WSM or SAUM????
 

I want 7mm either way.

Can anyone describe to me the difference/merits of these two cartridges.
So far I' m swaying toward SAUM.

Appreciate your help on this one.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

well , the 7mm wsm has a bullet weight varying from 140 gr. to 160 gr. with velocities from about 2990 ( fps ) for the 160 gr. to about 3200 ( fps ) for the 150 gr.' re , with the 140 gr. coming in at 3225 ( fps ) , and energy in the range of 3176 ( ft-lb ) for the 160 gr. to 3410 ( ft-lb ) for the 150 gr.re ,with the 140 gr. coming in at 3233 ( ft-lb ) ,

the winchester 160 gr. is said to have a bullet drop of about 11.8 inches at 300 yards when zeroed at 100 yards , it has a drop of about 42.6 inches at 500 yards when zeroed at 200 yards

the remington is loaded with a 160 gr. loading that has a velocity of 2960 ( fps ) and an energy at 3112 ( ft-lb )

the remington 160 gr has a drop of about 39.7 inches at 500 yards when zeroed at 200 yards

the winchester was introduced first , and remington introduced thiers about a half a year later , as for whose better , only you could decide that for yourself as no hunter handles his firearms or shoots exactly the same way but , i will add the winchester has made some excellent hunting calibers in the 7mm caliber and they always seemed to fail , where as remington has always seemed to dominate the success of the 7mm caliber :D:D:D:D

hope that was helpful , as i got the ballistic info from the remington , and winchester ammunition websites , and compared the same bullet weights :D:D:D

edited for spelling and omitions

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

If you buy a Rem SAUM be sure to get all the ammo and brass you can now. It won' t be around long. The WSM series has too big a head start and has a ballistic edge over the SAUM. There won' t be room for both. Actually I don' t see the big deal about either series myself. Just more hype.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

WSM. Good luck.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

SAUM Less recoil for more bullet speed?

Cartridge Rifle Weight Recoil energy Recoil velocity

.270 WSM (150 at 3000) 8.0 18.9 12.3

7x57 Mauser (160 at 2600) 8.0 14.3 n/a

7mm-08 Rem. (120 at 3000) 7.5 12.1 10.2

7mm-08 Rem. (160 at 2650) 7.5 15.2 11.4

7mm Rem. SAUM (140 at 3147) 8.0 18.8 12.3
7mm Rem. SAUM (160 at 2931) 8.0 21.5 13.2

7mm WSM (140 at 3055) 8.0 20.9 n/a
7mm WSM (160 at 2795) 8.0 22.4 n/a

7mm Rem. Mag. (140 at 3150) 8.0 19.1 12.4
7mm Rem. Mag. (160 at 2950) 9.0 18.2 11.4

7mm STW (160 at 3185) 8.5 27.9 14.6

7mm Ultra Mag. (160 at 3200) 8.5 29.4 n/a

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

i would go with the WSM becasue....

1). they seem to be here to stay

2). more firearms are chambered for the WSM' s

3). better selection of ammuntion ( for the non re-loader ).

plus i have never even seen any SAUM' s in amy of the gunstores i have been too.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Six of one - half dozen of the other.If your a Remmy man you will choose the SAUM,if your a Browning/Ruger/Winchester man you' ll probably choose WSM, if you like Savage you can pick either ;) The two are for all intents and purposes about the mirror image of each other and for that reason one will probably fade out with time.Which that will be at this point is hard to say,the 300 and 270 calibers appear to be dominating the WSM line right now but there doesn' t appear to be a clear cut winner yet in the 7mm line.True there are a lot more makers chambering for the WSM line and that coupled with ammo availability seems to point to the WSM line staying in the lead for the time being.Haven' t seen rifles and ammo at Wal Mart yet for the Remmy but they always have the WSM offerings.If there is one caliber however that Remington stands a chance of winning in the short mag wars with winchester on, it would be the 7mm because of their long standing 7mm mag success.If they stay in the fray and don' t concede to winchesters constant new developments in the short mag arena I think the winner in the 7mm short mags still has yet to be decided.I do however think the 338WSM when released will be another winner for winchester.Tim,your velocity figures are wrong in the recoil charts you posted,look at the info above in Whelens post for correct numbers.Less recoil and slightly less velocity for the SAUM rounds compared to the WSM' s.

