Help with scope choice
09-30-2010, 11:11 AM
#12
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 220
I personally like the Burris over the other two. The Bushnell 3200 being a close second. I also second the suggestion of the 4200 if you can spring it.
As far as magnification goes there is no reason in the world that a big game rifle needs more than 10X magnification. 10X magnification is enough to get you to 500+ yards on a deer sized target. A general purpose big game rifle with a variable scope should have a magnification range that starts out lower than 5X or 6X. You will need the low end many more times than you will need the 15X or 16X.
As far as magnification goes there is no reason in the world that a big game rifle needs more than 10X magnification. 10X magnification is enough to get you to 500+ yards on a deer sized target. A general purpose big game rifle with a variable scope should have a magnification range that starts out lower than 5X or 6X. You will need the low end many more times than you will need the 15X or 16X.
At the same time, since the antler restrictions - a deer now must have 4 points to one side to be legal. I have passed on several trophy deer - even ones that were limping - just because I could not put the 4th point on the rack.
We are not talking about sitting in a blind on posted property here or in the middle of a food plot or next to a deer feeder. I am talking real world conditions. As I have said in the past - I have shot a lot of deer, I have used a lot of guns and I have owned a lot of scopes.
I hear all these people who say that they use a 2.5X scope and stuff to hunt deer, and maybe for them that is fine. But in a real world situation where you have 3 - 5 seconds to determine is it legal and can I shoot it - you are going to need a scope that not only points the barrel where you are looking - but also confirms that what you are about to shoot is indeed legal.
Maybe I am the only one her - but every time I pull the trigger, I always wonder - did I shoot the right deer and was it the one that had the antlers. Especially if it was running with one or two other legal deer. Until I walk up to the deer and confirm that it is indeed the deer that I was shooting at and that it was a legal buck, I worry that I might have shot the wrong deer or that I missed or that I did not shoot it where I intended. All these things races through my mind.
The last thing I would want to do is to have to worry that the deer wasn't legal or that I shot the wrong deer and would have to turn myself into the Game Warden.
4x is about at the minimum end that I see anyone in Pennsylvania with a scope use and as a person gets more confident - they might turn their scope up to 5 for normal everyday hunting. But if the deer is down on the other end of a long pipe line or power line - you always see hunters try to turn their scope up as high as possible - to give them the best possible shot. Once you shot with a 15x scope - you will take that 9x scope and mount it on your .22 rifle.
I have never seen a person wish that they could turn target knobs to adjust for windage or elevation when most shots are taken at 40 - 60 yards.
09-30-2010, 11:24 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
Here is a great writeup that I highly recommend you take a look it. I've tested a couple of the scopes he talks about here and my experience mimicks his. So it's not just some bs made up because of brand loyalty like most of this thread.
http://opticstalk.com/inexpensive-sc...opic21176.html
That being said, I wanted to review a Nikon Prostaff also and see if my opinion was the same as his, so I did, and sure enough here were my thoughts on it.
http://opticstalk.com/nikon-prostaff...opic25460.html
The Burris FFII is my favorite scope I've used in that price range range, but I've not used the Vortex Diamondback. Another option to consider is right now some of the Vortex Vipers are on clearance, and they are a much much better scope than any of the ones you listed.
http://opticstalk.com/inexpensive-sc...opic21176.html
That being said, I wanted to review a Nikon Prostaff also and see if my opinion was the same as his, so I did, and sure enough here were my thoughts on it.
http://opticstalk.com/nikon-prostaff...opic25460.html
The Burris FFII is my favorite scope I've used in that price range range, but I've not used the Vortex Diamondback. Another option to consider is right now some of the Vortex Vipers are on clearance, and they are a much much better scope than any of the ones you listed.
09-30-2010, 12:50 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
I agree with Bigbulls about saving a little extra money for the 4200. The 3200 is definitely the best on the list, but the 4200 is well worth the wait.
That said, I disagree that big game rifles never need more than a 10x scope, especially out to 500+ yrds. I personally am on the other side of things. None of my hunting rifles have less than a 4-16x glass, and I almost NEVER use the scopes below 10x. Even at ranges less than 100yrds, I crank up the magnification as high as I can. The only time I zoom out is if the animal is too big to fit in the field of vision, which is pretty dang close (FOV for a normal 24x40mm scope at 100yrds is about 6ft, plenty of room to fit a deer!)
It's a cheesy line from a crazy guy's movie, but "aim small, miss small". If your scope only zooms tight enough to see a deer, and you aim at a deer, you'll probably hit the deer... SOMEWHERE... But if your scope zooms tight enough to pick out it's shoulder blade, and you aim just below and behind the shoulder blade, you'll probably hit the vital area, instead of just hitting the deer. The difference in a 3-9x and a 6-24x scope at 100 yrds is the difference in aiming at a deer, vs aiming at it's heart. I'd rather aim at it's heart.
