RE: 30-30 for deer
 

if you have not shot a new short mag then you have no idea why people are buying these new guns.for one thing the bolt pull is almost an inch shorter resulting in faster reloading.two the recoil is much less than that of the standard magnums.so much less that my wife will shoot my dads 300 short mag but not my 7mm rem mag.that is why people buy them and if you would read the articles in the magazines you would know this!

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I wouldn' t use a 30-30, not that its a bad round, but because I like other calibers over that one. I' ve used a 30-06 for years, as well as my 6.5x55 swed mauser....I know how they shoot....

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

the length of the stroke on the bolt is not normally a consideration for a person who picks his shot.i can count on one hand how many times i needed a quick second shot with a bolt action.futhermore,what is the purpose for going to a wsm when not gaining any flatter trajectory or knockdown?i am not debating the issue ,i am just trying to find any justification other than just wanting a new toy.i haven' t used a 30-30 in 30 years but there is no doubt in my mine i could kill as many deer as i wanted.i might have to move a stand or two to get inside 175 yds.i did kill several deer with a model 336 marlin until i changed to a 30-06.the reason i changed was because my shots were from 200-300 yards instead of 150 yds.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Horse feathers.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Ahhh yes, the ultimate " Hail Mary" of deer hunting!
Hunt with the 30-30 because 90% of the shots are inside 100 yards.
see a good deer at 2, 300 yards, fling ' em a " Hail Mary"
If you are lucky, you will find the deer,.................Or you will miss COMPLETELY!
If you are unlucky, the deer will suffer a long, slow death, or you will have a long, hard tracking job!!!!!!
I know, because I' ve tracked deer half the night, and ended up with a handfull of leg bones, because some idiot, using the " faithfull 30-30, did" nt know how to judge distance! (Not really uncommon, just flatter shooting guns have more room for error!)
I' ve also had friends miss trophy bucks, " kicking up dust in front of a deer!"
Because he used his faithful 30-30, because he did not like the recoil of his 30-06!
Again. the 30-30 is a SKILLED shooters gun, WITHIN 125 YARDS or so!!!
NOT A KIDS gun, or a GOOD gun at all! With all the GOOD choices available today, why choose the 30-30?

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

If he is a true idiot, I doubt he is smart enough to learn how to shoot at 2-300yds. with an ultra mag. Of course, he could get lucky and hit the deer, but he still has to make a good shot even with the mag.

That being said, a lot of people when they hear the term " ballistic table" think that they must be having beans for supper, and they don' t have any idea what their rifle is capable of or not capable of.

My only gripe is that some people talk like the 30-30 has to hit squarely broadside on the deer, or it will just riquochet off the thin skinned white-tail and put somebody' s eye out. What they don' t seem to comprehend is that not all hunters are pipeline watchers, and that some actually like to get in the woods on a rub line or travel route and wait for the Bucks who are too smart to step out on an open pipeline in the daytime. In that situation, the 30-30 can easily be a 100% success rate rifle that you can have full confidence in.

C. Davis

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I think every high power cartridge has its place. I primarily hunt with a .270, but I will not knock the 30-30. It does actually have some advantages and depending on where you live and the size of the game you are hunting the 30-30 might be suitable. I like the 30-30 because they are lightweight and that is a bonus if you are spending hours stalking deer. They have light recoil, which means you will shoot more rounds through it....hence becoming a more skilled marksman. And they are an all around fun gun to have.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Skimmed back over all the posts....

For those who actually post where they live, it seems those east of the Mississippi River condone 30-30' s for deer and for the most part, with one notable exception, those west of the Mississippi River condemn it. Suits me.

Also noted that the majority that do defend using the 30-30 for deer in the same breath mention they are NOW using something else for deer hunting --- something else that is inevitably more powerful and has more reach -- 270' s and 6.5mm' s and such.

Just pointing out what I see.

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I have 2 30-30' s a winchester model 94 made in 1947 that i have taken over 20 deer in the last few years with and a marlin 336 given to me by my grandfather. They are great guns and will definetly take deer. I took a large doe with mine a few years back at around 120 yards with open sights she dropped like i was using a .300. I really like the remington core-lokts in 170 gr. I finally retired the ol lever gun and got a model 700 in 7mm mag but the 30-30 is still my main back up gun because i know it is going to be there if i need it. Im sure if you did some research the 30-30 is in the top5 guns for taking the most game animals in history.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Good question.

1. Size.
With a sling, it makes for easy walks through thick brush. The barrel is no taller than the top of my head when slung across my back.

2. Caliber at short range.
In my opinion, it is better to have at least .30 caliber in the woods when you know your shots are going to be close. I would rather have the .30 than a .223, .243 or even my .270 when I can' t even see 100yds.

