getting your gun rights back after a class d felony dui
12-03-2009, 04:24 PM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
I hear ya with the multiple offenses and agree, least here in IL it use to be you would get 1 dui and after that your lawyer would've taught you how to avoid getting another, certainly after 2 getting a 3rd should be pretty darn tough. Anyone I ever talked to who "got" a dui typically beat it by not blowing, actually everyone I've talked to who did not blow, beat it, vs. everyone who blew was convicted.
I think a kid, ie young adult who has 1 mark on his record in his entire life when he's 19, and is now 30+ without another mark shows you what kind of person you were dealing with. Not everyone who gets caught/convicted of something is a career criminal who has been committing crimes for years and just hasn't been caught. People make dumb mistakes and get a serious shot of reality and learn from their mistakes.
But I suppose a laws a law and regardless of how/why you break it, too bad, and you can always bowhunt...least for now that is, and carry pepper spray perhaps for those big bears or intruders?
I think a kid, ie young adult who has 1 mark on his record in his entire life when he's 19, and is now 30+ without another mark shows you what kind of person you were dealing with. Not everyone who gets caught/convicted of something is a career criminal who has been committing crimes for years and just hasn't been caught. People make dumb mistakes and get a serious shot of reality and learn from their mistakes.
But I suppose a laws a law and regardless of how/why you break it, too bad, and you can always bowhunt...least for now that is, and carry pepper spray perhaps for those big bears or intruders?
I totally agree with you. There are cases where the punishment doesn't fit the crime. I would consider those to be cases where it should be possible, but I still feel that if we do allow those (sadly exceeding more numerous) cases where the punishment does not fit the crime get their rights back for firearms then it just gives those people where the punishment doesn't fit the crime in the other directions (too light of punishment) and others a way to get theres. We've gotten off on a tangent here. In this case, I think the punishment does fit the crime and its therefore ok with me that a person who has 3 dui in 3 years cannot own or possess a firearm.
12-03-2009, 06:19 PM
#22
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY METRO AREA
Posts: 294
Its kind of strange that alot of you feel that a person with three DWI should be barred from owning a firearm forever when you consider that DWI are completely unrelated to firearm safety. What are the chances that this guy would go on a drunken rampage and injure someone with a gun? The fact is that this idiot will most likely kill someone or many people by driving a car while drunk and HE WILL get his driving license back. Everyone is willing to give these idiots a second chance to drive again, a potential weapon much deadlier than any gun and a mere privilege not a right, yet mention firearms even among gun owners and its no mercy whatsoever. Support for such double standards will only hurt all of us. Pretty soon a parking ticket will prohibit you from owning a gun if we continue along the current status quo. How many felons are driving tractor trailers? Who would propose prohibiting such behavior unless it had something to do with driving?Just think the same logic should be applied to firearms. Geez, a drunken nut case standing on the observation deck at the Empire state building with a handful of marbles is far more dangerous than this guy with a deer rifle but they haven't instituted a nics check at the entranceway yet. Just an opinion.
12-03-2009, 06:58 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
[quote=nyorange;3518986]Pretty soon a parking ticket will prohibit you from owning a gun if we continue along the current status quo. [quote]
Not likely.
3 DUIs in one year? What an extraordinary example of self-control and discipline, not to mention respect for the law. And you wish this person to retain firearms?
The headline reads, "The victim had been arrested three times last year for DUI. Law enforcement officials have yet to rule his gunshot death as a suicide or as accidental."
Years back, a friend's teenage son and a buddy decided to tie one on while the parents were away. Oh, and go hunting the next morning. Somewhere in the drunken stupor, the buddy shot my friend's son in the head with a hunting rifle. He, of course, died.
Nah, but alcohol is only dangerous if you drive.
Think again.
Not likely.
3 DUIs in one year? What an extraordinary example of self-control and discipline, not to mention respect for the law. And you wish this person to retain firearms?
The headline reads, "The victim had been arrested three times last year for DUI. Law enforcement officials have yet to rule his gunshot death as a suicide or as accidental."
Years back, a friend's teenage son and a buddy decided to tie one on while the parents were away. Oh, and go hunting the next morning. Somewhere in the drunken stupor, the buddy shot my friend's son in the head with a hunting rifle. He, of course, died.
Nah, but alcohol is only dangerous if you drive.
Think again.