That said, I disagree that big game rifles never need more than a 10x scope, especially out to 500+ yrds. I personally am on the other side of things. None of my hunting rifles have less than a 4-16x glass, and I almost NEVER use the scopes below 10x. Even at ranges less than 100yrds, I crank up the magnification as high as I can. The only time I zoom out is if the animal is too big to fit in the field of vision, which is pretty dang close (FOV for a normal 24x40mm scope at 100yrds is about 6ft, plenty of room to fit a deer!)
It's a cheesy line from a crazy guy's movie, but "aim small, miss small". If your scope only zooms tight enough to see a deer, and you aim at a deer, you'll probably hit the deer... SOMEWHERE... But if your scope zooms tight enough to pick out it's shoulder blade, and you aim just below and behind the shoulder blade, you'll probably hit the vital area, instead of just hitting the deer. The difference in a 3-9x and a 6-24x scope at 100 yrds is the difference in aiming at a deer, vs aiming at it's heart. I'd rather aim at it's heart.
10-01-2010, 04:06 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: VA, USA
Posts: 3,116
I agree with Bigbulls about saving a little extra money for the 4200. The 3200 is definitely the best on the list, but the 4200 is well worth the wait.
That said, I disagree that big game rifles never need more than a 10x scope, especially out to 500+ yrds. I personally am on the other side of things. None of my hunting rifles have less than a 4-16x glass, and I almost NEVER use the scopes below 10x. Even at ranges less than 100yrds, I crank up the magnification as high as I can. The only time I zoom out is if the animal is too big to fit in the field of vision, which is pretty dang close (FOV for a normal 24x40mm scope at 100yrds is about 6ft, plenty of room to fit a deer!)
It's a cheesy line from a crazy guy's movie, but "aim small, miss small". If your scope only zooms tight enough to see a deer, and you aim at a deer, you'll probably hit the deer... SOMEWHERE... But if your scope zooms tight enough to pick out it's shoulder blade, and you aim just below and behind the shoulder blade, you'll probably hit the vital area, instead of just hitting the deer. The difference in a 3-9x and a 6-24x scope at 100 yrds is the difference in aiming at a deer, vs aiming at it's heart. I'd rather aim at it's heart.
That said, I disagree that big game rifles never need more than a 10x scope, especially out to 500+ yrds. I personally am on the other side of things. None of my hunting rifles have less than a 4-16x glass, and I almost NEVER use the scopes below 10x. Even at ranges less than 100yrds, I crank up the magnification as high as I can. The only time I zoom out is if the animal is too big to fit in the field of vision, which is pretty dang close (FOV for a normal 24x40mm scope at 100yrds is about 6ft, plenty of room to fit a deer!)
It's a cheesy line from a crazy guy's movie, but "aim small, miss small". If your scope only zooms tight enough to see a deer, and you aim at a deer, you'll probably hit the deer... SOMEWHERE... But if your scope zooms tight enough to pick out it's shoulder blade, and you aim just below and behind the shoulder blade, you'll probably hit the vital area, instead of just hitting the deer. The difference in a 3-9x and a 6-24x scope at 100 yrds is the difference in aiming at a deer, vs aiming at it's heart. I'd rather aim at it's heart.
Got to disagree with you here. I have a Zeiss Conquest 3-9X40 that I can plainy see .277 caliber bullet holes with at 100 yards at 9x.
For all those in the high power scope club, how do hunters ever kill deer with straight 4x and 6x scopes? Hunters have been using them for years and continue to do so.
10-01-2010, 06:40 AM
#17
Spike
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 67
Scope choice?
Mr. Deer Hunter,
I was not "comparing" anything. I was making an assessment of a company's quality and customer service based on past experience as it contributed to my "choice". I don't expect anyone to make their choice based solely on my or anyone elses "opinion". Over the years I have used Burris, Bushnell, Leupold, Simmons, Weaver, and Nikon optics.
Once again, IMHO for the dollar spent I haven't done better than NIKON.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!
I was not "comparing" anything. I was making an assessment of a company's quality and customer service based on past experience as it contributed to my "choice". I don't expect anyone to make their choice based solely on my or anyone elses "opinion". Over the years I have used Burris, Bushnell, Leupold, Simmons, Weaver, and Nikon optics.
Once again, IMHO for the dollar spent I haven't done better than NIKON.
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!
10-02-2010, 07:43 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
Yes, a 3-9x is a great all around deer hunting scope, for the average hunter that will only ever shoot beyond 150yrds a few times in a hunting career, and it's very budget friendly.
I'm personally the type that prefers to have the best equipment I can afford to help ensure precise placement of my bullets. A low quality 6-24x glass is NOT better to have than a high quality 3-9x, but if waiting a few months to save up the difference between a high quality 3-9x and a good-to-high quality 6-24x, I'm going to wait until I can afford the higher magnification.
But then again, I'm also the guy with a safe full of heavy barreled rifles, even for hunting, in preference to accuracy over affordability or comfort.