3. Velocity.
That' s right, I said velocity. Somewhere, someplace somebody came up with the 1,000 ft. lbs. of energy rule for minimum deer taking medicine. The 30-30 takes that 1,000 out to about 165 or so yards which is way farther than I need when I am trying to ambush a buck in the woods.
Another reason for the velocity advantage with the 30-30 is that it' s velocity is perfect for just about any bullet. Even the dreaded core-lokt performs perfectly at 30-30 speed, even at close range.

4. It shoots where I aim it.
I honestly don' t think I can miss when I shoot the Marlin.

So, if you ask me, if you are a woods hunter, I would say that there is no better gun. I think you would have to go to a .35 remington, .444 marlin, or a 45-70 government to even put up a good argument against the 30-30 for the type of hunting I mostly do.

C. Davis

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

C. Davis, you' ve given the best argument for the 30-30 yet!
I still don' t buy it though!!!!!
For the hunting you do, the 30-30 will suffice. However, having a .270, .308, 30-06 would be far better, if you happen to see a shooter at a longer range.
From your post, you seem to be a reasonable person. I' m sure you will admit that the 30-30 is NOT a novice' s. nor a kid' s gun! And really being honest, for someone out buying an " ALL-AROUND DEER gun, would you really recommend a 30-30?

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Frank,
For the type of hunting I do, I will go as far to say that it is the best gun.
That being said, you are right, I am limited to that type of hunting if I want to get all the benefits that I talked about in my post. I just happen to hunt that way most of the time, and I grab the Marlin every time without giving it much thought.
I think I had a nightmare one time about having to be limited to one gun, and which one it would be. My answer would be 30-30 marlin, and .270 bolt action, and my .50 cal. Hawken... I just refuse to be limited to one.

Now, If I were to recommend one gun for someone who could stand to only have one, I would tell them that they could get by with a .270 for all of their Whitetail needs.

Living in the great state of Texas as I do, offers a wide variety of whitetail hunting. I every now and then get to make it over to the hill country in Llano county, and under those circumstances the Marlin goes along for moral support, but the .270 gets to do all the work.

Frank, I know you know were Kountze Texas is. That is where I live. I drive to Beaumont to work every day. You should drive up sometime and see my 10 point I shot last year on our land off of Hwy.326 between Kountze and Sour Lake. Just got him back from the taxedermist. He was no match for the Marlin at 15 yards away.

C. Davis

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I don,t think anyone here is recommending the 30-30 as the perfect all around deer gun. Yes I am one of the supporters of the 30-30 for deer who dares to use something else at times. Anyone who doubts that thousands of head have been killed by GOOD hunters using a 30-30 had better get some more school-housing. As I said earlier if you can,t shoot or can,t limit yourself to the range it was intended for then don,t use the damn thing . For anyone else it is a good deer hunting tool when used properly. There is nothing I would rather carry in the dense woods or heavy cedar cover than the light fast handling lever action 30-30. When hunting open country like our prarie deer hunting where the average shot is 175 -250 yards I use the 6.5 mauser or the 257 Roberts with 100 grain barnes X bullets.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

C. Davis, sure I know where Kountze is! We go through there on our way to the deer camp all the time! There are some really good hunting spots between Sour Lake and Kountze. I have hunted on two good places just north of you. One was Village Mills, good deer, too many poachers! The other place was between Wildwood and Warren, that was a great East Tex lease! Just that nothing lasts forever! We ended up losing the place. We' ll have to get together sometime!

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I HAVE A WINCHESTER MODLE 94 AE BLACKSHADOW W/ A 24INCH BARREL I HAVE SHOT DEER OUT TO 250YARDS AND BLEW UP A WOODCHUCK AT 300 YRADS. I AM 21 AND I' VE BEEN USING A 30-30 SINCE I STARTED DEER HUNTING 8 YEARS AGO, THE 30-30 IS THE ONLY DEER GUN FOR ME ALL THOSE 30-06,270,7MM R NOTHING BUT THUNDER MAKERS IN THE DEER WOODS.
PAT

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Fits the profile to a " T" .

Has talent, got it as a kid, has been empowered by it, never had anything else, and.... its the best.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

This is the kind of BS that causes wounded deer.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

With a drop of probably over 20 inches that would be some fine shooting!

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Fine shooting or youthful stupidity?

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

If he made the shot maybe both. If he just thinks he made the shot it could be a mistake. Either way, it is extremely ill-advised to stretch a 30/30 to 250 yards for a deer.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

On the left hand side of your keyboard is a button called caps lock, try turning it off sometime ;)

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I like the 30-30 for certain situations...and for certain people. HOWEVER, I got into an argument on this board with a moron a couple years ago that said he shot a RUNNING deer with a 30-30 at a distance like 250 yds.

I did the math and he would have had to have lead that deer by something like 15ft......and would have to have aimed like 2 feet high.

