RE: Small bores for big game
 

Just proves there are poor choices made all over the world and by all kinds of people.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

frizz, the way you talk you seem to be an expert that makes the right choices at all times. Maybe we should all shutup and hunt with whatever you hunt with, shoot what you shoot, and hell, maybe drive what you drive.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Hunting big game with 22' s....
243 recoil too much at a mere 8 to 10 pounds....
Wuff! That' s pretty rank!

I think frizzler is right on or near the mark! " Expert" or not you sure don' t have to imitate everything he does; however, there' s no crime in imitating common sense. Consider this.....

Come to Colorado and hunt our big game (including deer and antelope) with 22' s and the authorities will throw your arse in jail (where it belongs) and confiscate your varmit rifle (where it belongs). That' s not just an opinion it' s the LAW.

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

RE: Small bores for big game
 

It is often quoted here that the 30-30 has killed more game than any other cartridge. Invariably, the next post states the 30-30 has wounded and lost more game than any other cartridge. My manuals show you can attain similar energies from the 30-30 and .22. However, the .22 cal has 1/3 the weight. I' d take weight over energy anytime. If you want to add a higher level of skill, learn to hunt with a bow, you get a longer season to boot. Why take the chance of losing animals with a woefully underpowered (and illegal in many states) cartridge when so many better choices are available?

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Thats my point guys. These guys ain' t losin no game. And again if they are recovering thier game, then what does it matter. And hey if colorado would throw someone in jail over this, then I really don' t have much faith in the DNR commitee in that state. And besides, throwing someone in jail. Stupid waste of resources. Real hazard of society. Really startin to wonder about that state. isn' t this the same state that has the huge problem with inlines? Must be all the yuppies and ski' ers moving out there to aspen.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

BC, If legal, and these particular KY folks you know recover their game, good for them, they must be great shots and very patient. I hope you aren' t suggesting the one box per year shooter take his mini-14 out for deer.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Thats what I am telling you. Most of them I know are stalkers. The don' t hunt out of tree stands or stand hunt. But the other side of this, is they are on the draw (disability if you can call it that) and hunt almost every day during the season.

Mini14, I could care less. I am just not a big rule person.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

BJ (god bless' im) wud be right prowd wit y' all puttin' that ther yuppie " spin" on yer arguemnt. Don' t forget to mention John Denver records, movie stars, and the Peoples Republic Of Boulder -- not that any of it has anything to do with anything. Must be getting desperate. Modern inline muzzleloaders for hunting big game is alive and well in Colorado too -- so non-issue there. Jail time? Don' t worry, you' ll probably be out of jail by the next morning or same day if your lawyer is quick; however, you will go home with your wallet lighter and WITHOUT your .22 caliber varmit rifle.

Relevent to the discussion IS the fact that Colorado is blessed with abundant, public hunting areas (including tremendous mountain terrain), numerous big game species (these beloved deer included), and the largest elk herd in the world -- assets the likes of which Maryland will NEVER match -- and we' re serious about using RULES to protect it all from greenhorns and " pro' s" alike who don' t know which guns to bring and which guns to leave at home.

Never Go Undergunned
EKM

RE: Small bores for big game
 

I have yet to see ONE good reason for using any .22 on big game animals!
Being a good shot or not has nothing to do with it.
Maybe these people are LUCKY enough to recover all their game, then again, maybe the deer aren' t bleeding enough or dying within a mile from where they were shot.
There are a thousand ways to make a bad shot and cripple a deer, going into the woods intentionally undergunned should NOT be one of them!
None the less, I have asked for ONE good reason to use a .22 for deer hunting and have not heard one yet! As far as I know B&C doesn' t give extra points for killing the biggest game with the smallest bullet! Also, if someone is going to go spend money on a deer rifle, why buy a varmint gun?

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Good thing I am just in MD part of the time, and in Ky the other half or I might take offense. I move around to 5 different states. And hunt them all. Yea, I will give Colorado that. Great state. Just everytime I go to Denver to work (once or twice a year) or go anywhere near the parks when not working, its getting rarer and rarer for me to meet a good ole boy as the years pass.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

It is not to say that if the tool is too small that you can not do the job. It is to say that the odds are in the favor of the one with the propper size tool. I do not remember where I heard this , I think it is an old Chinese saying dealing with small bores

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Suppose a 125 lb. white-tail is standing broadside 25 yards from your tree stand. What could you use to make a killing shot? A long bow and a cedar shaft with a home made flint arrow head? A 45 cal flint lock and a patched round ball? A .243 with a 100 grain Nosler? A .22/250 with a 60 grain bullet loaded to 3500 ft/sec. ? A .300 Win. Mag. with a 150 grain bullet ? I think they would all probably do the job if the shooter did his part.