12-03-2009, 08:26 PM
#24
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY METRO AREA
Posts: 294
" DUIs in one year? What an extraordinary example of self-control and discipline, not to mention respect for the law. And you wish this person to retain firearms?"
No, but I do not wish them to be barred forever from owning one without proof that they will forever be a danger.
"Somewhere in the drunken stupor, the buddy shot my friend's son in the head with a hunting rifle. He, of course, died."
There will be always be a sob story, but you can't make law on an individual basis. You should also realize that the tragedy you mentioned would of still happened. Millions of gun owning and non gun owning idiots get drunk everyday and they are not prohibited from owning firearms. Barring some guy from owning a firearm "forever" because of a DWI will not make us safer and will certainly not stop tragedies like the one you mentioned. Your friend's son died because they got drunk and did something stupid, he could have just as easily been pushed off a roof by his drunk friend. The point is it had nothing to do with the gun but the behavior. Barring firearm ownership "forever" for a dwi wouldn't have prevented the tragedy.Lots of drunks in the world who never had a DWI or run in with the law.
"Nah, but alcohol is only dangerous if you drive".
Likewise, it is not only dangerous when you own a gun and I am 100% certain that your friend's son's buddy is still driving a car. Why do we allow him to drive a car, where there is a much greater statistical chance that he will hurt someone again,yet the world be damned if a DWI convict owns a gun?
"Think again."
Oh yeah, thats exactly what i thought. I was going to ask my doctor to take a few swigs before he operate on me this weekend since I thought it would be okay since he wouldn't be using a gun or driving a car but now I may reconsider that request. You can't eliminate danger and stupidity thru legislation.
And I obey laws because I have respect for other people and their safety which the laws only symbolize and guide us in doing, not because I respect the law in and of itself. My respect for the law ends when I no longer feel it is actually making anyone safer.
No, but I do not wish them to be barred forever from owning one without proof that they will forever be a danger.
"Somewhere in the drunken stupor, the buddy shot my friend's son in the head with a hunting rifle. He, of course, died."
There will be always be a sob story, but you can't make law on an individual basis. You should also realize that the tragedy you mentioned would of still happened. Millions of gun owning and non gun owning idiots get drunk everyday and they are not prohibited from owning firearms. Barring some guy from owning a firearm "forever" because of a DWI will not make us safer and will certainly not stop tragedies like the one you mentioned. Your friend's son died because they got drunk and did something stupid, he could have just as easily been pushed off a roof by his drunk friend. The point is it had nothing to do with the gun but the behavior. Barring firearm ownership "forever" for a dwi wouldn't have prevented the tragedy.Lots of drunks in the world who never had a DWI or run in with the law.
"Nah, but alcohol is only dangerous if you drive".
Likewise, it is not only dangerous when you own a gun and I am 100% certain that your friend's son's buddy is still driving a car. Why do we allow him to drive a car, where there is a much greater statistical chance that he will hurt someone again,yet the world be damned if a DWI convict owns a gun?
"Think again."
Oh yeah, thats exactly what i thought. I was going to ask my doctor to take a few swigs before he operate on me this weekend since I thought it would be okay since he wouldn't be using a gun or driving a car but now I may reconsider that request. You can't eliminate danger and stupidity thru legislation.
And I obey laws because I have respect for other people and their safety which the laws only symbolize and guide us in doing, not because I respect the law in and of itself. My respect for the law ends when I no longer feel it is actually making anyone safer.
12-04-2009, 02:14 AM
#25
Banned
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 824
I believe its a matter of behavior. In VA you can't own a gun if you've been convicted of domestic abuse.
"Really your Honor, I wasn't going to kill her. Just wanted to smack her around a bit"
3 DUI's in 3 years means he was CAUGHT 3 TIMES. So how many times did he get away with it? Probably not enough to be sober to hunt, thats for sure.
"Really your Honor, I wasn't going to kill her. Just wanted to smack her around a bit"
3 DUI's in 3 years means he was CAUGHT 3 TIMES. So how many times did he get away with it? Probably not enough to be sober to hunt, thats for sure.
12-04-2009, 02:41 AM
#26
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location:
Posts: 647
nyorange... I agree with you that a car is just as deadly, if not deadlier than a gun. To be fair to those of us who apparently "support a major double standard" the person who started this thread didn't say anything about whether this person should or should not have his licence. If they had I would have answered them that he shouldn't be able to get his lincense back or any of privilage that would put him in a situation that is potentially dangerous to others. I personally don't drink just because my family caries "the gene" and I've seen what violent drunks are capable of. Because of this I agree with you though, its a complete double standard.