woods

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

I think the SAUM will feed better than the comparable WSM...Last I checked at MIDWAY they had plenty of brass for both SAUM and WSM. I think the 7 SAUM will eventually win out because of Remingtons success with 7 mm cartridges in general.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

I have faced this dilemma also. I feel the WSM is here to stay. Nothing wrong with the SAUM. I myself consider them twins. I would pick the WSM. And plan on it some day

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

WSM...but how each of these fares against the 7 MM Rem Mag over the next few years? I don' t know. I think once the hoopla dies down, people will see that there are no big and significant differences between the 7 MM RM and the short mags. I would also seriously give consideration to the 7 MM Rem Mag in your deliberations.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Hype on both accounts, nothing more.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Oh, in the name of anything holy, can we quit it with this hype stuff. It gets old guys. What do you do you want out of a gun????????????????? We know its velocity, we know its dimensions, we know its trajectory. You take it, you fire, you hit something. Can we give it a rest for a week? Let people take the data and make up thier own mind.

Alacrity, got a good freind in Red Deer, Doug McDonald, you know em? Got a farm out there, he says. Figured it was a small enough place to know everybody.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Less shoulder on the SAUM.
Does it feed better?
This is important in short action.
Anyone compared the two

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Bigcountry, nope, haven' t met the guy.

Al

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Woodseye: This is where I got my figures.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/recoil_table.htm

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Hype is a bit overused at this site..everything but a 30/30 seems to be hyped by someone or another.


Tim, I had 2 300 wsm' s an a-bolt and a Model 70 SS out of the 2 the A bolt fed better and the model 70 was not the smoothest feeder. One of the knocks against ackley cartridges are the angles on those things and the same rules apply to a fat cartridge that has a steep shoulder angle like the WSM' s have. On the other hand you would be hard pressed to find a less finnicky round to reload for and everyone I have seen as well as others at the gun club all shoot well, no complaints in that department .

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Fine, then for once let' s have some honest data. Let' s see why these things are the greatest thing since sliced bread on there own merits and not have some company ad exec pulling number out of his ass. Lets see how they stack up without underloading the " long" magnum cartridges. We won' t because Elvis has that data and is only sharing it with bigfoot.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Frizzellr, every gun is different. My best friend shoots a 300WM 165gr bullistic tip with Re22 and gets 3400fps with great accuracy. Is that normal, no, but he loads it way out. Got another friend that shoots WSM 180gr at 3200fps. Is this normal, no. But his primers aint' flat, and no signs of pressure signs. I don' t think for alot of us, its about the speed. I think most of us on here don' t care much about the speeds. But more with accuracy. I do notice when chronoing, the WSM, his have very consistent velocitys compared to my RUM. Very low Std Dev. Does that mean it burns more effietly? Maybe, maybe not. I haven' t seen by anyone thier load data that is that much far off from Hodgeson' s, or Noslers published data. Besides these cases above. As far as factory ammo, couldn' t tell ya, and really don' t care much.

I have asked several times for you findings or loads/velocitys. Not what you read, but yours, and haven' t seen it yet. Share your findings.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Bigcountry, this is a lot like, heck, just like the 7mm mag thing a while back.

Bottom line, if you' re picking between a 7mm rem mag and a 7mmSAUM/WSM, you' re only hurting yourself to get the WSM/SAUM. If you don' t reload, factory ammo is MUCH more expensive, usually 50-75cents more per box for the same loading, if you do reload brass is more expensive, it eats more powder, and brass life is lessened because of increased internal pressure, and either way, the WSM/SAUM kicks harder to do the same job.

I don' t mean to say a person shouldn' t buy it at all, it' s a great round and it is always great to see new things brought to the table, but it' s when people go replacing guns or opting for the WSM' s instead of say a 7mm rem mag or instead of a .300win mag JUST BECAUSE it is ' more powerful' , then I get a little bothered by all the hype. People are so caught up on everything being new, and being stronger, faster, bigger, they sometimes forget that they just don' t need it and that 100fps more on 3300fps isn' t much of a change. Like I said about the 7mm mags in general, they aren' t as efficient at hunting as say a .30-06, you get the same range and same game capabilities, but the 7mm makes you pay for it more in recoil, for no reason, I know it has to kick harder to produce more energy, I' m a physics major (Chem. Eng. and Physics double major actually), but why do I need my gun to kick harder just to kill a deer at 200yrds. You should never be undergunned, but there' s no reason to make yourself be overgunned either.

