Having custom rifle built....WSM or regular mag?
 

This is kinda' a "part 2" of my previous post called Hill Country Rifles.
Contacted Stiller's about their Predator action. Didn't realize they made a stainless/left hand/Predator for short mags.

Got me thinking...... .300 WSM with a 24" barrel. Slightly lighter and shorter than the .300 Winny.....but is it as good of a caliber.

Ballistics on it are impressive, but I'm thinking I've heard it operates at much higher pressure to get those ballistics.

Also heard that the .300 Winny is better for 200gr. and up bullets just from it's case capacity. Seems like I've read the WSM works well with 165's and 180's, but really lags with anything heavier.

Any input would be helpfull. A shorter, lighter rifle that still had PUNCH would be nice, but not if the caliber isn't going to give me much versitility.

Opinions please

think ya should decide by ballistics...ig bullet weight
some bullet weights arnt in wsm, as i was told.
somethin about 3600 fps with a 200 g bullet was what i remember..i may be wrong...cant get it in wsm, but ya can a mag

If it helps any, I would probably stay with 180's for most everything.
Ballistic Tips for whitetails, Accubonds for big hogs and bear. Barnes TXS's for elk and up.

Same here...Win Mag is proven itself many times over and will do everything a WSM does plus a little bit extra...

i had a rifle built in 6.5 wsm a few years ago, had it re barreled to 300 wsm. i dont have the rifle anymore but i overall wasnt impressed by it. in a long range rifle, heavy bullets are almost a must. that is something a 300 wsm doesnt do well. go for the .300 win mag if thats the class bullet you are going for. also, dont buy into this hype that short mags get the job done in a short barrel. if you try that all you get is alot of muzzleblast and alot of noise. when chambered in a long tube imo they just seem to have a certain refinement to the overall shot sequence.if you do want to get a shorty go for a 6.5 wsm. it can handle the heaviest bullets availible without the need for greatly reduced loads.

+1, there is no replacement for displacement. In my opinion the short mags are a soon to be passing fad. In my opinion they offer NO!!!! advantages over the standard mags that has been out for years.

Go with the 300 WSM, it handles a 210 Berger quite well and it is starting to DOMINATE the 1000 yard range in Williamsport, PA. it will send a 210 Berger out the end of the barrel at 2930 very easy, you can drive it harder but that seems to be the sweet spot. You build a 300 WSM with a 30" 11 twist barrel and throat it for 210's you will not be disappointed. The last on I built is DEADLY!! A 10 twist will work too. The first one I did has that and it works pretty good too.

I'm not knocking a 300 Win mag but just about everytime you see the 2 compete against each other the WSM comes out on top.

http://www.pa1000yard.com/results/to...=100&year=2010

At this match 3 of the top 10 were 300WSM's The 300 Morton is a very slightly altered 300WSM

http://southforkrifleclub.homestead....ipsunrelay.htm

Fritz, I was planning on bringing a WSM to the big shoot you were comming to:) I don't think the 300 WSM is a passing fad. Accuracy and efficiancy are second to none

+1

What RR said.............

And

"Same here...Win Mag is proven itself many times over.............." Jeepkid


.300 Win Mag - Why NOT ?

FYI:
Most hunters who use the .300 on deer and pronghorn prefer 150 grain bullets, but a 180 grain spitzer shoots almost as flat and destroys less of the eating part. The single best load for elk and moose may just be the 200 grain Nosler Partition or 200 grain Speer bullets pushed to 2984 fps by H1000.

Reload Bench

Bring it, I have a 300 RUM that will make short work of that! IMHO short mags are junk that was brought out to sell rifles in a failing economy were people were not buying guns, they offer no real advantage over any standard mag that is already been out for several decades, its a fad that has been created, and promoted by gun writers that are paid by gun manufactors. Matter of fact, I have a 30-06 I would not hesitate shooting against it, velocity doesnt meen squat as long as you know your trajectory and know how to shoot. Why dont you tell me were the 300 WSM has ANY advatages over a 300 Win Mag. That is pretty much like saying a 7mm-08 will out do a 280, or a 308 will out do a 30-06, or a 40S&W will out do a 10mm. There is no comparison especially when you get to the heavier bullets.

I like the WSM's, particularly the 270 and 300wsm

IMO and I have a .300win.mag. I'm never going to shoot 200gr bullets out of it, 180's all day long for everything, nothing lighter, nothing heavier. Sure the .300win.mag. beats the .300wsm with 200gr bullets, but again if I need more bullet, ie 200 or 220gr from a 300, velocity won't be the deciding factor, like Africa...bigger over lighter/faster. and again I'm not going to be loading my .300win.mag with a 200 or 220 for brown bear etc...even moose? I'd either use 180grs, or I'd go to a bigger caliber, 338, 375.

