Nomercy

The reason your woodchuck stays where it is is because the bullet doesn' t actually ' hit' it, it goes through it, were the entire energy of the bullet transferred into the woodchuck at the same instant, then your WC' s going a LONG way, but it' s easier for the skin to rupture and organs to explode than to move the entire animal. One of my physics professors took us out to the Union square to demonstrate this one, he took his truck, an egg, and a football, had one of us drive at 35mph, then tossed the egg up in-front of the truck as it drove by, the egg splattered, longest spray was 6.5ft, then he took the football, and did it again, could have been a record field goal, it held intact. When a bullet hits something, it' s like the egg, it ruptures, and energy is wasted, whereas if the two objects reacted like billiard balls, a " perfectly" elastic collision following which both object move on at 100% present mass and condition (i.e. no new dents that would have acted like cushions, increasing the period of time over which the impact occurs, ever heard of collision cushion quarter panels?). Basically the bullet never really ' hits' anything (bone excluded, which hardly counts because it only acts as an instantaneous cushion), it changes between media, it can travel relatively easily through air, but when it enters the ' water' of the body, it slows down greatly, it' s kind of like a collision, but it' s buffered, the skin holds together a bit more than air, and the meat/organs do a little less, but they still let the bullet travel through, slowing it, not instantaneously stopping it.

If you shoot something hard, like a boulder, giving a billiard type rebound, it is possible that you could move it slightly, but then a system of frictions come into play. Ever notice how it is a whole lot easier to move something once you get it moving or rolling? These frictions are called static friction, rolling friction, and sliding friction. When you push on a box on the floor, everything is stuck together like velcro basically=static friction, once you get it moving, it doesn' t have time to rebond as well and the inertia of the box helps you move it, but friction is still present=sliding friction. When you start pushing your truck, it doesn' t want to move=static friction, once it gets rolling, the inertia of the truck helps you, and it becomes much easier=rolling friction...even the inertia of the wheels rolling aids you...that' s why you don' t usually see boulders shift at all when you ricochet a .22lr round off of them, it' s much easier to restart the bullet in the opposite direction against virtually nill friction, only that of air resistance, than to start the boulder moving against the ground, even if it isn' t sunk in a foot or two. Not to mention that your bullet ' expands' , acting as a cushion.

Physicists LOVE billiard balls and ice, the above is why.

Judson

Nomercy you are right, that is why I mentioned the Bullet proof vest. With the vest the energy is transfered to the vest not shed as the bullet passes through the target. By the way as with the foot ball analigy that vest has to give. If you wrap a vest around somthing hard and unyelding like a log even a .22LR will penetrate most of them.

338

Does anybody chamber this round (.366) in a factory rifle? ..Bill

Briman

I read a magazine article awhile back, it might have been by Carmichael, but I can' t remember, where they made a wooden box about the size of a deer' s torso, put 4 wooden legs on it about the same length and diameter as a deer' s legs, and filled the box with sand and rags to make it weight about 125 lbs or about what an average deer would weigh. They then shot the box with popular deer cartridges such as 30-30, 44 magnum, 30-06, 300 magnum 45-70, 12 guage slug and even a few much more powerful cartridges such as the 375 H&H. If I remember right, the box of sand stopped most if not all of the bullets, and none of the bullets knocked the contraption over even though it absorbed all of the bullet' s energy. A few of the more powerful rounds made the thing tip a little but did not knock it over. hitting the thing with a sledge hammer would have alot less ft-lbs of energy but could knock it over. Ft-lbs of energy is a good comparison but really has no bearing on what really happens in the terminal performace of a bullet in the real world.


BTW do a comparison with the amount of energy a squirrel absorbs when shot with a 12 guage in comparison with what a deer takes. It would be interesting to see how much energy it would take to take the head and neck completely off a deer with no remnants left behind

ELKampMaster

Briman,

You are right. There is more to measuring killing power than just Energy (ft lbs)!
Most folks are fond of arguing Energy Numbers because it a simple, numerical indicator but it certainly doesn' t tell the whole story.

We kicked this around earlier and discussed 4 different components to " killing power" :
1. Energy Theory (Again, Ft. Lbs.)
2. Momentum Theory (bullet weight, speed, and DIAMETER) i.e The Taylor Knock Out Index
3. Hydrostatic Shock (high velocity and preferrably not " punching through" )
4. Bullet Performance: Penetration, Expansion, Weight Retention, and Wound Channel

Of course now we don' t have a simplistic argument, er I mean " discussion" anymore -- people hate that....

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

iowabuckslayer

what do you guys think of the triggers on the browning rifles?i like them alot but im not spoiled like you all.my ruger has the crappiest trigger of anything i' ve ever shot. i have had pellet rifles with better triggers!

Judson

At present there are no factory rifles chambered for the .366 D.G.W. but we are working on that. The .366 is writen up in the tenth eddition of Cartridges of The World and an article just came out on it in the Safari Club magazine. We will have to see where it goes from here.

338

thanks judson .. I have the 8th eddition .. I will get the 10th .. I think it' s time to get that custom gun I always wanted .. What did you start with? ..Bill

ELKampMaster

Iowa,
I' m not sure how we got on over onto the subject of triggers. I can' t say anything about Browning; however, I would have to concur with you about Ruger. It is a mystery to me why one of the premier rifle makers in the USA would put such POS triggers on an other wise great rifle.

I had a Ruger Varmit rifle in the 70' s -- bad trigger -- gunsmith couldn' t help it out -- sold it. When I was looking at 416 Rigby' s I looked at the Ruger again, 25-30 years later trigger felt the same -- couldn' t believe it -- went with a CZ, ah.... much better (trigger)!

Judson,
I' m getting fond of the 416 Rigby as of late and I noticed that your 366 DGW is a necked down 416 Rigby case, interesting.... did they maintain the same 45 degree shoulder or did they give it a little more gradual taper? Ought to be quite the little " hammer" ! By the way, DGW.... Dangerous Game _________ what?

Never Go Undergunned
EKM

Judson

Ok, Here we go, D.G.W. stands for David G. Walker. He is the customer and friend I developed the cartridge for. It is a direct neck down of the .416 Rigby 45 degree shoulder and all. .366 is just about the optimum bore diameter for the Rigby case for efficiancy and the bullet weights 250, 270, 286, 300, all work well with this case. With Rigby pressures a 250 grain bullet will go around 3253 out of a 24" barrel and the 300 grain slug at better then 2900. If you run up to the pressures of the ultras (.338 &.375) The .366 D.G.W. will reach velosities of 3450 with a 250 and over 3100 with a 300 grain bullet. These pressure levels though defeat the purpose of the cartridge. The hole idea was to develop a cartridge that could be used at any temperature anywhere in the world, and you would not be under gunned no matter what you were hunting from deer sized game to the big five!!
As a custom rifle maker and the creator of this cartridge I will confess to being rather partial to it. But even so, its track record speaks for it self. Over 40 one shot kills on game from 100 pounds to pushing 1000 pounds both in the U.S. and South Africa. If you guys are intrested, the cheepest way to go is to get the dies from Hornady and rebarrel a Ruger #1 or go with the CZ 550.
By the way it is not a big deal to get a Ruger trigger down to around 3 pounds with little or no creep. You can also replace the trigger with a Timney or a Kiplinger single set trigger.


Thank you for your intrest in this cartridge.

Your Friend
Jud