coca_colaguy23

I have Glock 23 as my carry weapon , I admit if I am using the clip draw I installed I do not have a round in the chamber but in a good concealed holster I do . I have also seen a Colt combat commander go off in a holster with the safteys (3) on just by pushing the gun into the holster by the "heel" of the pistol grip .

Nomercy448

Not to stir the pot terribly, but this is one of my favorite topics.

I'll STRONGLY disagree that you have time to chamber a round in a SHTF situation.

Depending on what "attacker" you're planning to defend against, 6 seconds is likely WAY more time than you'll actually have.

If you spot a bear cub and hear an irritated mama bear off in the brush, yes, you might have time to draw your pistol and load a round. Or alternatively, she also might come rushing at full speed without warning from 30yrds away. A bear can charge at 25mph or faster, which means it can close 30yrds in 2 sec.

Or say you wake up in the middle of the night to find an intruder standing over your bed? A BIG bedroom is still only 15-18ft in one direction, so unless BOTH of your backs are against the wall, he can close that gap in less than 2 sec.

Test yourself sometime. Park two cars side by side as they would be in a parking lot. Stand at your driver's side door and act like you're unlocking your car. Have a friend walk up to the passenger door of car next to you. At this point, you just think he's getting in the car, but instead, he turns to grab you. How much time do you have to react?

Or say you're walking down the street and someone steps out of a side alley right in front of you. They're within arms reach before you even knew they were there. Is it just a delivery boy using the side exit, or is it a threat? Does he have a weapon already drawn on you? Does he have a weapon in his pocket? Is it a gun, or a knife? Should you draw your gun and fire, or should you throw a punch, or should you just run? Or is it really just a delivery boy?

Is less than 2 sec enough time for you recognize and process the danger, draw your gun, rack the slide, manipulate any safeties as needed, and engage the target to save your own life?

A few years ago, I challenged a State Patrolman with over 20yrs on the force that if I was within 10ft of him, he couldn't make a hit with an airsoft pistol FROM HIS DUTY HOLSTER before I could close the gap and deflect his muzzle. He couldn't. He could get shots off, but he couldn't make the hit.

The 21ft rule has been around for decades. For attacks within 21ft, an assailant with a knife has better odds than a defender with a gun. When you factor in reaction time, action time, and the precision required to make a debilitating stop, the sword is mightier than the gun.

Moral of the story, if you're carrying a weapon to defend your own life, you need to minimize the steps between "oh $hit" and "bang" as much as possible. I want something quickly accessible, and easy functioning. Point and click.

White-tail-deer

Well said!!

VAhuntr

You stand a chance on the 21 foot rule if your weapon is drawn from the holster and has a round chambered. I remember practicing these scenarios in the academy. If your weapon is holstered or a round not chambered, you are cut.

VAhuntr

That is enough reason for me to not carry my Glocks with the clip draw.

halfbakedi420

not at all...i feel what your saying, and totally agree. Better to be loaded. I think i could draw my gun in time and chamber a round and hit a target if necessary, but we will make a zip line with a sand bag, and let it go see if i can hit the target thats down range before it gets to me..so 21' is the distance that should be covered in 6 seconds time?

Nomercy448

6 seconds would be more like a 40yrd rule. MOST people can top 15mph, which is 22fps. 6sec is 44yrds...

The 21' rule was developed based on testing how far an attacker with a bladed weapon could cover and deliver a mortal blow in the same OR LESS time than the average officer could draw and fire a STOPPING shot with his weapon. The results were that at distances of 21ft or less, an assailant with a bladed weapon could close the gap and make a mortal blow faster than the officer could incapacitate them (yes, the officers DID make hits FIRST occasionally, but the attackers were not stopped fast enough to prevent the killing blow to the officer).

Most competitive shooters and trained professionals will have a TTFS (time to first shot) of about 1-1.5 seconds following a surprise alert. US Government studies show that average reaction time for drivers between a surprise stimulus (sudden red light, or a deer jumping in the road) and application of the breaks (NOT UNTIL STOPPED, just until hitting the break) is 1.3 sec... Seems to me it's a universal human average that 1-1.5 sec is what it takes for a human to process a surprise stimulus and react.

Again, 15mph sprint is 22fps, covering 21ft in about 1 sec.

So, to make an accurate test, you need to first purchase a shot timer, then go out and use the "random start" function. Draw your weapon at the beep, then fire at a target 21ft away, something simple to hit, like an IDPA/IPSC "Torso" target. You'll probably come up with about 1-1.5sec like the rest of us.

In that case, you'll need a travelling target to cover 21ft in 1sec.

On the other hand, a charging grizzly can top 30mph. That's 44fps. If they're charging out of the woods, before you spot them, you're talking about less than ONE HALF OF A SECOND to draw your weapon and save your own life. Even if we're generous and say they're only 15mph, that's still 22fps, so you're talking just under 1 sec of notice before you're in over your head.

So again, your sandbag should fly between 15-30mph, covering 21ft somewhere between 0.5 to 1.5 seconds.

And then you need to be able to draw and fire FASTER than it would reach you.

Big Bullets

Hard to believe that you cannot find 45 ACP. If there is a more common and available ammo, I do not know what it may be. Go on the internet; you can buy it by the case. Any sporting godds store will have it and, nothing has more ammo choices.

Police departments and the military have and are moving away from the 9mm as less effective than the 45. Most of the special ops have gone to 45s.

As to the Glock. It does have a safeties, they are just internal. During a recent qualification, I found that I was the only one with a manual safety on my pistol.

The 21 is big. Try the 23. The glocks are also good for people who are not able to pull a stiff trigger. In trying to find a hand gun for my wife, we discovered that fact.