Personally I'm liking smaller handier rifles these days, 26" magnums, long actions, no thanks.

a 24" WSM with a short action is very nice IMO.

they are loaded at higher pressures.

personally I just like everything about the WSM's, short action, no belt, just a great designed round IMO.

and once again, why would you or anyone else be shooting 200 or 220gr bullets from a .300win.mag? especially nowadays with the great designed quality bullets available in 180grs.

Also, it depends what you're comparing, do you want every last bit of performance? then get a .300 RUM or Wby probably with 26", some are even say 30" for the RUM, I don't know about you, I barely can stand 26" barrels on a hunting rifle, let alone a 30", least not to walk around with.

If you want a handy lighter weight rifle, how does the .300wsm compare to the .308 short action or .30-06 long action?

Efficiency, first and foremost, both my WSM’s shoot 210 Bergers at 2930fps with 61 grains of H4350. I have a Win Mag that shoots 190 SMK’s just over 2900fps with 70.4 grains of RE22. Now any gun that will shoot a heavier bullet faster with less powder has to have something going for it.

As far as a 300 WIN Mag handling a heavier bullet better you will need to explain that one, a Win Mag will handle a 240 SMK and a WSM won’t but I don’t see that much more advantage in the 240 vs. the 210 in their respective guns. The 210 makes up the difference in speed from the WSM where the WM can’t drive the 240 fast enough to make that much difference.

Don’t get me wrong, I really like the WM and think it’s a great gun but the WSM’s are here to stay.

A 300 RUM? Yep that has many advantages over the WSM and the WM but to flat out beat either one in accuracy, I doubt it. It will hold it’s own for sure but to claim it will make short work of a WSM, no way!

Hodgdon load data:
300 RUM- 150gr bullet, 106.0 gr of RETUMBO= 3531fps
300 WIN- 150gr bullet, 78.0 gr of IMR 4831= 3289fps
300 WSM- 150gr bullet, 74.0 gr of SUPRFORM= 3410fps
300 RSAUM - 150gr bullet, 65.5gr of H414 = 3201fps

Short mags are shorter, lighter guns and not powder hogs, and what most long range comp. shooters are using to win 1000yd matches. 300 rums do have a place. Since i no interest in hunting the great bears, a 300 RUM is not necessary. And i bought a Rem700 LSS 300 Win before the short mags came out, so i don't need another mag but if i didn't have one, a WSM would be it.

Exactly how much shorter and lighter is a 300WSM than a 300Win mag in the same gun? I am all for a effecient hunting cartridge, that is why I shoot a 280 and not a 7mm mag, the 7 mag doesnt do hardly anything a 280 cant do other than burn alot of powder. My opinion on the short mags is not changed however. I personaly wont own one, my boss has a 300SAUM, I have shot it, I dont like it, he doesnt like it, said he would never own another short mag of any kind, it doesnt feed worth a damn out of the magazine, in the cold weather with gloves on the short fat cases are harder to load in the short action, brass cost more for it, alot less selection of factory loadings for it, more expensive factory loadings than a 300 Win mag, and who knows how long they will be arround, the 300 win mag has been arround for quite some time and isnt going anywhere.

It is 100% true that short fat cartridges are inherently more accurate then their longer counterparts, that said, pick whichever one you like. Either will kill an animal the same!

I also agree that the WSM's are here to stay, but if I was in the market for a .30 cal (I never will be) I would step up to the .300 RUM...

Ahh Jeepkid, you better never buy a good 30 Cal. I used to say the same thing; I'll never own one of those blasted things. Now I have a whole arsenal of them. The BC of those big bullets is too hard to beat.

No doubt the RUM is almost the KING of the 30's, it ranks right up there with the 30-378 and the multiple Weatherby improved casings. I have an improved version of the RUM that will beat the ballistics of the 30-378. They both have downfalls, the brass for the 30-378 is just about unaffordable and the brass for the RUM is hard to come by, Barrel life on both sucks. But when you can send a 240 grain SMK out over 2900fps and have 1500ftlbs of energy at a 1000 yards, that’s just plain impressive

RR, the numbers I posted are accurate and shot over a crony, Granted my WSM's are full out customs, but the WM is a Sendaro. There just isn't any argument, the WSM is more efficiant. In a WM you need 9 extra grains of powder to drive a bullet that weighs 20 grains less the same speed as the WSM. I'm not saying the WM cannot achive the same speed, it just takes more powder to do so.

I don't think I will ever buy another .30 cal (already have a .300 Win and a WSM), I prefer a 7mm for under 200gr bullets and if you need a 200+ gr bullet then the .338's can't be beat...

But again, an animal won't EVER know the difference between any of them :happy0001:

I get 3100fps with 180gr accubond and RL22 in my 300win mag. I have yet to see anyone do that and accurately with a WSM.