If the deer was a 300 lb. Alberta Monster buck and he was standing accross a hay field about 325 yards away I sure hope I would have the .300 win. mag. in my mits, as I would not shoot if I was hunting with any of the others above.

My point is, what you are hunting with is often determines if you will take a shot or not.
If I hunted deer with a .22 C.F. I would not be able to take shots at a lot of deer that I see. I mostly hunt with a .264 Win. Mag.(140 grain pills) and there aren' t too many deer that I see that I could not nail if I wanted too. I' ve probably shot more at under 100 yards than over. But I have shot a couple that were way out yonder.

Robin

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Duffy you hit on one of the problems!!!!!
Yes at 25 yards you can take a deer with just about anything! One of the problems is that " Good Ole Joe." always sees deer at 25 yards, so he' s hunting with his trusty .22 CF, see' s a good deer at 2, 300 yards, so he flings a ' Hail Mary!" (#1 No discipline!) Deer trots off unscathed, Joe shrugs it off " I musta missed" , and goes home. Buck runs a mile, suffers a week, and dies, trophy ruined!!!! (Not to mention the reputation of Sportsmen everywhere ruined)!!!!!!!!
Just one of the possibilities! Still looking for ONE GOOD reason to use a .22!!!!!!

RE: Small bores for big game
 

I agree Jag,its not the picture perfect shots that worry me when taken by experienced shooters that know their guns and pass all questionable shots.Its the excited hunters that don' t quite have that level of self discipline and shooting ability that get offered a shot of less than perfect position and distance,that gives me cause to question using a 22CF with soo many good alternatives out there with very little added recoil to deal with.

woods

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Good reasons

Confidence with your rifle. Some people have alot with thiers especially with neck or head shots.

Availability. Some people like uncles of mine really don' t have the money to buy alot of guns. And want a gun that does all. These guys are drug around by thier wifes. These guys make 8 dollars an hour in a lumber mill. And have 4 kids. Buying another gun is out of the question. And some people don' t like guns as much as us. A guys sold me a used medallion that was in ment shape and shot subMOA groups. I asked him why did he sell this? He said I only need on rifle and didn' t see the purpose of two. I don' t know about you guys but when I get a shooter, I keep it for life. Hey different strokes.

I would say a huge part of it for some of these guys is bragging right. Alot of my kin are very competitive. They like to boast alot. They call me constantly during turkey season telling me every bird they bag and tell me you don' t need 3" shells to do it. Makes them fell better about thierselfs, knowing they bag more than thier bigshot cousin or nephew with 30 guns.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

For some one that could only afford one rifle a dual purpose that could take big game as well as varmints would make more sense.Bragging rights is probably the single biggest motivator and a hunter that needs to use a 22CF to shoot their deer so others take notice have missed the point on ethical hunting altogether.I guess these same guys would want to shoot their elk and moose with a 243 also.

woods

RE: Small bores for big game
 

I have been kicking around the .22cf for big game hunting lately. But lets not forget that braggin rights about bore size works both ways.

RE: Small bores for big game
 

Woodseye hit the nail on the head!!!! If a guy wants to hunt deer with an Elephant gun and brag about it that is fine if he can shoot the gun. He is not risking crippled game to inflate his ego. He may brag about his ability to shoot the big camons, carry heavy rifles all day and more but he is not trying to show off his dead eye ability at the expence of a living creature. Way back I said if you can not handle the tool necessary to do the job right then do not do it. Well the guys with the big guns go to the extreem but they get the job done, and fast! You might be suprised, but the guy with the .375 H&H will do less meat damage to his deer then the guy with a .300 Win Mag. No point in arguing here I have hunted deer with both, well it was a .308 Norma, alittle hotter then the .300 Win but not much, and my .366 which has 5775 foot pounds of energy with a light load. As the old Chinese saying goes. " It is not to say that one can not get the job done with a small tool, It is to say that the chance of satisfaction is greater with the larger tool."

RE: Small bores for big game
 

The way I was told (not to say that this is 100% true, but sounds right) is that the smaller the bullet, the more damage it does, causeing the animal to die quicker. It explodes inside the animal causeing internal bleeding. (now a 17 caliber would probably explode before it entered the animal, so I would most definetly never use a .17 Rim or centerfire at large game.) It could go both ways though, if the bullet causes internal bleeding, how could you follow a blood trail to the animal if its bleeding internally? ( this is if you shoot behind the shoulder). I know an experienced hunter that uses nothing but a 17 centerfire. He knows where to hit that deer to put it down in its tracks. He hits it in the neck or through the ear. I never known him to lose a deer . I would never use that small of a bullet to hunt deer. I disagree with him totally but he always tells me " this is to prove that I am a good shot, and experienced hunter" , he may be right, but what if he hits it and never finds it? In MD, the smallest caliber that is legal is a .223. I hear that virginia allows .22 hornets , but not exactly sure.