12-04-2009, 03:01 AM
#27
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
I believe its a matter of behavior. In VA you can't own a gun if you've been convicted of domestic abuse.
"Really your Honor, I wasn't going to kill her. Just wanted to smack her around a bit"
3 DUI's in 3 years means he was CAUGHT 3 TIMES. So how many times did he get away with it? Probably not enough to be sober to hunt, thats for sure.
"Really your Honor, I wasn't going to kill her. Just wanted to smack her around a bit"
3 DUI's in 3 years means he was CAUGHT 3 TIMES. So how many times did he get away with it? Probably not enough to be sober to hunt, thats for sure.
If your right to own firearms is THAT important to you, don't become a felon. Very simple.
12-04-2009, 10:27 AM
#28
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: NY METRO AREA
Posts: 294
Re read the post again and would like to apologize for the tone it started to take. All of you have good points and are entitled to your opinions. I would not want to see someone like that with a firearm, just think that maybe at sometime in the future he should have the option of at least attempting to regain his rights.
Anyway, off to the hunting grounds in about two hours. Expecting a light dusting of snow tommorow up[ near 3C in NY. Expect to fill the freezer with meat since I already got my buck. Best of luck to all.
Anyway, off to the hunting grounds in about two hours. Expecting a light dusting of snow tommorow up[ near 3C in NY. Expect to fill the freezer with meat since I already got my buck. Best of luck to all.
12-04-2009, 11:01 AM
#29
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Coralville, IA. USA
Posts: 3,802
I agree with those on the side of denying him reinstatement of rights. Folks really don't just get a felony rap by making a little "oops" mistake. Even if you do commit a low grade felony by "accident", 9 of 10 times you're going to be able to plead down to a misdemeanor if it's your first offense. This guy got popped for DUI THREE TIMES! That's no "whoops" mistake. This guy is obviously an alcoholic, which one reason in itself to question his fitness to possess a deadly weapon, but he also has established a history of EXTREMELY BAD JUDGEMENT! I can tell you that I've gone out and gotten pretty drunk in the past, but I've always had the presence of mind to pre-plan my ride home or to find a ride/call a cab. This guy obviously didn't care, and it's a miracle that he didn't kill somebody because I can assure you that he drove drunk far more times than he got caught for it. Give this guy back his rights to own a deadly weapon after only one year of supposed sobriety? I don't think so, and I very seriously doubt that any Judge or Governor will grant any such request at this point, and rightly so.
That said, I don't necessarily think that a person who commits a felony is always beyond redemption. If this guy had been stone cold sober for 10+ years, and had a number of sworn affidavits to that effect from those who know him, then I think that his request would be worthy of consideration and probably ought to be granted. But just one year sober? He could relapse tomorrow. Same goes for other non-violent felons. If you embezzled $50k from your employer, you're going to prison and will be a felon, and as a result of your demonstrated poor judgement/behavior you ought to lose your gun rights until you've had the time to prove that you're rehabilitated and that you're capable of sound judgement. Folks do change. Heck, I did a few things as a teenager that might have made me a felon, too. I was lucky not to get caught, but now I'm older and realize how stupid those choices were and don't do stuff like that anymore. The arsonist co-worker I mentioned before hasn't done anything since that one offense, which was 35 years ago. He's proven himself worthy of restored trust in my book, but one year isn't enough time after a felony beef to prove oneself trustworthy again IMO.
Mike
That said, I don't necessarily think that a person who commits a felony is always beyond redemption. If this guy had been stone cold sober for 10+ years, and had a number of sworn affidavits to that effect from those who know him, then I think that his request would be worthy of consideration and probably ought to be granted. But just one year sober? He could relapse tomorrow. Same goes for other non-violent felons. If you embezzled $50k from your employer, you're going to prison and will be a felon, and as a result of your demonstrated poor judgement/behavior you ought to lose your gun rights until you've had the time to prove that you're rehabilitated and that you're capable of sound judgement. Folks do change. Heck, I did a few things as a teenager that might have made me a felon, too. I was lucky not to get caught, but now I'm older and realize how stupid those choices were and don't do stuff like that anymore. The arsonist co-worker I mentioned before hasn't done anything since that one offense, which was 35 years ago. He's proven himself worthy of restored trust in my book, but one year isn't enough time after a felony beef to prove oneself trustworthy again IMO.
Mike
