RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

My mistake. I never claimed to be an expert.[&:]

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

Anyone who claims that a semi-auto is less accurate than a bolt-action hasn' t seen a Les Baer Custom AR-15 in action. I only wish I could afford one, as it would defniately be my choice for a varmint/coyote rifle, as well as just a hyper-accurate fun gun for punching paper. We had a skilled shooter at my local range with one recently with a Baer that was consistantly shooting groups at 100 yards that could be covered by a nickel or less. I' d put it up against any stock or lightly modified bolt-gun I' ve ever seen.

Mike

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

Yes, but try to get a stock or lightly modified semiauto to shoot that well. That is the only problem I have with semi' s. The cost difference is quite large.

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

In all honesty, just DO NOT tell my fiance this, there is no real need for any gun while deerhunting, there' s probably no need for bows either, I' m sure people have killed deer with a thrown stone, but where' s the fun in that? Why do I NEED a bolt action to hunt deer? because it' s your favorite action type? I' d much prefer a six-shooter .44mag to a bolt gun in any caliber. As far as cartridge arms go, there' s really no need for anything more than a single shot, but when was the last time anyone heard someone trying to ' ban' bolt guns in favor of single shots? Why should I be restricted to not using my gun of choice because it' s not your gun of choice?

As far as hunting goes, semiautos are more than accurate enough to be successful, it varies by arm and user just like any other action, but I don' t really see why I need to shoot better than 6" groups at 200yrds, which is absolutely NOT impossible for almost ANY semiauto I' ve ever shot (I' ve had several that would shoot under 1.5MOA out to 300yrds, and you won' t prove to me that 4.5" groups from a 30-06 won' t kill a deer!). No, the most accurate semiauto won' t outshoot the most accurate bolt gun, but then we' re talking about 1000yrd shooting an splitting hairs, knocking a deer in the dirt at under 300yrds is an entirely different story. I' ve got an SKS that I can shoot better with a 3x42mm glass than a buddy of mine (quite a successful shooter with other guns) can with a Pre-64 Winchester Model 70 featherweight (once offered for at $4500) with a 4xglass, and better than another buddy can with a 16x glass on a 6.5x55swe mauser and a Marlin .30-30 336 with a 16xglass, not all bolts are more accurate than all semiautos, my ruger and my fiance' s .308 mauser blows it away, but it' s a much better shooter than hunting scenarios would ever dictate a need for.

Why do we need to get rid of semiautomatic hunting arms? How does it hurt you that I don' t have to jack a bolt, pump a slide, break a bbl, drop a block, swing a lever? I can have a faster and more accurate second shot (when and if needed) because I don' t have to remove my hands from a shooting position, cycling a bolt requires rebounding from the recoil, removing the hand, cycling the action, replacing the hand and repositioning it into a ' comfort hold' , and aiming then firing, semiauto' s simply require rebounding and re-aiming and firing. I don' t know why it hurts people so bad that other hunters use a self cycling arm? I guess they just don' t like other people having an advantage on them, I can get the same huntability and equivalent field performance in the field from my semiauto arms as I do my bolt guns, but I don' t have to reposition myself after ever shot, I get the same five shots as you do, but I' m at an advantage because I can pull them faster, and I can ' re-aim' faster as well, so I get a 50yrd shot and a 75yrd shot instead of a 50yrd shot and a 100yrd shot.

The reliability issue is valid, you might have to search for a semiauto that won' t let you down, but why would anyone keep a gun that isn' t reliable? I never would, there' s no point in having a gun that you can' t trust your life to if you would need it? How many times have you seen a semiauto jam just lowering the hammer on the first shot?

Just because bolt guns on average are more accurate and more

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

Yay! Discussion. :) This is going to take me a while, so I' m probably going to respond to some of you guys in different posts.

First and foremost, I want to respond specifically to the guy who said not to give the antis any more help, and anybody else who had the same sentiment. I tried very carefully in the beginning of the post to say that I was not taking these guns away at all, and if you simply like semiautos, that' s more than fine. I simply like bolt actions, and I' d be resistant to using another type of gun, too. I have no issue with that. I just wanted somebody to convince me that they were better than a bolt or a lever or a single-shot in some important gun category.

[8D]

OK, I' m going to try for responses now... wish me luck. :D

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

First issue: there are some autoloaders that are just as accurate as some bolt actions.

Yes, of course. And there are some very accurate lever actions, too. But I' m pretty sure that as long as you guys were being really honest, if I told you ' bet your life on which gun is more accurate' and showed you a bolt and a semiauto side-by-side, as long as the bolt wasn' t a piece of crap, and as long as the semiauto wasn' t a $5000 gun, you' d take the bolt. That' s what I' m saying, in general. In general, two guns of similar quality will produce better accuracy in the bolt action.

The guys who say ' you just have to take really good care of it, and it won' t jam' :

Yes, of course. But that' s a lot more effort than a bolt. If you had to take one of two guns with you, and you knew that for two weeks you' d be away from cleaning supplies, etc, and in harsh conditions, which would you trust more - a standard semi, or a standard bolt? Taking all emotion and knowledge of specific guns out of the equation, a bolt is generally more predictable and more dependable.

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

Briman and drift,

Why snipers sometimes choose semiauto sniper rifles: #1, they have free access to some of the best, and most expensive semiautos in the world, which will of course be of better quality and decent accuracy, and #2, they' re still soldiers. If you were going to take a rifle to be a military sniper, and had to defend yourself, as well as take the standard sniper shots, you' d pick a semiauto for it' s more rapid-fire ability.

If you watch the sniper competition that' s held at Ft. Benning every year, though, you' ll see something very interesting: when it' s time to simply hit targets, every last sniper carries a bolt-action rifle.

I will agree that a $5000 semiauto will outshoot a good bolt action. That' s not convincing me to get a semiauto, though. :)

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

My first hunting rifle was a .44 mag semiauto from Ruger. Never jammed, and it shot reasonably well... it was enough range for a ten year old with buck fever. [8D]

I' ll agree with getting semiautos to punch paper - in fact, talking to you guys has made me want to go get a good crisp rifle to play with.

The other people in this thread brought up something I wasn' t even thinking about - semis are even heavier guns. Guess I' m definitely not getting one to take out West.

Yes, I will actually bet money that I can work a bolt fast enough to get a second shot off with you guys and your semis. Don' t laugh until you' ve seen it, I promise. :)

Nomercy, you had a good post going - you should come back and pick up where you left off! Thanks to everybody for the discussion... It' s still summertime, and I needed a little gun talk.

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

When you look at both guns and action other then the gas sytem which gets cleaned once a year or before a big hunt...maintenance is very similiar to that with a bolt action...I mean you have to clean out the locking lug recesses on a bolt gun don' t you why wouldn' t you do it on a semiauto.? The bolt has to be stripped down and cleaned occasionally and oiled etc etc very similiar maintenance. I am down in your neck of the woods a couple of times a year if you care to follow up on your bet....

RE: Convince me there is a real NEED for a semi
 

Are you talking about hunting in my neck of the woods, or do you just come down here for family/work/other? As an ' old elk hunter' , I' d actually be up to visiting you come bugling season. :D