If you just want a WSM/SAUM because you want something new, and it' s what you have a taste for, then I' d get the WSM, because as others have mentioned, I' ve yet to see a gun chambered for the SAUM and have only once EVER seen a single loading of SAUM, which was sitting beside 5-7 WSM loadings, they just aren' t taking off, everyone thought of them as copy-cats when they released them, and no-one picked them up, it was quickly and painfully obvious that they just wanted a piece of the action and didn' t want left behind, they released the loading within the next year, and weren' t able to increase the performance.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

I bought my 300WSM not because of " hype" or because its the newest whizzum, but because it did something the other 300mags just couldn' t do.................fit in a nice little short action rifle that I liked.It has fed faultlessly,been very accurate,ammo has been available at Wally World for $19.95@ box,and it had a 24" barrel.Yes...........I admit it was an ugly ol' Savage ;)but hey the most feed problems I' ve seen on the forums concerning short mags has been with earlier winchester and remington rifles and its only been with a couple rifles.I have zero complaints so far and like my short mag a lot,I would however consider that Remington is in this game albeit a little later than Winchester and will no doubt make and chamber the SAUM' s for a good spell even if they are never as popular as the WSM' s.I do believe the guys that are dismissing them as marketing hype have to realise that they are selling well and aren' t going anywhere but in a lot of gun cabinets.Remember all the dire predictions about the 7mm Remington magnum and its one of the top used calibers now and how about the belted 300Winchester(it will never last!)? They' ve been like a shot of geritol in the ailing shooting industries arm at a time when nothing new was even on the horizon and it needed the renewed interest.


woods

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

The 7mm WSM falls between the .280 Rem and the 7mm Rem Mag. The 7mm SAUM is just behind the 7mm WSM.

Look at a reloading manual and you will see that there is not a lot of differeance between the .280 Rem and 7mm Mag.

If we are basing the need for 7mm WSM on because it fits in a short action, albeit a modified one. Then Winchester should have brought back the .284 Win and had a slightly longer magazine that custom gun makers use for this round.

I hate to say it, because the .284 bullet is so legendary, but it seems that we are starting to have too many 7mm cartridges and some will have to go away.:(

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

Nomercy, I am not a engineer major anymore because I have already done that 12 years ago also finishing my BS, and MS, and been in the real engineering world in that time period. So I also am a student of dynamics, and thermodynamics but use it everyday in the real world. But really all of that doesn' t matter here, because Most of the people I bet on this page doesn' t need most . of the guns they got. Including me. But as a person on another page said best, Life isn' t about needs. Particularly not YOUR needs.

Reason, I mention my background also, was I do understand where your coming from. When I was in College in WVU, I was broker than a hammer, but always got my 2 or 3 deer with my bow, and one with my good ole 270. So money was extremely important to me. Thats right, the price difference between regular 270 brass, and 7mmWSM brass would have been a big decision in me buying one gun or another. I couldn' t afford a gun if I wanted one. But thanks the good Lord, I have been fortuneate, beside that ex wife of mine, to be able to afford some more elaborate calibers and bunch more of them. I was thinking while in college, boy, when I finally do get out to the real world, I am going to have one of everything. I have had a fasination with shooting and guns since I was a little boy. Since then I toned that down a bit putting my attention more on other things like home upgrades, boats, etc. But still love guns.

I won' t go deer hunting with anything but my slug gun in required areas, or my 270, or my new 308win medallion now. But will take the RUM when going Moose hunting, or anything super long range.

So yea, I want one just because I am bored with regular calibers. And I love shooting/reloading more than hunting, believe it or not. One day, I hope you get ya a great job in the engineering field and don' t worry so much about paying that extra 10cents a round for powder or whatever for brass. I bet in the future that stuff will be miniscule compared to the alimony payments and the once a week disaster like water heaters going up, or sink holes in the yard. Good luck in your studies, and good luck with Thermodynamics. That @#$#% course about killed me. One thing that sticks out in my head about Engineering school.

RE: WSM or SAUM????
 

I like the .270 WSM the best!! If I was going to get the .300 I would stick with the Win Mag, not enough diffrence to move up to the WSM in the .300.

The only 7Mag I like in the ultra mag' s is the Remington 7mm Ultra Mag, otherwise if you dont use this get the 7mmRem Mag....

10 years on and I am still a fan. SAUM. Although ammo brass is hard to find.