Loopy...they are made in the USA (Oregon) and are a good product...I have 1 on a 257 Bob...you can also find the Nikon Prostaff's onsale in your price range as well, and I have been very happy with 3-9x50 on my 270 WSM...so that is also a good option. Some of the Bushnell Elites can also be had in that price range as well, I have an Elite 3200 (4-18x50?) on my 25 WSSM...is also is good glass. Most important is eye relief, so make sure that it has plenty of eye relief for him as a new shooter.

Also, don't forget the option of using the reduced recoil loads offered by some companies as an option to helping him ease in to shooting. Even as an experienced shooter, I would be leery to let a kid hunt deer with a 223...shot placement is critical when using a bullet that small, and a couple inches off can result in a wounded, lost animal and a long day. His heart will be pounding 10000/min and he's not going to have a bench to shoot from...just something to think of.

You should be happy with that scope, they've gotten good reviews. Also, the scopes EMT mentioned can be in your price range. I've got a Nikon Prostaff on A remmy 700 that I picked up for 150 last year. So, look around. But I think the redfield will work well.
-Jake

While I think you can get by just fine with the Redfield the Burris FFII is similarly priced and a much better scope. I'd check it out and see what you think. If you want something similar glass wise to the Redfield I'd look into the older Prostaffs you can get on sale for $100. The Burris however, has better glass than both of them, and is a better all around scope imo.

Just to piggy-back on what some of the other guys are saying about the price of a 700. Last year after Thanksgiving I bought a 700 ADL in .308 for just under $500. They even had a $50 mail in rebate through Remington, I bought it at Dicks Sporting Goods. Not sure if your wanting it soon or not, but Dicks and Sportmans Warehouse have some nice sales after the holidays.

Bass Pro Shop has the Leupold QDM Rifleman scope on sale...Matte Black 3X9X40mm great clear glass for $179.99 I believe?These scopes are great for drawing in the light in the early mornings and late evening in low-light conditions.If Your going to be Hunting try to get a good scope that will last a long time and be good and clear!


A Person/Young Hunter is going to be better off shooting a gun that won't cause them to flinch or be affraid to shoot...a Caldwell Lead Sled will also help in sighting a gun in.The .223 are good accurate Rifles that will take down a Deer....the .243 Caliber would be a little better....still a Person needs to practice shooting and give the Deer a clean,quick kill ethical shot!

The Bushnell Elite 3200 3-9x is going for $130 from several places on-line (midwayusa for instance). I have one on my 30-06 and love it.

I may have missed someone else mentioning it, but there is the Rem 7400. I saw one in 308 for $510 a few days ago. I know they come in 243 as well.

I personally started all my kids out with 22 bolt guns. They are fairly cheap (I got a savage for $99 5 or 6 years ago), and ammo is a lot cheaper than centerfire rifles. I take them to the range and we learn basic gun handling and techniques first, then move to different shooting positions. I regularly use my 22 during range sessions as well - I have a flinching problem and it really helps me to fire a few groups with the 22 between groups with the centerfires.

Your friend was lucky as hell. With a 243, he had no business taking that shot. It is accepted that, to kill a deer, you need 1000-1200 ft pounds of energy at impact. The ballistics chart I found on the 243 shows that the 243 is no where near that at 450 yards. In fact it only has 622 pounds of energy. about half the minimum. Yes, he killed it but, it was a stroke of luck and not something to be copied or encouraged in any shooter.

I have to agreed with emtrescue6 and the others that advised you to reconsider. The kids today are all enamoured with assault type weapons they see in video games. My nephews could not wait to see my AK.

First, that type of rifle is, in my opinion, not good for a young person to learn with or use to hunt. It puts the idea of "there are plenty more shots in there" in their head. A single shot or bolt action teaches patience and proper technique.

Second, while apparently legal in your state, the 223 was designed as a varmit round which, has been bastardized into military service where, it also is out of it's realm. I consider the 243 to be minimal at best for deer. I know, 50 people are going to tell me how many deer they killed with it. I stand by my opinion. You want to build success into your son's experience. He will be so excited that, he probably will not feel the recoil. The more powerful the round, the more "error factor" you are building in your son's favor. That is, if he pulls a shot a bit with a small round, you may have a miserable trailing job or never find the deer. On the contrary, the same mistake with (as an example, not necessarily recommended) with a 444, 450, 280, 30-06 etc., will probably drop the same deer.

While I recommend teaching precision shooting, it is important to build a good experience in as much as possible. Proper technique minimizes flinching. Also, PAST makes shoulder recoil pads which can be worn while shooting or hunting. They come in different thicknesses. I use them when sighting in something which recoils heavily. They make a great deal of difference.

Good luck!

Update:

My boss was wrong and promised me enough overtime and then changed his promise the next week when I was supposed to work the overtime for the extra money. So Im back to a bolt action. I decided on a Thompson Venture 25-06 and plan on using the 115gr loads. Found a freind of a freind of a freind who had one and i put a slipon limbsaver recoil pad on it and he let my son shoot it a few times and he did very good with it. He actually liked it more than the AR style , he said the recoil didn't hurt his arm at all.

Finding a venture in 25-06 has proved to be very challenging. Apperantly Thompson was bought out by Smith & Wesson around June of this year and that has halted all of thier 2011 production cycle untill October of this year (This is what Thompson themselves told me when I called them unable to find a single 25-06 venture). They said they only produced a total of 60 ventures from thier 2011 catalog in the 25-06 caliber but couldn't tell me where they shipped them to for security reasons???

They did however refer me to an online firearm broker/auction site where I found just one, still brand new and in the box. One darn venture 25-06 and I entered a bid for it and won it for $440.00.

I paid the auction people, the gun shop owner here faxed his ffl and the rifle is in the mail as I type this out.

It will be here sometime this week and as long as I pass my background check It should be in hand no later than friday. Can't imgaine that I wouldn't pass it as I have never been arrested and I haven't gotten a speeding ticket or been in a wreck since I was 18 and that was while stationed at Norfolk, Virginia.

I have to wait untill my next paycheck gets in to get the scope and mounts but after I get it all put together and me and the boy get some rounds down range I'll put up some pictures and such. Thanks again for everyone's help with this selection.

I was also going to suggest the Weatherby Vanguard, they're coming out with their S2 soon, which is something to consider.

If you get a .25-06 I would strongly suggest you get a 24" barrel.

Are you more open to a .257wby than a .270win? both good alternatives, but nothing wrong with the .25-06 either especially when talking deer or less...

Get a 24" barrel

I'd shoot 100gr TSX probably ahead of anything.