7mm08 all around cartridge?
 

I was reading an article writen by Chuck Hawks about his top 4 picks for all around cartridges. They were 30-06,308 7mm mag & the 270. The 7mm08,amongst a few others didn't make the "short list" mainly due to ammo availibilitiy. Which was one of the critierias for the cartridge selection.

The cartridges that Chuck Hawks selected were for non dangerous game in North & South America,Europe & Africa.

My question is do you feel the 7mm08 is capable of taken all non dangerous game in North America assuming you dont push the limits?

Hunting just the eastern U.S.
 

I wouldn't think twice about using the 7mm08. In some areas, I can see why the 7mm08 wasn't selected. In many hands, probably not.

However a man by the name of Bell hunted African elephants with a fairly similar 7mm Mauser. But many hunters are not Bell.

In some hands, a rifle may be adequate. In most, the expert will look for some more power. Especially if there is an alternative.

7mm-08 is an awesome caliber IMO. I can see how it did not make the list when you talk about one caliber to handle all types of game and terrain. However, for Deer sized game or even elk, the 7mm-08 is a great caliber which can be shot out to 400 yards without hesitation.

I agree with you guys,this round really has my interest.Ammo availibility in my neck of the woods is good.

7mm-08 may well be the most versatile round out there.

Well with ammo availability being a criteria those choices are probably pretty good. I like the 7-08 too but there are many other chamberings that would fill the bill if the ammo wasn't an issue. The .280, any of the 300 mags, 338 mag, 8mm Mauser and 8mm Mag etc. I just love options

I would take the 7-08 over any of those.

Yes, but the same could be said of almost any cartridge from the 30-30 on up. The 7-08 is a very good whitetail cartridge, and is adequate on the larger non-dangerous game.
It is a good all-around choice. If you handload there are better all-around choices, and if you have to find factory ammo there are better all-around choices. I mean no offense to 7-08 users, but once you get past whitetail deer there are some better choices.

Please,feel free to give your opinion because there are a few other that I've got in mind.

Should whitetail be your primary concern with an occasional black bear, mule deer and antelope hunt possible, I would have no qualms about the 7-08 for it all. I've killed my share of deer and black bear with almost any cartridge you can name over the years, and have settled on the 7-08 to do it all anymore. I would, however, want something a little larger for elk and griz. That's why I keep the .338 Win Mag tuned up.

Elk would be a possibility in the future but not a steady thing. The .338 would be out of the question becauuse of the recoil. I own a .243 and was looking to move up in cal. but still want it to be an all around caliber.
two other choice high on my list are the .270 & .308.I'm leaning more toward the short action rifles though.
The ballistics on the 7mm-08 are very simular to the 7mm Mauser and that round has taken its share of elk.

I like the long action choices for versatility. They can usually be loaded to better handle heavier bullets, and you can find factory ammo everywhere. If this was my choice it would be a .30-06 or .270 if I did not reload, and a .30-06 or .280 if I loaded my own ammo. The 7mm Mag would also be a nice fit to go with your .243.

If you stay East of the Mississippi a .308 is a beautiful thing, as is the 7-08. Hunting the Rockies and the open plains would make me want a bit more. I am sure that the 7 Mauser and 7-08 cartridges have taken elk, but I have not seen anyone carry one in any my elk camps in the past 40+ years. Most guys want to shoot a fairly heavy bullet like a 160 grain 7mm or a 180 grain 30 caliber, and want to shoot it as fast as possible.

What you're saying Big Uncle makes sense. Makes me regret selling my .06 even more now. But it don't suck having to buy a new rifle either.I think if it came down to the .06 or .270 I'd go with the .270 only because I never owned a rifle chambered in it. Is there much of a recoil difference between the two? The older I'm getting the less recoil I'm liking.

The recoil charts indicate that the .270 is a bit less than the .30-06 due to the generally lighter bullet (something like 15% less recoil), but to me the .270 seems much more pleasant to shoot. This fall I had two rifles on the range preparing for an elk hunt. One was a .300 Win Mag and the other was a light weight .270 Win. The difference in recoil was like night and day. It really made me appreciate the gentle push of the .270.

Amen to that !! I help a guy site in a Savage in 300 win mag @ the range a few months back.It's more gun than I like to shoot.Anyway we get the gun zeroed and the guy says "I'm gonnas sell this gun it kicks to hard" Wish he told me that before I beat up my shoulder.....lol !
Thanks for your input Big Uncle.