Consider this, MANY MANY competitions through history have featured open sighted rifles shooting 600-1000yrds. Many competitions still use this format. Also, countless NRA matches are shot with open sighted AR-15's, Garands, or M-1A's out to 600-1000yrds (AR-15 out to 600yrds: every marine that goes through recruit training). However, in open class 1000yrd competition, while an open sighted pedersolli sharps might do well in a buffalo rifle competition (20" plus gong's at 600-1000yrds), the HIGHLY magnified (30x-50x top end), highly modified custom bolt rifles win the day (5-8" groups at 1000yrds). Yes, the old .45-70's or the open sighted battle rifles CAN shoot fairly accurately that far, but NO, they are NOT the best equipment available to do it, and they CAN NOT compete with the modern specialized equipment.
Gimme a high mag glass any day.
Last edited by Nomercy448; 10-02-2010 at 07:48 AM.
10-02-2010, 06:20 PM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: VA, USA
Posts: 3,116
There were also many many years that hunters killed deer with a spear, but I won't be doing so any time soon.
Yes, a 3-9x is a great all around deer hunting scope, for the average hunter that will only ever shoot beyond 150yrds a few times in a hunting career, and it's very budget friendly.
I'm personally the type that prefers to have the best equipment I can afford to help ensure precise placement of my bullets. A low quality 6-24x glass is NOT better to have than a high quality 3-9x, but if waiting a few months to save up the difference between a high quality 3-9x and a good-to-high quality 6-24x, I'm going to wait until I can afford the higher magnification.
But then again, I'm also the guy with a safe full of heavy barreled rifles, even for hunting, in preference to accuracy over affordability or comfort.
Consider this, MANY MANY competitions through history have featured open sighted rifles shooting 600-1000yrds. Many competitions still use this format. Also, countless NRA matches are shot with open sighted AR-15's, Garands, or M-1A's out to 600-1000yrds (AR-15 out to 600yrds: every marine that goes through recruit training). However, in open class 1000yrd competition, while an open sighted pedersolli sharps might do well in a buffalo rifle competition (20" plus gong's at 600-1000yrds), the HIGHLY magnified (30x-50x top end), highly modified custom bolt rifles win the day (5-8" groups at 1000yrds). Yes, the old .45-70's or the open sighted battle rifles CAN shoot fairly accurately that far, but NO, they are NOT the best equipment available to do it, and they CAN NOT compete with the modern specialized equipment.
Gimme a high mag glass any day.
Yes, a 3-9x is a great all around deer hunting scope, for the average hunter that will only ever shoot beyond 150yrds a few times in a hunting career, and it's very budget friendly.
I'm personally the type that prefers to have the best equipment I can afford to help ensure precise placement of my bullets. A low quality 6-24x glass is NOT better to have than a high quality 3-9x, but if waiting a few months to save up the difference between a high quality 3-9x and a good-to-high quality 6-24x, I'm going to wait until I can afford the higher magnification.
But then again, I'm also the guy with a safe full of heavy barreled rifles, even for hunting, in preference to accuracy over affordability or comfort.
Consider this, MANY MANY competitions through history have featured open sighted rifles shooting 600-1000yrds. Many competitions still use this format. Also, countless NRA matches are shot with open sighted AR-15's, Garands, or M-1A's out to 600-1000yrds (AR-15 out to 600yrds: every marine that goes through recruit training). However, in open class 1000yrd competition, while an open sighted pedersolli sharps might do well in a buffalo rifle competition (20" plus gong's at 600-1000yrds), the HIGHLY magnified (30x-50x top end), highly modified custom bolt rifles win the day (5-8" groups at 1000yrds). Yes, the old .45-70's or the open sighted battle rifles CAN shoot fairly accurately that far, but NO, they are NOT the best equipment available to do it, and they CAN NOT compete with the modern specialized equipment.
Gimme a high mag glass any day.
You mention hunting with spears. I think Alabama has a spear season for deer. I would not mind trying that as I'm sure it would be very challenging.
10-02-2010, 07:11 PM
#20
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
Unless a person is hunting in the wide open there are gonna be many more times they will wish they had 2X or 3X magnification at the low end than 14X, 16X or 24X at the high end.
Trying to find that buck walking through heavy cover at 40 yards with that 6-24X is gonna be a hard thing to do.
If you have a bunch rifles that are set up for a variety of hunting situations like a bean field rifle, pronghorn rifle, varmint rifle, etc... then by all means set them up with high magnification if needed. But a general purpose rifle that may have to pull duty in everything from thick woods at bow ranges to 400 -500 yard shots in a food plot a 3-9X or 3-10X is perfect and all that is needed.
Trying to find that buck walking through heavy cover at 40 yards with that 6-24X is gonna be a hard thing to do.
If you have a bunch rifles that are set up for a variety of hunting situations like a bean field rifle, pronghorn rifle, varmint rifle, etc... then by all means set them up with high magnification if needed. But a general purpose rifle that may have to pull duty in everything from thick woods at bow ranges to 400 -500 yard shots in a food plot a 3-9X or 3-10X is perfect and all that is needed.