Well said. After shooting a variety of calibres and brands the choice becomes very obvious. It's almost like the gun chooses you.

Best of luck to both you and your son this hunting season

Willy

All excellent questions:

There are a lot of variables to consider here. Bottom line, the .25-06's case is larger than the .243's. Therefore, if you sent a 100 grain bullet through both, it's probably no surprise that the .25-06 has an edge in velocity by about 300 fps. That equates to a very slight edge in trajectory of approximately 3.7" at 500 yards, in spite of the .25-caliber bullet having a lower ballistic coefficient, according to Remington's data. However, 500 yards is pushing it with a 100 grain bullet for either caliber. I don't know what ranges you expect you might encounter game at, but I generally consider 300 yards a long shot. At 300 yards, the .25-06 drops about an inch less than the .243 does.

BUT - just to make things more confusing, the .25-06 is available in 120 grain factory loadings, while the .243 is limited to 100 grain. The BCs of these two bullets is more comparable, as are the velocities they're both driven at. Probably not surprisingly, the trajectories are also nearly identical out to 500 yards. The GOOD thing is being able to throw a heavier bullet with the .25-06. The BAD thing being that a heavier projectile, driven at the same velocity as a lighter projectile, produces more theoretical recoil.

I haven't used the .270 WSM, though I have used the .270. The .270 Win (not the WSM) and the .25-06 share the same parent case - the .30-06 Springfield. Yes, the .270 can throw a heavier bullet, at slightly less velocity than the .25-06 can throw a lighter bullet. Theoretically again, the .270 will produce more recoil. In practice, I can't tell much difference between .270 recoil and .25-06 recoil. Now, the .270 WSM is an entirely different proposition, driving heavier bullets at velocities greater than the .25-06 drives lighter bullets. I think I'd be able to tell the difference between these two - and I think you're wise to dismiss the .270 WSM as a candidate for your son.

There are lots of "7mms" out there. The 7mm Remington Magnum is certainly capable of giving out a beating. The .280 Remington (aka 7mm Express) is based on the .30-06 case like the .270 and .25-06. The 7x57mm Mauser is generally mild, but can be unpleasant when fired from a military-stocked rifle. As has been mentioned already, the 7mm-08 is based on the .308 Win (7.62 NATO), itself a shortened version of the .30-06. Here, I'll point out that even a mild caliber can be a mule, if it's fired from a rifle with a poorly designed or fitted stock, particularly for a smaller-statured shooter. Younger shooters often need a stock with less Length of Pull (LOP) than afforded by standard, non-youth stocks.

Not at all unreasonable. But, unless you're going to make the jump to a larger case than standard (i.e. a belted or short magnum - where recoil will definitely become a disqualifier), you're realistically not looking at effective ranges on game exceeding 400 yards at the moment. For most of us, an inch or two at that range is splitting hairs - almost literally. Don't be too literal in your interpretations of factory load data - the bottom line is that just about any of the calibers mentioned previously will do the job at those ranges with just a bit of "Kentucky windage."

Given your latest post, I think you're heading in the right direction with your son. Be open to the possibility that this might not be the year for him to handle a big-game hunt with a centerfire rifle. If that's the case, don't miss out on the opportunity to cultivate his interest and work on his fundamentals with lighter calibers. If he's ready to handle a centerfire (you might be surprised at how much recoil little guys can soak up when it means hunting with dad or not), make sure you put him behind something that fits him well, BEYOND simply selecting the caliber.

Good luck!

That is the best thing you could possibly do. Also, don't throw out the 30-30. Not as much range as others, but a lighter recoiling, very good caliber. Neglected to mention that this is also one of the ones I am considering getting for my new 10 year old hunting buddy. The 30-30 has PLENTY of range for 95% of hunters...and I'd venture to guess 100% of 10 year olds.

I have a .243 Browning A-Bolt Hunter and simply love it becasue of the low recoil,bought a Savage 7mm-08 last year and it does have more recoil but not as bad as my 30-06...I also have a .270 WSM and it has some pretty good felt recoil and the shells cost about $35.00 to $40.00 a bow of 20 shells.


One other thing to consider and have the best of both worlds is to get a nice Bolt-Action Rifle and whatever caliber You go with see if Remington makes the "Managed Recoil" shells for it...then You can let Your Son shoot a Rifle with less recoil and as he gets bigger or if You use it You can use the same shells or use the regular shells and it should shot about 1 inch higher!

Back from the range and the results are in :)

What all he shot (rifle range is only 50 yards - thought that was lame):

Savage Model 11 FYXP3 .223 (3-9x-40mm Scope) - shot 10 rounds and held about a 3inch group. First couple shots were rough and flinchy but he got much better towards the end.
Savage Model 11 FYXP3 .243 (3-9x-40mm Scope) - First shot was dead on, but the next nine shots were in about a 10in group. Was flinching every time he shot. Too much bang and recoil compared to the 223 for him I think.

Saw no need to go higher with the 25-06 and 270 as they are only louder and have more recoil (than the 243) and he probably would have done worse. I thought it would be fun to get an ar-15 style 223 and let him try that.

MISTAKE

DPMS Panther .223 (peep Sights) Held about a 3 inch group on 4 different zombie targets for about 100 rounds. He asked when were done if we could come back next weekend and shoot the last gun but instead with a scope on it.

As much as he liked it I am gonna have to go with the 223 DPMS. Its averaging about 800$ which is significantly more than what i had budgeted, but i talked with my boss and he has agreed to give me another 10 hours of overtime the week after next (will compensate for my price change).

Farwell to starting him on a bolt action. Wish they made gas operated bolt action systems...

Thanks again for everyone's help here. Much appreciated.

76,

Was he wearing BOTH ear plugs AND ear muffs ?

Flinching can take a lifetime to get over !!!

.223 for deer hunting? Not the best choice but will be okay with good shot placement and small southern deer. You could have made a better choice. Don't short change the kid, he will get much much better each time out. You will be looking for a new rifle very soon. Good luck

Ahh, Hell, let the kid shoot/hunt. If he wants to move to another cal. or model next year their still making new guns everyday. Have fun.

Yep, if that's what he likes, it's what he should get imo. I know it costs more now, but I believe it's better to spend a little extra to get them something they enjoy rather than save a few bucks to get them something they despise.

Or you can choose to be the parent and make a better decision...time behind a rifle will improve his accuracy and flinching. Not saying not to buy him a 223 to get started...but shot placement is critical with a 223 on a deer...and he may not be up to the challenge shooting freehand on a live target with his heart pounding 300 beats per second. I certainly wouldn't start him out deer hunting on a 223 though. But as someone mentioned...southern deer are small...dog sized even.

I thought the plan was for you to use the rifle this year to hunt with first? I'd certainly get him into the woods and get him some exposure, but I suspect his "joy" over the DPMS was simply the "cool" factor. Buy yourself a rifle first...take him into the woods for exposure, save your $ for a good bolt action 223 to get him started on and eventually, when he is ready...move up.

Happy hunting and good luck with that there...