I anyone in this thread reloads for the 7mm-08 I have a once used RCBS Precision Mic for sale like brand new. $40 includes shipping CONUS. I had it in a Browning A-Bolt Micro-Medallion and it was a sweet, light weight little gun. Wished I never sold it.

http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...D=GSHOP_424601

I was told that the 7mm-08 was a knecked-down .308....still its a nice Rifle to have.I bought a Savage 7mm-08 111 GCNS Bolt-Action with the Accu-trigger and the recoil wasn't as bad as my 30-06 but still a little noticeable.I was considering getting the "Managed Recoil" shells from Remington and letting my Daughters use the 7mm-08 during their Youth Deer Hunts but the Managed Recoil shells were on back order for over 2 months so I ended up sighting the Rifle in with regular 140 grain shells.


I think a Regular .270 Rifle would have even less felt recoil than the 7mm-08?I've talked with several of my Hunting Friends and they really like their .270 Rifles and the shells are easy to get and have a lot more choice to pick from.

All else equal a .270 will kick slightly harder than the 7-08.

I get mix reviews on the recoil of a 7mm08.Some guys say it kicks as hard as their .308 in the same rifle others say it's a little less. According to a recoil chart it kicks about the same as a .35REM.I hate to buy it and find out the recoil is the same as .270,which is another caliber high on my list.
Most of long action guns are a bit heavier than the short action counterpart so that will reduce felt recoil.

I have both a 7mm-08 and a 308 and recoil is about the same. Both Savage rifles with the 308 being syn/stainless and the 7 wood and blued. That being said i would take the 308 all day. 30 cal bullet, more options in bullet choices and ammo everywhere. I used to really like the 7mm-08 but since i bought the 308 it stays on the shelf for now. Again, recoil feels exactly the same to me. The 7mm-08 actually feels sharper with recoil which i don't care for.

Ok thanks for the info Semi. You're not the first guy to say that about the 7-08 & 308

So, what you are saying is that you are looking to buy a rifle based on the percieved recoil & not the perfomance of the caliber and cartridge ?

There are many ways to tame recoil....................but at least you're honest !

For me the recoil will have an effect on the preformance.

Comparing the recoil of the 7mm08 and the .308 assuming similar bullet weights and rifle weights is REALLY splitting hairs...

Also, every .270 I have shot has kicked a little harder than the 7mm08s I have shot, but that's splitting hairs also, as is comparing PERFORMANCE of the 7mm08 and .270, with similar bullet weights...

I think what he is asking is what is a good all around cartridge that will be enough with recoil that is on the lighter side. A 308, 7mm-08 or 270 should all be pretty close in recoil. But if you are going to say they are all the same, you would probably want to get the most versitile round you can. All 3 of these work well for versitility. I just chose the 308 as i see it as the most versitile of all 3 with very manageable recoil. Slap a good recoil pad on any of these and it really tames them down.

To me the 270 is probably the most recoil. I have shot plenty of them and really they seem close to my 30.06.

Thats exactly what I'm talking about. Due to upper back injury recoil has become an issue. I had to give up shooting sporting clays because it would aggrevate my back.When I go to the range I shoot a box of shells out of my 243 and there is no problem at all. Maybe I can shoot a 30.06 {it's what I used to shoot}but I don't want to buy one{sold my .06 a while ago}and fine out it's gonna aggrevate my back.
The 3 cartridges I was interested in are the 7-08,308 & 270.The reason I start this thread is because according to recoil charts the 7-08 is suppose to have 4-5lbs less recoil than the 270 & 308. Roughly about the same as a .35rem,which I own and have shot with no problem.
So if 7-08's recoil is about the same as the 270 or 308 I will go with either one of those rounds.Only because I dont reload as of yet and 270 & 308 is cheaper and a little more availible im my area.

Thank for input guys I appreciate it Anymore suggestions or advice is welcome

Per the Chuck Hawks recoil table:

1. .270 Win. 130 gr. 8.0 lb. rifle: 16.5 ft lbs of recoil energy
2. .270 Win. 140 gr. 8.0 lb. rifle: 17.1 ft lbs of recoil energy
3. 7mm-08 140 gr. 8.0 lb. rifle: 12.6 ft lbs of recoil energy
4. .308 Win 150 gr. 7.5 lb. rifle: 15.8 ft lbs of recoil energy
5. .30-06 150 gr. 8.0 lb. rifle: 17.6 ft lbs of recoil energy

I have personal experience with the rounds in #'s 1,3, and 5, all shot through Remington 700 ADL's with synthetic stocks, and the numbers posted by Hawks seem to correlate well with actual felt recoil. The .270, to me, kicks noticeably harder than the 7mm-08.

Ballistics.... I think the 7mm has a slight edge as well. Not quite as flat as a 130 gr. .270, but, retains more energy down range...