That is why I DO NOT argue calibers much anymore. It' s too embarrassing making people look like idiots. I' m a math teacher...and math doesn' t lie.

The 30-30 is a fine 100yd gun....maybe a touch further

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

THE .30-30 IS A HIGHLY EFFECTIVE 200-YARD, LIGHT BIG-GAME CARTRIDGE WHEN USED IN A SCOPE-SIGHTED RIFLE. IT' S AN OFTEN REPEATED FACT, BUT MORE BIG GAME IS SHOT UNDER 200 YDS. THAN OVER. WE' VE KNOWN THE .30-30 TO PERFORM WELL ON DEER, BLACK BEAR, ANTELOPE, ELK, AND MOOSE, AND YOU CAN' T ASK FOR MUCH MORE THAN THAT FROM ANY CARTRIDGE.

.30-30 AMMUNITION HAS VASTLY IMPROVED OVER THE PAST 100 YRS. CONVENTIONAL LOADS MAY HAVE THROWN A 160 GR. SOFT POINT AT 1970 FPS, BUT TAKE A LOOK AT WINCHESTER' S NEW 150 GR. POWER POINT, WHICH LAUNCHES LEAD AT A HIGHLY INCREASED 2,405 FPS. WHEN ZEROED AT 100 YDS, THIS BULLET IS ONLY 3.5" LOW AT 200, DEFINITELY FLAT ENOUGH FOR DEER. FURTHERMORE, IT STILL YEILDS ABOUT 1,000 FT. LBS. OF ENERGY AT THIS DISTANCE. ADDITIONALLY, PMC OFFERS A WICKED 150 GR. STARFIRE HOLLOW POINT, WHICH ACHIEVES 2,308 FPS, AND FEDERAL A 170 GR. NOSLER PARTITION AT 2,175 FPS. THESE DEFINITELY MAKE THE .30-30 A HIGH POWER RIFLE. -- THESE VELOCITIES ARE FROM A 24" BARREL, BUT LOSE VERY LITTLE STEAM WHEN COMPARED TO A 20" BARREL.

MY .30-30 IS MY FAVORITE DEER/BLACK BEAR RIFLE. SURE I HAVE OTHERS THAT FILL THE TAB NICELY (7MAG, 30-06, 45-70, ETC.), BUT THEIR EXTRA NOISE/RECOIL/MUZZLE FLASH/WEIGHT ARE NOT NECESSARY FOR DEER HUNTING.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Oh no! another argument about the old 30-30? Honestly where is this going? (the same place all the last ones went). It' s getting good though anyway.

I think elkamp knows my opinion of the 30-30. I have used my old 30-30 everywhere from south Georgia bean fields to North Carolina pinewoods and even up to Ohio for a while. I' ve used it to hunt deer and hogs. I knew my range and limitations and it did fine. Never had a deer do anything more than drop when I shot it with that gun. My choice of the gun was mainly due to that being the only rifle I had. Then I sold it to get a 30-06. The NEF handi rifle is cheaper than a marlin 30-30 and obviously has more options than the marlin does.

I wouldn' t use the 30-30 on anything bigger than deer sized game. But that is irrelevent to this conversation.

Bottom line is it works if kept inside it' s limitiations and works pretty fair too. If a guy doesn' t know what the limitations are on his gun or shooting ability he has no buisness hunting, Period. Guy' s shoot poorly with other guns too, it' s not the guns fault.

{conclusion} Different things for different folks. To use the " tool" analogy, just another tool for the box. I have tools I don' t use unless I just feel like it, but I still have and use those tools once in a while. Doesn' t make them a bad tool, just one that has been replaced with more effecient tools.

Just as a side note, as much as I " like" the 30-30, I know that if Marlin made a 30-06 with the same price as thier 30-30, they would sell like hot cakes and make the 30-30 all but extinct.

And oops, I forgot what the original question was for a while. Football, if you want to use a 30-30, it will work but know your limitations. There are better options available, but know your limitations.

NEF makes a good gun. I bought my last one (30-06) at wallyworld for right at 200.00 dollars. Good luck.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Sooo many people shouting[:o]

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Ballistically, I am thoroughly underwhelmed.