RR, what now you don't belive me?? I didn't even look at the Hodgdon data, If that is the same then I guess so. Actually it's 2929 with a 10 shot average. I can run it hotter but that is where it shots best. Your not comparing apples to apples, I don't care what a 308 or 06 does because neither compares to what were talking about.

Bottom line is if you put equal amounts of powder in a WSM and a WM the WSM will shoot faster. I'm not agruing that one is superior to the other but a WSM will hold it's own against the WM, That's just a fact you or nobody else can argue.

+*updated*

No it wont, It does with a 150 or 165gr. bullet but step up to the heavier longer bullets were the B.C. is optimal, it has to be seated farther in the case because of the short action. You loose case capacity, which in turns means lower velocity. The bigger case will always come out on top. If you built it on a long action with a longer throat, so you could seat the bullets out farther, but you cant do that with a short action unless you have a single shot bolt gun.

Great comparison Ridge Runner! LMAO!!!

And chambering a WSM in a long action makes as much sense as Obamalamadingdong getting the Nobel Peace Prize!!

Haha...that's assuming either one will even start!!

Depending on the powder used. You can get 6 to 8 grains more powder in a 300 Win Mag case than you can a 300 WSM. So there is a bit of difference in reloading. Using the exact same powder in both cases the 300 Win Mag wins that argument hands down. Shoulder design may have the advantage to the short mag but if it out gains the Win Mag using the same powder charge then it also means it wins the pressure category too and that's not a good thing. I've studied both and the amount of difference isn't worth arguing about until you hit the reloading bench.

i have 2 short mags one chambered 243 and a 300.my buddy is a competition shooter and has put these 2 guns together for me thet both have kreiger barrels and bat actions and hs precision stocks with 8 twist barrels and i had him make barrels short for easier hunting with out 200 yards the 300 punches holes at .750 for the 300 and the 243 is .675 thats good enough reason to own a short mag in my opion.

What .243? A WSSM or is it based on a WSM?

Now, I have reloaded for one WSM and two 300win mags. And I have to say the WSM didn't seem quite as finicky as the win mags. But for me and my style of hunting. I could throw either in the air and hunt with either.

my hart rifle in 300 hart doesnt shoot that well which to me really aint no difference than a 300 win mag,

its a 243 wssm sorry still a short mag to me my buddys the gun building nut i just shoot them lol

Oh okay...you peaked my interest at the thought of a .243 WSM...:s2:

I'll take a .300WSM if you please, or a 7mm... If you're shooting 1,000yrd matches, you're not likely shooting either, but there are more and more guys going to a steep shoulder case design, seeing "less finicky" performance for the reloader, as well as allowing the shooter to use a short action, instead of a long action rifle.

I have a .300WSM savage 12 and a sleeved Rem 700 PSS .300WM, my WSM sees a lot more range time these days, as well as pulling duty as my long range deer and coyote "go-to" rifle.

But that's just my 2 cents on the matter, your mileage may vary...

wsm or win.
 

Ten years ago I had Bruce Baer one of the best gun smiths in the us build me a 300 win. After 8 years of hard recoil I had it rechambered to 300 WSM. 63 1/2 grains of IMR 4350 a Hornady 190 sbt three shot average 3011 fps. 1/2 inch groups 25 in. barrel. 180 sst. 64 1/2 IMR 4350 3076 fps. 3/4 in. group. 150 Ballistic tip 60 gr. Varget 3197
fps. 7/8 in group. The hart barrel has about 2000 rounds on it. The recoil is about 40% less then the win. mag. The gun weight is about 9 1/2 lbs. I will carry this gun for elk till I am too old to climb the mounain. Hope this helps.

A 9 1/2 lb mountain rifle will make you old before your time ! LOL

their is a big difference between the 2. The WSM will do what the belted mag will do maybe up to 100 fps but not more but only needs 24" barrel to do it. All Belted mags need 26" barrels.
Basically it boils down to this, One is based of slow burning powders and the other is based of fast burning ball powders. Winchester says the short fat case design is more efficient but I haven't seen any numbers on it.
Sure is nice to have a short action on a Mag cal. for once.


I have a .300 WSM on a Winchester M70 feather weight 20" barrel, they were the $500 models sold at wall mart. It weighs just 6 lbs! LOL, my poor shoulder! just kidding my Mossberg 100 atr 20" light barrel in 30-06 kicks worse than this thing does.
I wish I bought one in a longer barrel though and maybe step up to the 325.
Did you know they all had #10 twist bores on them? that means 180 grain bullets at least maybe 200 grain at the top end. That sits right nice on the lightest for cal. 325 wsm bullets.

P.S. my factory 150 grain 300 wsm ammo had a surprising number of shells that went over pressure. I had about 1/4 box of factory ammo bulge out the primer. yeashhhh