.270 Win
130 gr. PSP

Muzzle 100 200 300 400 500
3060 2776 2510 2259 2022 1801
2702 2225 1818 1472 1180 936
1.5 zero -2.8 -20.9 -43.3


7mm-08
140 gr. PSP

2860 2625 2402 2189 1988 1798
2542 2142 1793 1490 1228 1005
1.8 zero -3.1 -22.9 -46.8


.308 Win
150 gr. PSP

2820 2533 2263 2009 1774 1560
2648 2137 1705 1344 1048 810

2.0 zero -3.4 -26.2 -54.8

Yup,those are the charts I was referring to.
Notice the 308 is in a 7.5lb rifle & the 7mm08 is in an 8lb rifle.I'm wondering how much recoil would be reduced if the 308 was in a 8lb rifle.
Being you have experience with the 3 calibers I'm interested in which on do you like the best.Mainly this gun will be used as a backup deer rifle to my 243. But I have a friend that owns property in Montana and I have an open invitation to hunt elk there.But I aslo go to the range & shoot so I dont want something that's gonna beat the hell out of my back.

I also should have mention the elk hunting is in mostly woodland not much shooting long distances across meadows.

It would have been nice if Mr. Hawks had used the same weight rifle for all those cartridges. I suspect the .308 would still kick slightly harder than the 7mm-08, even if in the slightly heavier rifle. Of the three, I like the 7mm-08 best. Excellent compromise between recoil and down range power. As you can see from the ballistics I posted above, despite having a slight advantage at the muzzle, the .308 already has less energy than the 7mm at 100 yards. It takes a while longer for the 7mm-08 to pass the .270, but, it does, at about 300 yards... The .270 is a little flatter shooting, but, by only a couple inches at 400 yards.

For deer, I give the 7mm the edge. Elk become a slightly different story as the 140 gr 7mm and the 150 gr. .308 become more marginal, and the .308 with heavier bullets available over the counter gets a slight edge. I'm sure the 7mm-08 will still do the job, if you wait for the right shot. But, most folks seem to prefer a slightly heavier bullet for elk (although some folks on here have used 100 gr. .243's with success).

I use my 7mm-08 for deer and hogs, using the 140 gr. Remington PSP's, so haven't even looked at whether there are any "premium" bullets available. Generally, it's hard enough finding the Remmy green boxes, so EVERY time I'm at the store and see some, I pick up a couple boxes. I've probably got enough now for several lifetimes of deer seasons... The .270 and .308 get a bit of an edge in ammo availability.

I, too, am recoil averse. One of the reasons I love my .243. The 7mm is comfortable for me. Whereas my buddy's .270 was significantly less so... very close to my .30-06, and maybe a tad "sharper." My experience with a .308 has been in my much heavier M1A National Match rifle, so, a felt recoil comparison doesn't really correlate to my Model 700s.

All that being said.... I'd get the 7mm-08 without hesitation, and try to keep elk shots within 250-300 yards...

The make & model of the rifle has more to do with "percieved" recoil than any of the calibers and/or cartridges mentioned.

..... Any chance at all that you can shoot someone else's 7-08 and see how you do? I know.. I know.. stock configuration, weight, brand, etc.. but at least you could get an idea....

I'd modify that statement a bit. i.e. How particular makes and models of rifle "fit" a particular shooter can impact perceived recoil.

My statement above was based on shooting several different cartridges (.243, .270, 7mm-08, and .30-06) out of identically stocked and padded Model 700 ADL's. Based on that experience, the recoil tables appear to me to be reasonably accurate and are a good starting point for assessing relative recoil.

Thank-you ipscshooter,my oringinal train of thought was to go with 7-08 and I think I'm gonna stick with it.

Good luck with your new rifle. If you can find that special load that your rifle likes, you might want to lay in a supply. You will not find 7-08 ammo easily everywhere.

Did you ever consider having one of the premium recoil pads installed? I have them on my big rifles and they are worth the price.

Your right,thats the biggest down side to that caliber.By me the big sporting goods carry it and so do the small gun shops,so locally it's availible.
Now I just got to decided which rifle I'm gonna buy.

I hope I can ..........the only one I ran into was a guy that needed help siteing in a 300win mag. I didn't care for the recoil on that gun to much!!

its pretty simple, this aint rocket science, more powder equals more recoil. The 30-06 and .270 arent known to be mules, but they do kick somewhat, the 7-08 can run neck and neck with the .270 with less powder, which equals less recoil.
Ammo selection aint the greates though, lots of options in the 140 gr range but thats it.
The 7-08 doesnt do anything fancy, it isnt a screamer, isnt the flattest shooting but its a .308 based case which makes it very accurate, its what a 7 mag is at minus 100 yds.

The 7mm08 cartriged, even though a humongus variety, is a versitiale round that should be on that list and the list of best cartriges in the world.