However, given such favorable characteristics and powerful pedigree as outlined above, I' m surprised it didn' t make the " cut" for your " Minimum Battery For North America:

Never Go Undergunned,
EKM

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Maybe this will help?

http://hunting.about.com/library/weekly/aa063098.htm

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Kodiak,
Are you back on leave from the Air Force?
EKM

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Elkampmaster,
Thanks for asking, I' m suprized you remembered! But no, I leave for basic September 2nd (just a few weeks away:D). I signed up last year under delayed enlistment, I wanted to work one last season at my job here before I went in. I' m excited about going, the only bad thing is I' ll miss hunting season this year.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

When pigs fly. No way you will get close to 2400 fps out of a 20" barrel. Furthermore the bullet has the ballistic coefficient of a brick. Sighted at 100 yards you are still dropping 8" at 200. You can' t polish a turd.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I found this article on the web. I personally would not sight in my Marlin to be a 200 yard gun like this article mentions, but it is interesting anyway.
I know my shots are going to be a lot closer than even 125 yards (last years two were under 20 yards), and I like my gun sighted in so I hit the hair I am aiming at on the side of the deer.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/30-30Win.htm

C. Davis

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

frizzler' s entire social agenda revolves around disputing posts that members enter on this forum....what a boring, worthless way to spend a day!

i think you need a hobby.

for the past 2 1/2 years you' ve done nothing but argue against most of my postings, as well as many other members, often with vulgar quotes that do nothing but show ignorance (i.e....." you can' t polish a turd" , or whatever you wrote in response to my last posting)

you actually do get 2,405 fps from winchester' s 150 gr. .30-30 power point load, according to guns magazine (august 2001, hunting with the .30-30 today). i see no reason as to why a major magazine would fabricate information, other than to upset people like you, and even then, i' m sure they are too busy for such petty offenses.

and bye the way frizzy, it is only 3.5" low at 200 yds, not 8" .

i think you need to come to terms with the fact that:
1) the .30-30 is an excellent deer rifle out to 200 yds with modern ammo and scopes
2)and more importantly that you need to smile from time to time, and quit trying to prove people wrong...you are just a regular member, not a district attorney. we don' t always need to defend ourselves to you

oh, and FYI mr. district attorney frizzy: more often than not, your arguments are based on pure speculation/opinion and not fact, and therefore have no merit at all.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

I think the 30-30 gets a bad rap because there is so many old worn out 30-30' s that it gives the whole caliber a bad name. I don' t know anybody that has bought a new 30-30 in the last 20 years, and everyone has an old worn out 30-30.
Just my 2 cents.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Alright, enough of this beating around the bush! This " conversation" is getting no where. Lets discuss a topic that will really get somewhere like the .223 for deer, or the 30-30 for elk! Or how about, what' s the best all around rifle for big game?;)

Seriously, I think we can all agree that any legal deer hunting rifle will work for deer as long as the person using it knows it' s (and his) limitations and the rest is all personal preference. I mean, the 30-30 will kill deer (I know I' ve done it) so it' s got a short range and fairly low on power compaied to most deer rifles, so what? It' ll still work just fine inside 100 yards on any deer you put in front of it.

Now the fact that there are other, better (and probably cheaper) choices available is irrelevent to the fact that the 30-30 (and all other legal deer rifles) will work inside it' s limitations.

Footballplaya, if you like the idea of the 30-30ish rifles, may I suggest the 35 remington? It' s got a better reputation.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

ths78, I have a hobby. I study ballistics. You should look into it sometime and you will find it impossible to sight in a low ballistic coefficient bullet travelling at 2300 (which is what you will get, if that, out of a 20" barrel) at 100 yards and have it be 3.5" at 200. Its called physics. Do the math.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

The 30/30 Model 94 was my first hunting rifle and of course at the time everyone said it was the end all of rifles. I then bought a 25-06 my next season and progressed steadily upward and never looked back. The 30/30 is way too specialized for todays deer hunting...it is at best a 75-100 yard deer rifle in thick and semi-open woods and that is it. Exceed that range and there many more flexible choices to use . What do you do if you have to sit on a clearing or happen to see a nice buck grazing at the edge of a field 200 yards away? I am guessing most that took this ill advised shot used Kentucky windage and wounded deer. It has its place but I wish the 35 Remington had been better promoted because it is heads and tails better at the same effective range as a 30/30.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Then you don' t take the shot because you know you' re gun' s limitations.

Not ragging on you oldelkhunter, you even said it was an " ill advised shot" just using this quote as an example.

You have other options in this situation. You can try to get closer, or hope the deer gets closer to you, or try it again the next day and sit on the other end of the field. What if you see a good buck feeding 600 yards away and all you have is your old 30-06? It' s the same as seeing a buck at 200 yards with a 30-30. It' s out of range and a good hunter should accept that and not try to make the shot.

If you don' t have that amount of self controll, then you have no buisness hunting. Does that mean everyone will pass on that 200 yard shot with the 30-30? Nope, but it' s not the gun' s fault for that wounded/missed deer.

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

Excuse me Mr. Kodiakhuntmaster....I wouldn' t take the shot and I wouldn' t sit at a clearing with a gun that is not capable of making the shot... Most Yahoos would take the shot and as a result have a wounded deer on their hands. Please read my posts.....

RE: 30-30 for deer
 

BTW how many chances do you get at a really good buck...day after day I think not. YOu have to strike when the iron is hot. You have to accept the cartridge for what it is. A very limited deer cartridge.